Author Topic: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes  (Read 4675 times)

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Offline Heatwils

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Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« on: March 01, 2018, 19:49:26 pm »
I'm sorry if this is repetitive but I couldn't find a specific post on this. My soon to be 5 month old only takes 30 minute naps. He can put himself to sleep and usually sleeps 5 hours then 3 then 3 more in the night. How long should he be awake between naps if they are only 30 minutes? I've tried every time possibility and they are still only 30 mins. And should his first nap be a smaller awake time? I breastfeed so don't follow a 4 hour easy since he eats every 2-3 hours during the day (and I can't extend it as I feed on demand not by the clock). Any help with wake times would be greatly appreciated. I can't figure out if he's over tired, or under tired or what?!? And by the evening he seems so tired he can't fall asleep which is a vicious cycle at bedtime! Any help or insight?!!

Offline Tabyria

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2018, 22:17:08 pm »
Following with interest as I have a similar LO (she's 15weeks though). I've asked for help to tweak A time.

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2018, 23:31:59 pm »
Generally speaking, average A time at 5 months is 2:15-2:30. 30min naps are usually OT but occasionally if a LO has a slightly shorter than normal sleep cycle, they can be UT.

Have you had any luck resettling?

After a good night like you've said he does, his first A time should be able to be the same length. There are babies who do better with a shorter first A time but often that's extending their night and their early night sleep is really poor. If you think about it, night sleep is most restorative, so he should be most able to stay away the 2:15-2:30 first thing in the morning.

Offline Heatwils

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 03:47:49 am »
So the A time is the same regardless of sleep length? That will save me a lot of headache!

I've had no luck resettling after 2 weeks but I'm inconsistent with the timing as I never know when to try. He sometimes yawns as soon as I get him from his nap and other times he doesn't show signs of sleepiness even after 2 hours. I will try putting him down after at least two hours depending on his mood and sleepy signs.

About the first nap after his morning wake up. If he's sleeping 1.5-2 hours is that not okay even if he went down after only 1.5 hours of A time? What's the difference between a first nap and continuing night sleep? Does that negatively affect his day?

Another question: how much night and day sleep is typical at this age? He goes down around 7 /730 and is up between 645 and 715.

Thanks for responding!

Offline Heatwils

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 03:50:38 am »
Sorry, I reread your post about the morning nap and you answered the question I asked about it in my second reply.

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 06:04:08 am »
Another question: how much night and day sleep is typical at this age? He goes down around 7 /730 and is up between 645 and 715.
That's pretty normal. Somewhere between 11 and 12 hr night is ideal, closer to 12hr now, will probably be closer to 11 by 6 months.

Offline Heatwils

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 12:32:29 pm »
so how much sleep during the day is normal?

One more question: my son was up last night after one hour of being put down and I did Pu pd for 1 hour and 20 minutes. My husband said that happened the night before too (I was away and he didn't tell me). Do you think this is because of the short wake time in the morning? Could it also be because of the poor sleeping all day? He tends to have a 15-20 min nap at 5 too.

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 13:08:33 pm »
When in the night was the long waking? It can be related to the short first A time.

Offline Heatwils

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 13:15:15 pm »
An hour after being put down for the night (he went to sleep on his own).

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 21:44:37 pm »
An hour after being put down for the night (he went to sleep on his own).
This is more usually overtiredness at bedtime, which is fairly understandable given the short naps through the day. That should be helped by longer A times and the consequent longer naps.

Offline Heatwils

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 21:50:30 pm »
Thank you so much for your responses and insight! Fingers crossed we figure this out!

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2018, 09:12:31 am »
Fingers crossed! Keep us posted :)

Offline Heatwils

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2018, 16:25:35 pm »
Update: baby no longer waking an hour after being put down at bedtime but all naps are now 30 minutes. I've done Pu pd for 3 weeks after naps and it doesn't make them longer and he just gets angrier and angrier.  I put him down awake and he falls asleep in seconds. Just can't get past these 30 min naps. Any suggestions?

Offline Heatwils

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2018, 16:40:27 pm »
I've increased wake times to between 2 and 2.5 hours (he can usually only handle 2 hours though).

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2018, 23:23:14 pm »
Has he ever napped 45min or 1hr+? Just wondering if he has a shorter sleep cycle than average and 30min is UT rather than OT. 2hr is quite a short A time for a 5mo... Usually an OT 30min waking, LO is pretty happy to have a hand on their back and some shushing/singing to resettle and resettles pretty easily. UT though is a different story and LO will tend to fight if you try to get them to go back to sleep once they've had a short UT nap.

Had you been doing PUPD for 2 weeks before you posted here? It really critical to the success of PUPD that the routine is appropriate for the LO before you start. Perhaps don't do PUPD for a week or two and just try a more gentle method of soothing.

Can you post an EAS from today/yesterday please?

