8mo short naps

[Elauriel]

I was actually going to come here to post my success at pu/pd shh/pat, but instead I am seeking advice on my short napper!

About 3 weeks ago I started pu/pd/shh/pat with my almost 8mo. In 1 day I went from rocking him to sleep multiple times a day to shh/patting him to sleep in 10 minutes. It was awesome. He went from waking every 20-30 minutes at the beginning of night to sleeping for 4 hours straight and maybe waking once, with resettling him with a hand on his back in 5 minutes. Awesome. I was so happy. After 2 days I would lay him down at first nap and he would fall asleep quietly. At second nap he would fuss for 2-3 minutes and fall asleep quietly. Occasionally I would stand next to the crib, let him hold my hand, or rub his back and he would fall asleep. Totally fine. He would take 2-1hr20minute naps and be so happy. It was great.

Then after a week or so he started taking 40 minute naps. I would put him down a bit earlier to compensate. Then that would be a short nap. Then he would need a 3rd nap and bedtime got pushed up to compensate. He will not resettle in his crib. He's super smiley and ready to play.

3 weeks later and he seems to be taking short naps every day. One day he had 4 naps! We went from 3 hour increments to 2-2.5hrs in between naps, which makes for a very long day and a cranky baby. I've tried keeping him up longer than 3 hours on a good day and he seems miserable! I just checked A times for his age and it says almost 4 hours!! So I thought maybe I was not keeping him up long enough. Here is a good day and a bad day:

6 up
9 nap
10:30 up
1:30 nap
3 up
6 bedtime

Now on a day like this he is partying at 5AM, so that suggests not enough A time, right? So then I do 3.15A time and I get this:

6 up
9:15 nap
10:00 up
12 screaming
12:30 nap
1 up
3:30 nap
4:30 up
7 bedtime, miserable

But then he sleeps well overnight, haha.

So should I be pushing to 3.5 hours for the first A time? He is definitely ready to go to bed at 2.5 hours no matter how well he sleeps, but I guess that could just be a habit. Thanks!

[becj86]

Well done with the sleep training! That's awesome

WRT to your current issue, you've worked out exactly what you need to do.

Then after a week or so he started taking 40 minute naps. I would put him down a bit earlier to compensate. Then that would be a short nap. Then he would need a 3rd nap and bedtime got pushed up to compensate. He will not resettle in his crib. He's super smiley and ready to play.

Classic undertired naps. Best not to reduce A time at all after an UT nap, though you can reduce slightly (I'd suggest a max of 15mins, not 30mins though! - its a rare baby who needs that much less).

6 up9 nap10:30 up1:30 nap3 up6 bedtime

Really super routine for a 6-7mo. Not so flash for LO now...

6 up9:15 nap10:00 up12 screaming12:30 nap1 up3:30 nap4:30 up7 bedtime, miserable

So UT for the first nap off 3:15 A time. Not sure what the screaming is at 12noon - other than tiredness, it could be: hunger/thirst, frustration whilst trying new skill, discomfort/pain,
Then 12:30-1 nap - perhaps OT, perhaps overstimulation, perhaps pain, perhaps related to screaming - could be many different things and not worth reading too much into it unless you're getting this happening as a pattern.
Then 3:30-4:30 - another UT nap off a short A time.
7pm BT - misery can be from UT too - how would you feel if someone sent you to bed when you weren't tired? Its not always OT.

We know he can get through that 45min sleep cycle transition. At this stage, its worth trying 3:15 consistently for all A times for 3-4 days before trying to push the first A time to 3:30. Am I right in thinking the only time you've done 3:15 first off, you've then followed up with two A times of 2.5hr as above? If so, give the consistent A times a go as you have recently had good success with 3hr for all A times.

At this age, you're not necessarily going to get a 12hr night any more. 11hr is perfectly acceptable and reasonable at this age, so don't worry about the day running 6am-7pm.

[Elauriel]

Thank you so much for your response!! He will be 8mo in 3 days. What do you think his A time should be now? Should his first A time be a bit longer than the others? Right now he is falling asleep in my arms around 3hrs in the morning so I was putting him down around then, but we will try to push it a bit more. Maybe Monday though...we have the stupid time change tonight and he has a cold so he's been up all night sniffling and nursing. I will report back!

[becj86]

What do you think his A time should be now?

Its so hard to know with LOs at this age, as the variation is huge. I think given how well your DS has done with 3hr A times across the board until very recently, I'd start with 3:15 A times across the board and see how that goes for a week then tweak further if needed.

[Elauriel]

We are just struggling to get to that 3hr 15m A time! he is usually a miserable crying mess by 2hr 50m, so he goes down at 3 hours on the dot most days, but we have gotten some 1.5-2 hour naps out of him at this time. Yesterday afternoon after a good nap he wanted to go down around 2hr 30m. I held out as long as I could (because who really likes carrying around a crying baby when you know he just wants to sleep), so I finally put him down around 2hr 50m. He woke up wide awake 30 minutes later, of course. But he sounded so miserable I felt like I had to put him down! He is teething and he's been learning to walk, so I'm trying to just go with the flow with all this. Luckily he rarely gets fussy due to lack of sleep, so he's pretty happy and chipper all day even with short naps/bad nights. At least it makes my day more bearable. I am still working on 3hr 15m, but he woke up so much last night and his tooth has almost cut through, so I don't want to push him too much.

[becj86]

but we have gotten some 1.5-2 hour naps out of him at this time.

In the afternoon mostly?

You are there. You know him best and if he's really exhausted, its worth putting him down. What I'm wondering though is how exhausted he is and whether he is actually overstimulated (thinking this as he's learning to walk at 8mo and sounds a bit similar in temperament to my DS). I also wonder if maybe his sleep cycle is a touch shorter than average and 30mins is UT rather than OT. If he's wide awake and impossible to resettle, it sounds more like UT than OT.

Do you mind posting a day or two of EAS as actually happens rather than what you're aiming for?

[Elauriel]

I'm sorry I missed your comment! We are in the thick of it right now - fever, then roseola, then 1 tooth, then another, then another, back to back, and then thrush. It's made for some awful naps and night times, but he is very happy when he's awake, just wants to nurse and be held and rocked. We are back to rocking him back to sleep, which I believe will be short lived. He is perfectly happy all day but when he's falling asleep he's jamming his fingers into his mouth. It must really bother him when he's not distracted by the world.

Recently he decided that he no longer wants a 3hr A time - that he wants like a 4hr A time. Which has totally thrown me for a loop, and between him being sick and school runs, and weekend craziness, we're just all over the place at the moment! haha. But at least he's stretched his A time out on his own! Pretty much overnight! I'm taking a break from any kind of anything right now and just going with the flow and keeping him happy. Once this 3rd tooth comes through we'll be back to no more rocking, and hopefully I'll cut down a few night nursing sessions.

I'll report back when he's feeling more chipper!

[becj86]

Sounds like you 've had a lot going on! Also sounds like things should be a bit smoother in the coming days-weeks as his tooth cuts and you can wean the rocking again. Congratulations on getting through the illness and teething

[mulvia]

Just wanted to say: I hear ya! My LO is about the same age and we are going through EXACTLY the same thing, literally down to the small details! He also seems super tired way too early, it's so hard to try and stretch him out just to get a 30 min (or less) nap instead of a 45 min one...! This too shall pass....sooner rather than later, let's hope! Good luck!!