Author Topic: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!  (Read 512 times)

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Re: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 09:17:34 am »
Good luck and lots of sleepy-baby vibes for you :)


Offline helbk

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Re: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2018, 19:43:03 pm »
So Day 1 is complete. I think it went well but would you mind looking at the attachment for me to see if i'm on the right track? Just looking at todayís record obviously. I hope thats not asking too much...

 I used 'walking outside' symbol to record the training efforts, sp as an abbreviation for shhpat and m for mins. Hand means hand placed firmly on arm (she sleeps on her side). I also did a short wind down and a bedtime routine before sleeps (as you can see she'll need a dreamfeed as didnt take much before bed)

She really struggles with habitual waking or transitions around the 30 min mark. I dont think this is down to OT as I basically watched her like a hawk all day! One thing I wasnt sure of was when to start recording sleep from. Her eyes would flutter for up to 15mins sometimes falling asleep, but I didnt know whether to count sleep from when eyes stay closed and past the jolting or not.

Any pointers for me to pick up tomorrow to continue on the right track?  Thanks!

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Re: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2018, 14:38:06 pm »
Could you post your EASY times as they happened rather than as an attachment please?  happy to have a look.
something like this:
WU (wake up in the morning) 7.00
E
A 1hr
S 8.00 - 8.40 tried to resettle
E
A 1hr
S 9.40
...and so on through to
BT (bed time)
and include any
DF (dream feed) or NF (night feed) or NWs and the times they happened
at each S time you can include a note of what happened if needed.


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Re: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 18:22:45 pm »
Thanks, will do as soon as I get to a laptop. Will have a think about how much detail to go into!

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Re: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2018, 20:56:05 pm »
Here we are, sorry if TMI!

FYI
Wind down = closing blinds, white noise on, song, swaddle and short sit as she starts squirming. I didnít include these in the times given for active settling below.
BT = Into nursery, dimmed lights, change and short massage, sit in chair to BF, then go into our room and do wind down routine.
I would continue shppat for 7-10 mins after her eyes closed for each sleep

Yesterday:
NF 00.21
NF 04.25
S 04.44-05.50 (Last 15 mins hand on, then shhpat but didnít work)
NF 05.50
S 06.07-07.44 (In arms to delay WU)
WU 6.52
E 7.36
A 1hr46 (inc E above and 33 mins to get to sleep - 3 PUPD, walking slowly around room, shhpat, finally falling asleep in bed)
S 8.39-9.10am - 31mins
A 40 mins of extending nap (hand on, shhpat, PUPD, walking around room, laying her on our bed to calm her, started nodding off on shoulder after 33 mins, in bed after 36mins but eyes flickered for a while
S 10-10.41 - 41 mins (kept hand on for approx. 20mins as a lot of jolts, stirred at 33m so put hand back on)
E 10am (short)
E 11.36am
A 1hr 28 (inc Es above and 20mins to settle, PUPD x2, calm after 5 mins, intermittent crying but calmed again after 10mins, shhpat in bed and eyes flickering for next 10 mins)
S 12.10-12.48 38 mins (stirred at 33mins, hand on but woke, fussy then pooed)
E 13.11
A (inc 21 mins on PUPD, dopey on shoulder after 7mins, put down, protest cry but calmed, shhpat and fluttering eyes for another 10mins)
S 14.28-14.58  30mins (hand on, shhpat didnít work)
A 40 mins settling (eyes closed around 18mins but lots of flickering so not sure how to count the sleep)
S 15.27-16.28  1hr (jolted awake at 18mins so hand on again for a while)
E 4.45pm
A 2hr11 (inc E above, tired signs at 5.30 but had to see to toddler)
E 6.07pm (very short)
A 20mins settling (shhpat, pupd x 5, calm in bed after 8 mins, intermittent fidgeting/whimpering so continued shhpat
BT 6.40pm
S 2hrs48
DF 21.28 (earlier as was going to bed)
S 22.08-01.29 3h20