Offline Heatwils

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2018, 23:15:23 pm »
He has napped longer than 30 mins. And he napped longer after I posted! But we still have the 30 min issue at times. I've been doing pupd for 3 weeks. He now goes down with no crying and falls asleep within seconds. Here is a synopsis of the past two days:
Wake up: 7:30
A: 730 - 10:00
S: 10:00-10:30
A: 10:30 - 1:00
S: 1:00- 2:00
A: 2:00 -4:15
S: 4:15 - 5:15
A: 5:15 -7:00
Bedtime - 7 ...two wake ups in the night
Wake up: 7
A: 7-8:40
S: 8:40 - 9:20 (he was yawning and super fussy so I put him down, he woke crying and yawning)
A:9:20 - 11:50
S: 11:50 - 12:25
Soothe for 20 mins and finally nurses to sleep as he was very very upset and wouldn't calm
S: 12:50 - 1:40 (woke up and yawned!)
A: 1:40 - 4:00 (didn't yawn again until 4)
S: 4:00 - 4:35
A: 4:35 - 7:00
Bed: 7
The E is at various throughout the day.

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2018, 01:27:41 am »
Alright, I think those 30min naps are UT, not OT.

See how this one is 30mins:
A: 730 - 10:00S: 10:00-10:30

then this one is 1hr after 2.5hr A time again:
A: 10:30 - 1:00S: 1:00- 2:00

And here again, 1hr nap after 2:15 A time:
A: 2:00 -4:15S: 4:15 - 5:15

When we see this kind of pattern with 45min naps, its time to push the A time a tad. I think your DS could do with an increase also. Perhaps to 2:45 in the morning though he may do well with a bit less in the afternoon - have a play with that. Keep in mind that if we're working on the theory that he's got a shorter sleep cycle, 2 cycles is restorative, so a 1hr nap is possibly equivalent to a 1.5hr nap for most babies. Not sure if there's any data showing that, but just an idea I have, so worth seeing what happens with your LO.

A: 7-8:40 S: 8:40 - 9:20 (he was yawning and super fussy so I put him down, he woke crying and yawning)
This nap would then be UT - tired enough to transition to the next sleep cycle but not enough to stay asleep. Waking mid-cycle can result in crying as its not a nice time to wake.

Does that make sense for you?

Offline Heatwils

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2018, 02:22:04 am »
Yes, this makes sense. But what about the yawning. Shouldn't I be getting him down at the first yawn because that is sometimes way before 2.5 hours? I also think he has shorter sleep cycles! I will try your suggestions and let you know. Thank you.

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2018, 03:08:05 am »
Yawning can indicate many things. Can be that he is ready for a change in activity - try that, often LO will pick up again when you change activities. Can mean fluid in ear(s) but usually comes with other symptoms.

Offline newbiem0m

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2018, 21:25:26 pm »
Sorry what's UT?
Is the sleep cycle always 40 mins long or will they get longer?
I noticed if i'm not carrying my baby, she'll wake up at 30 mins as well from her nap.
The only way to get full 1.5hr nap is if i'm carrying

dd is 8weeks old (7 weeks sleep time)

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2018, 08:58:16 am »
UT is undertired - not tired enough to transition from one sleep cycle to another.

Sleep cycle of 40min is typical, average but not all babies have the same sleep cycle length. Here's some information about that: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64515.0

The only way to get full 1.5hr nap is if i'm carrying
This is very normal for a baby of 8 weeks.

dd is 8weeks old (7 weeks sleep time)
What does this mean?

Offline newbiem0m

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2018, 01:36:44 am »
I remember reading in BW that the sleep weeks is calculated from due date and not birth date.
DD was 1 week early.

But if the baby is yawning, doesn't that mean she's tired?
Is it possible to yawn and want to sleep but still be UT?

We thought she was OT b/c she would get fussy
Can UT get fussy too but yawn and want to sleep?

What are some suggested activities to tired out an 8 week old....she can't run around or anything

Offline becj86

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Re: Wake times when your baby only naps 30 minutes
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2018, 08:02:38 am »
I remember reading in BW that the sleep weeks is calculated from due date and not birth date.DD was 1 week early.
It's more relevant if LO is born before the 'term' time of 37-40 weeks, so if she was born at 36 weeks, it may be slightly relevant but will even out pretty quickly, if born at 30 weeks, it takes longer for A times to catch up to average for age.

But if the baby is yawning, doesn't that mean she's tired?Is it possible to yawn and want to sleep but still be UT?
Not necessarily - (usually older) babies can yawn for other reasons, eg. fluid in ears, ready for an activity change. It is also possible to develop a habit of being tired at a certain A time if it stays static for too long. At 8 weeks, generally tired cues are reasonably reliable and a baby will feed for 30-40mins, change nappy and perhaps spend 5-10 mins doing something (chatting with mum/dad/visitor, tummy time, etc.) then be off for a nap at around 1hr A time.

We thought she was OT b/c she would get fussyCan UT get fussy too but yawn and want to sleep?
Getting fussy can be many things - hunger, bowel discomfort/motion, wet nappy, not quite the right temperature, just want to chat (remember, crying is really her only way of communicating at this point), "I liked looking at that thing you turned away from", overstimulation (I found that DS struggled with TV on as background noise as it was too much stimulation for him), the list goes on.

What are some suggested activities to tired out an 8 week old....she can't run around or anything
Just being in the outside world is enough - literally everything she sees/hears/feels/smells/tastes is new and interesting. If she's not tired at 1hr, try an extra 5 mins. Waking after one sleep cycle at this age is very commonly developmental - she hasn't learned yet how to connect sleep cycles, so its worth trying to resettle her if you can, though I wouldn't spend more than 10-15mins on it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 08:04:31 am by becj86 »