2-1 at almost 9months, too early?

[eva026]

Hi! I think it’s time for 2-1, DD2 is 8.5 months, 9 months 10 April
She was on and A time of 3h and a bit ie i would start putting her down at 3 hours about 3 weeks ago.
Then she got sick and after could barely manage 2.45, upped it to 3 a week later and back to 3.15 last week but we have been getting short but chatty times after her NF.
I was thinking to push her to 3.30a or is it too early still?
 We’d end up with

WU 7.30
S11-12.45
WU 12.45
S4.15 - then what? BT has to stay 8pm latest or I will struggle to put her sister to bed after. No way I can fit a full nap in for nap 2

[creations]

How about trying a long morning nap and shorter afternoon nap?
With a shorter afternoon nap you don't necessarily need the second A time to be as long as 3hr 30 and might still be able to go on 3hr (if she'll take the nap) for both the second and last A time (before BT).
Something like:
WU 7.30
A 3hr 30
S 11.00 - 12.45 (does she only take 1hr 15 nap? It's okay for this to be longer)
A 3hr
S 3.45 - 4.30
A 3hr
BT 7.30 (or if the CN is a bit longer this can go up to 8pm if needed)

What do you think?

[eva026]

S 11.00 - 12.45 (does she only take 1hr 15 nap? It's okay for this to be longer)

Unless my maths is wayyy off, that’s 1.45h nap, no?
And the second A time has to be longer than 3h or she only does a 40min nap - unless that’s the point?

She only made it to 3.20A today

After a shorter cn 40min-1h a 3hA is ok, not too long?
Can’t do BT at 7.30 as I only get in from work at that time once a week. Can only start the BT routine 7.30pmand asleep 8.00.

[creations]

Oh sorry - it's me being a dope!!

And the second A time has to be longer than 3h or she only does a 40min nap - unless that’s the point?

If you are starting to move towards the 2-1 then yes this is the point. Shorter A for a CN.
Or because you need BT to be a certain time then just put in the CN at a mid-time between the long nap and BT.

[eva026]

Ok, got it. Thanks!

[eva026]

It’s not too early for this right? The shorter As are giving me 40min naps and she had been waking up earlier and earlier previously. Friday- Sunday were a mess routine wise because we had stuff to do out and about so she napped whenever but from today I can start with this new easy

[creations]

Not too early in my opinion, no.  The A times at this age can vary quite a bit. Guidance is around 3hr 30 for 9 months but some can need long first A to get a long nap (and to avoid the morning WU getting earlier).  The CN doesn't have to be capped unless you see it disturbing BT or night sleep so if it's longer than 45 mins that's fine. As it is you need to fit it in around your family circumstances any way, so there isn't a huge variety of options available.

[NattysMom]

Mine started fighting her naps around 9mo. It turns out her AT jumped up super fast and then we didn’t have time for a second catnap to have a decent bedtime. She’s at about 5-5.5 for morning AT and 4.5-5 before bedtime. She’s adjusted quite well and usually takes 1.5-2.25 hour naps and 12 hour nights. She’s getting more sleep overall most days than she did with 2 naps. Early bedtime has been tricky some days as my husband sometimes works later and will miss her, but he would get up earlier in the morning to spend time with her.

[eva026]

I think she’s at an in between faze. Some days she can do 3.30A and a long nap with a cn but other days she struggles to make it passed 3h A. Not sure what it’s all about. Hard to be consistent or know what to expect on my work days.
Today I tried to push her to 3.30 but she was crying and laying herself down with the dummy in her mouth. We only had 3.10A and now she’s crashed and sleeping 2.30h although I think I will wake her soon. Do I remember correctly that sleeping longer than 2.30h robs them of their night sleep?
I’m just dreading ew if she only gets 3h A time.

[creations]

Do I remember correctly that sleeping longer than 2.30h robs them of their night sleep?

I wouldn't worry about this:
- if it's a one off it's a catch up which is normal through a routine change
- if it continues it could be great - Tracy suggested a long 3hr nap when they drop to one nap but I've rarely seen such long naps on the boards
- I'd only consider it robbing nights if it proves to rob from nights on a longer term

If she isn't ready for 3hr 30 and you can let her nap at the shorter A time I'd just go with that. The only reason to push later would be if she was short napping which she isn't.

[eva026]

She was short napping and cutting her night shorter by 15min every few days. We had an 8am us and finally ended up with 6.45am, but now it looks like she suddenly can’t handle the longer A. Is it normal to go back and forth like this?
She really fought the 2nd nap, ended up going down in my arms screaming after an A of 3.20 and did a 40min nap. Then she was totally OT for BT but I couldn’t for the life of me get her to sleep longer. Yesterday is my work day so she’s with my mom 3pm-7.30pm, bit stressed because now I don’t know what to tell her about naps.