TODAY
NF 1.30
S 1.50-4.30  2hr39
NF 4.30-5am
S 5-5.40am  40mins
WU 5.40am
E
A 1hr40 (inc E and 14mins shhpat, 2 pupd, in bed crying then calmed)
S 07.21-8.02  41mins (hand back on at 30min mark to pre-empt jolt, stirred at 38mins, shhpat, didnít work Ė happy)
E 8.25
A 1hr 51 (inc E above and 27 mins walking, fussing in pram before falling asleep)
S 9.53-10.34  40mins in buggy, dummy
E 10.49
E 11.47
A 1hr 39 (inc Es above and 4 mins settling, put down and protest cry, calm after shhpat)
S 12.14-12.49  35mins (stirred at 30mins, efforts to resettle didnít work)
A 30mins of extending nap (PUPD, crying a lot so moved around, calm after 5 mins, short protest when put down , calm for remaining 20mins, flickering eyes, bid of silent reflux)
S 13.20-14.25  1hr5
E 2.40pm
A 1hr 47 (inc E above and 15mins settling Ė angry crying for 10mins, finally calmed in bed, intermittent protest Ė OT after bath etc?)
S 16.13-16.55  42mins
E 5.15pm 25mls of breastmilk bottle
E 6.19pm
A 2hr18 (inc Es above and 39mins settling Ė in 10 mins almost settled on put down and shhpat but wind upset her. A lot of intermittent fussing, crying, pupd)
BT 7.13pm
S Watching this space

Offline helbk

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Re: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2018, 08:07:41 am »
Extension on the above

Nf at 10.30 (unusual)
Nf 1.16 (pattern)
Nf 4 (pattern)
WU at 5.15 (been like this for 1.5 weeks now)
Nf then co-sleeping/fed to sleep to get her to sleep more
S 6-7.15 (i think)

The Nfs are getting more frequent /same times, and the early wake up is really killing me as i'm basically not sleeping well from the 1am feed. I'm feeling pretty desperate. Is this the 4 month sleep regression? I'm really running out of energy

I'm wondering if husband/family giving bottles at night, or even 1 or 2 nights might help break the cycle. I'm on my knees so not sure how much I can carry on exclusively bf. I really need a break. I'm thinking of staying with my family for a week to get support, but would hate it if the change in environment undoes the training ive done
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 08:23:15 am by helbk »

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Re: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2018, 23:40:28 pm »
Sorry to hear you are finding it so difficult. It looks exhausting.
If you have family who can visit to support or who you can go and stay with then I'd do that. The most important part of this is your well being, happy healthy mummy is much better for baby than exhausted mummy. x hugs

There are a couple of places I found it tricky to understand your EASY but I can see overall you are trying to be consistent with A times and helping her learn to settle in the cot.
I wonder if you have tried a shorter A time of 1hr 30? Perhaps just see how she does on that because she did a bit better on an extended nap (broken nap but then sleeping 1hr) which could indicate she sleeps better when less tired.

There were a couple of places I wasn't sure why you were feeding again as it had only been an hour or so since previous feed and then you mentioned refluxing which could be because she was going down for her nap quite close after a feed, and I think I saw a place it looked like an E and an S at the same time although you don't mention feeding to sleep in your notes.  My only advice on this really is to just try to keep your E times consistent so that she has a good feed but not too close to nap time.

I'm hoping for you that you see some change in the next day or so. Good luck.


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Re: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2018, 07:07:03 am »
Thsnks for your thoughts. I think I might have fed because either the previous feed was short and lots of crying before s short nap so couldnt last longer or because i thought she was hungry as i was getting confused with all the short naps. Ill try to stick to roughly 3 hourly if thats correct? I did feed to sleep at 5am and co slept with her detaching on her own accord as i was so tired and also wanted to delay her WU. It happened again this morning and not sure how to tackle this. It confuses the pattern for the rest of the day i think.

I think i'm also getting confused with A times with not knowing how long to allow for all the settling. When you suggest trying to stick to 1,5hr A time is this including the wind down and settling?
The short naps are exhausting, so much work for such a short time!

