Author Topic: 5.5 month can self soothe to sleep...but not at night  (Read 808 times)

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Offline BlueandPinkMum

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5.5 month can self soothe to sleep...but not at night
« on: February 19, 2018, 21:27:17 pm »
Partly due to having to rush back to my 2 y.o. toddler, bless her but 5 month old has had to learn to self soothe. At nap time she can do this without crying & goes to sleep. At bedtime I put her down awake and she goes to sleep. To help I do put 'calm waves' sound on and night light stars (non-moving).

However she will wake in the night (first wake up after 2hrs and then it's roughly every 2hrs after) crying, cries get louder and she gets more unsettled.

The calm waves sound stays on all night. The lights Inturn off but if keep the setting to 'on' then the default to colour change and the disco-effect just stimulates & wakes her.

I have tried just picking her up and singing, rocking. My husband has tried but only thkng that works is to breastfeed her to sleep (takes about 5mins and she's fast asleep).

I sleep trained my toddler at 9months with great success but he was never impossible to soothe unless given the boob! I am DREADING sleep training my daughter as she just gets more & more worked up until she's bawling.

What can she put herself to sleep in the day & at bedtime but not when she wakes...even if I pick her up and do the sing, rock, 'night night' routine?  ??? ???

Offline BlueandPinkMum

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Re: 5.5 month can self soothe to sleep...but not at night
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2018, 21:29:31 pm »
Sorry for grammer / spelling mistakes -typing while feeding during a said night waking!..

Offline becj86

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Re: 5.5 month can self soothe to sleep...but not at night
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 00:30:20 am »
A few questions spring to mind:
- what's her daytime routine? Can you write that our in EAS format, please? If there's not really one, just post a couple of days as they happened.
- do you have a way to soothe her? Have you ever done shush/pat? Does she take a dummy?
- have you tried going to her earlier rather than letting her get really worked up and seen if she will resettle more easily then?
- does anything change in her surroundings after she goes to sleep? eg. lights turning off (I get why, but can you leave them as they are when she falls asleep?), light from other rooms/hallway shining/not shining?, temperature?
- is this a new problem or has she never slept more than 2hr at a time at night since she was born?

Offline BlueandPinkMum

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Re: 5.5 month can self soothe to sleep...but not at night
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 09:06:17 am »
Her exact EAS routine isn't precise (with my son I did it & worked magically but I got too fraught with getting timings right, worked better 2nd time around to go with the flow and she's automatically got into the EASY routine!)

Average day:
Wake & E: 6am
A: 6.15am  (if not sooner -she is a speed eater)
S: 7.30am

E: 9.15am
A: 9.30
S: 11.15

E: 12.15
A:
S: 2pm

E: 4pm
A:
S:7pm

She has struggled to stay awake more than hour & half but I can often keep her up for 2hrs and she still goes down to sleep with no quibble (no over-tired fight) but after an hr & half awake she will spend her time yawning her head off.

After I put her down at night the only thing that changes is her light show toy -it can automatically turn on at first sound of cry from her but it goes to multi-colours and wakes her too much as opposed to the one orange colour she falls asleep to. I can't change this so middle of the night when I'm asleep she either can have no light or blackpool illuminations  ;D ;D

I have tried getting to her when first murmurs but anything I do, my presense stimulates her (maybe thinks I've come to get her) and then if I don't pick her up she gets worked up.
This is why the pick up put down or the shh-pat have not worked!

It's been like this since the 4 month sleep regression -she used to sleep few hours when younger. And will on occasion sleep from 10pm - 3am. So I know she can sleep through. 
Oh dear, not sure what the solution is, wondering if it's now habit..
She has started sucking her thumb to sleep (no dummy).
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 09:09:12 am by BlueandPinkMum »

Offline becj86

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Re: 5.5 month can self soothe to sleep...but not at night
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2018, 06:25:15 am »
Wake & E: 6amA: 6.15am  (if not sooner -she is a speed eater)S: 7.30amE: 9.15amA: 9.30S: 11.15E: 12.15A:S: 2pmE: 4pmA:S:7pm
Beautiful routine for a 3-4 month old baby. Not a 5.5 month old. She needs a serious A time increase and that will help immensely with your NWs. She's almost certainly just not tired enough for a proper night sleep. She'll also be miles easier to sleep train when she's got an appropriate routine.

after an hr & half awake she will spend her time yawning her head off.
Have you tried a change of scenery - different activity? This can be a sign of needing more stimulation too. Can also be a symptom of fluid in her ear and various other things so worth getting her checked by a doctor if you feel so inclined.

With respect to her daytime routine and nighttime sleep, the basic facts as I see them are:
- Your routine currently has 1.5-2hr A times and your baby is very used to those.
- Your baby is doing UT naps all over the place and the long nap in the afternoon is because she's finally tired enough to sleep a full nap
- Average A time at this age is 2:30-2:45

I therefore see a couple of options:
- Fix the routine in one big jump up to 2:30 A time which will likely result in some OT nap wakings that you can probably resettle and all should be sorted in a week or so. This option does have some OT involved and you have to stick with it or your days can get very messy very quickly.
- Increase A time by 15mins every 3-4 days and you should be just about caught up to where she needs to be in 4-5 weeks if I'm being optimistic. This option runs the risk of being very complex with OT/UT loops establishing and patterns not being reliable to tweak routine.

It's been like this since the 4 month sleep regression
This was the time to increase the A time gradually. I think you're in a big hole now and its going to take a big jump to climb back out again. I'm happy to hold your hand through that but you have to be ready to commit to it, stick with it for a potentially rough 3-4 days of resettling OT 30min naps.

Offline BlueandPinkMum

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Re: 5.5 month can self soothe to sleep...but not at night
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 17:05:04 pm »
Thank you so much for your really good response. It made me go 'oooh! Of course!' It's actually answered my main nagging query: 'why can my 5month old only stay awake for more than hr & half?!'
Trouble is she's such a big, healthy & happy baby that I didn't really see a 'problem' to fix it but now you explain that her night wakings are down to being under tired it all makes sense.
Simce sending my first message I have been making her stay awake for 2hrs and this afternoon it was 2hrs15 before she was mithering for a sleep so I'm confident in changing it up. I'll do it gradually over 3-4 days and fingers crossed it helps her night waking!


Offline BlueandPinkMum

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Re: 5.5 month can self soothe to sleep...but not at night
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 19:27:37 pm »
Changed my mind, given that I know she can stay awake for more than 2hrs if taken places (it was the park that did it the other day) then may as well change the A time in one go and deal with the OT wakings as they come. Hope it works! Thanks again!



Offline becj86

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Re: 5.5 month can self soothe to sleep...but not at night
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 20:57:57 pm »
I know she can stay awake for more than 2hrs if taken places (it was the park that did it the other day)
How did she go napping after that? If no OT waking at 30mins, you might not even have those... Be ready for them anyway, but don't be frightened of them, they're minor short-term OT recovered upon what is really a much easier resettle than you've probably been used to because she's actually tired.

Keep us posted :)