Today:
WU 7.30 bf
E solids 9.00
Bf 10.30
S 10.40
WU 13.10
Bf 13.30
E solids 14.30
S 15.20 - screaming tried to get her down 15.00 before too
WU 17.00 bf
E solids 18.30
Bf 19.45
S 20.00 OT

Anything I’m doing wrong?

[NattysMom]

Is that correct - woke up from 2.5h morning nap at 13.10 and then fighting for second nap at 15.20? That’s 2h10m AT after nice long nap? Mine only fights me on naps when she’s UT. Maybe bedtime was UT too instead of OT?

[creations]

Is it normal to go back and forth like this?

There have been times mine has gone back, yes. Like he realised he did need the nap after all and returned to an earlier routine, or close to it.

I don't think you are particularly doing anything wrong - it's just hard when routines change and you are probably feeling the additional anxiety over being at work too and someone else looking after her.  Looking back over the day I think I would have postponed the CN until more like 4pm and done 30 or 40 min until 4.10/4.20 then 3hr to BT making roughly 7.30pm.

Perhaps just ask your mum to get as close to 3hr 15 as she can for the first A and then 3hr for the second?
You can't make it all perfect for someone else.  LOs act differently with other people anyway so even if you told her the perfect A time it wouldn't necessarily work out as LO might be too happy to go to sleep or over stimulated etc.

[eva026]

Gah, mistake, she fought the nap at 16.00.
Tried at 16.00, she threw a fit so tried again at 16.15, got her to sleep crying and rocking.
My mom is the type of person who needs everything written down, exactly when the nap should be, exactly when to feed her etc. will be both of us anxious tomorrow.

Guess we’ll have to see how things go. It looks like she doesn’t want 2 full naps but then can’t quite handle a long nap and a cn. I really can’t remember DD1 being so confusing.

[eva026]

So, Shes been on the new routine for almost 2 weeks now. We are getting lots of nw in the first part of the night, so OT right? I don’t get how that’s possible though. Could you take a look and see if anything needs changing or it’s just part of 2-1 fun.

WU 7.45am bf
E solids 9am
S 11.15 bf
WU 1.15
Bf 2.30
E solids 3pm
S cn 4.30
WU 5.15 bf or bm custard if I’m away
E solids 6.30pm
BT 7.45, asleep by 8pm
Nw 9pm, 10pm, resettled with dummy
11pm nw - fed her but she didn’t take much
2am nw fed
Up for the day 7.50am

It goes pretty much like this every day. 2-3 nw within the first three hours of bed time and 2 NF.

[creations]

Sorry, I didn't mean to abandon you. My back is very bad and I haven't been able to get on-line. I am still bad so can't rely post properly.
I've highlighted your thread to the other mods and hopefully you can get some support over here.

[eva026]

Ah that’s awful! Hope you feel better soon, nothing worse than backache!

[NattysMom]

I don’t see how that’s possible either. My LO definitely would not have been OT from that but she does have pretty low sleep needs. Maybe she’s UT at BT, have you tried more AT before BT? When we were in 2 naps she’d mostly have shorter naps, we’d have something like this:

WU 730
A 4:00
S 1130-1215
A 3:45
CN 4-430
A 3-3:30
BT 730/8

I know this looks like no day sleep at all but her naps only got longer since getting more AT and switching to one nap. Anything longer than 45m was pretty rare for us. She always has had a long AT in the morning, getting shorter as the day goes on. But if she had a long morning nap like that she would probably need more AT in the afternoon. I’d usually have to cap her CN so BT wasn’t too late.

I’ve had wake ups shortly after going to bed for both OT and UT. Is she upset and sleepy when she wakes up after BT or happy? I can usually tell pretty easily when she wakes up if she’s OT or UT.

Maybe the morning nap needs to be capped to 1.5h so you can still have 2 naps with a reasonable BT?

[eva026]

She just cries with her eyes closed, easy to replug her and resettle but annoying to do it every hour. She’s definitely not chatty and happy.
She’s unfortunately not going to get a long second nap. With the longer A times her second nap is now right in the middle of when I pick her sister up. So I usually aim for an A of 3.5h and stick her in a pram and walk 45min to the preschool. She wakes just as a get there. She’s never napped longer in a pram.
Do you think maybe cap nap 2 at 30min then? Or cap nap 1 at 2h to move nap to up and give her a longer a before bed time? Although how long should it be after a cn?

[NattysMom]

If it was me I’d cap the catnap at 30 mins. Hopefully an extra 15 mins of AT before BT would help. At 9mo mine would rarely do any less than 3h before BT and average AT for 8-10mo is 3-4h.