I had day of a lot of protesting, she seems to get upset as soon as I swaddle her and doesnt seem to enjoy the sit down, crying almost as if she knows whats coming. I did have one win of a 1hr50 nap where i managed to extend her nap without having to pick her up. Took a lot of work tho to keep her sleeping! She really jolts around the 30min mark, is this an end of a sleep cycle do you think (tho shorter than 45mins) or OT? 

Ive done these few days intensively as ready wanted to see some substantial changes quickly. Ive realised this has probably meant shes not been getting enough sleep during the day. I'm also really thinking about your previous point of keeping naps consistent (out and about, in bed etc) and really hope I won't mess it all up when i have to start introducing more out and about naps. She's starting to take naps in pram but they're unreliable/short. I dont see how we're going to avoid some OT as won't be able to be as clockwork with the toddler in tow...

If i'm staying with my family for the week i'm wondering if they could help with settling so i can have a break? I know you mentioned it could take longer if hubby also involved, and wonder more so if its people she doesnt really know.

Thank you
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 07:10:03 am by helbk »

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Re: 3 day challenge, is it possible?!
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2018, 10:01:10 am »
I did feed to sleep at 5am and co slept with her detaching on her own accord as i was so tired and also wanted to delay her WU. It happened again this morning and not sure how to tackle this. It confuses the pattern for the rest of the day i think.
The no-cry sleep solution has some great guidance on how to break this association and get baby back into her cot, I'm afraid it takes some reading and I know you are short on time and energy at the moment. You could perhaps continue with the 5am F2S and co-sleep for now if you prefered and tackle this at a later date? Here's a link:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0

When you suggest trying to stick to 1,5hr A time is this including the wind down and settling?
Yes, you have to guess what time to start the wind down with the aim of having her asleep at the 1hr 30 mark.

I had day of a lot of protesting, she seems to get upset as soon as I swaddle her and doesnt seem to enjoy the sit down, crying almost as if she knows whats coming
Yes she is old enough to know what's coming and to protest it.  If she doesn't like the sitting part you could always skip that?  My DS didn't like to sit, I stood for WD.  When he was much bigger (and heavier) I talked him into sitting for WD because I was getting RSI in my wrist and elbow from carrying/holding him also had a bad back and it was causing me problems - this is obviously why Tracy suggests sitting as the WD ritual because babies get bigger and heavier...you can go with whatever is a bit easier for you all for now though whilst she is still little and change things up in the future when you really need to.

She really jolts around the 30min mark, is this an end of a sleep cycle do you think (tho shorter than 45mins) or OT? 
These jolts are quite normal. It can be her age, or her sleep cycle length or some OT. It's hard to know at this point really. You will need to HTTJ (hold through the jolts) until she can get through them herself.

If i'm staying with my family for the week i'm wondering if they could help with settling so i can have a break? I know you mentioned it could take longer if hubby also involved, and wonder more so if its people she doesnt really know.
If you feel the support would do you good then this is more important than LO being put down by other care givers.  Honestly you do need to take care of yourself.
One thing to check on first I suppose (for your own peace of mind, so that you know what to expect) is if the other caregivers will follow your plan to your satisfaction or if they will more likely resort to holding all the way through her nap and you will be upset when you find out?  You can't expect others to respond in exactly the same way you would but if everyone is on the same page regarding always responding to needs but aiming for independent sleep then you are more likely to feel better about visiting.
Another option for others to help out is for them to take LO during the A time instead, you sleep/rest while they care for LO and then you take over again for the WD and ST.
Some LOs actually go down better for other care givers, this is sometimes the case when Dads can put LO down but Mum can't (or vice-versa).  You could discover she goes down a breeze with others but still resists when you take back over, that's not really what you want but at least you'd get a break and LO would get some practice of falling to sleep in the cot instead of the sling.

it's not easy making these decisions and no one really knows how LO will respond until you are there.