8 month old sleep & routine nightmare - please help

[Leah_mummyoftwo]

First of all hi! I’m Leah and have 2 daughters, Lola age 6 and Freya 8months. I’m a firm believer of BW and it worked brilliantly with Lola. Freya it seems, has her own agenda and I’m at the point where I desperately don’t know what to do or what to fix first .., so many issues  I will try and keep back story brief
-On Easy pretty much naturally from day 1- an absolute dream. Are loads , slept loads
- developed a milk allergy at 2 months and put into prescription milk
- refused to drink prescription milk for a while unless starving and then would drink half measures. This really messed up our routine as I had to feed her more at night as I just couldn’t increase daytime feeds .
- on a 3 hrs easy 24hs a day til 4 months
- refused to drink any milk until about 11am at 4 months
-and from there way too many night feeds

The schedule now is something like this

Wake 6-7
Eat solids 8am
Sleep- 9.30- 10.30/11
Bottle offered  11 ( refusing, maybe an 0z or 2)
Lunch solids 12/1 ( not eating much)
Sleep 1.30 - 2.30
Bottle offered 3 ( sometimes drinks between 3-6 oz)
Tea- 5 solids
Bottle 7 ( 7 oz)

Then the evening nightmare begins-
Wakes up between 10&  11 and has a bottle although recently has been only drinking half .
The waking every 2-3 hours from there. It’s a circus !

Daytime naps and put to bed- goes down beautifully in her cot and settles herself
Nighttime wakes- needs me, needs rocking cuddles soothing and it seems to be taking longer and longer to settle her each night ,she woke at 3 and it took me an hour and a half to get her to sleep .

We are both tired and grumpy and she’s starting the day moody because she’s snacking at night and not hungry for a bottle in the morning. I’ve tried to reduce nights drinking / offer water which she won’t have either.

Please help I don’t even know where to start xxx 

[creations]

Hi there, welcome to BW forums

Sounds like you had a tricky start with that milk allergy.

How is the solid feeding going?  You've mentioned she doesn't eat much at lunch time but didn't say how the other meals are going?

You also mentioned snacking in the night along with long NWs, I see she has a bottle at 10-11, what about the other NWs, are you offering milk then?  Will she settle back down to sleep sooner if she gets milk?

Have you spoken with her doc/paedi about her feeding routine recently?  Although milk is the primary food until 12 months for some LOs who just don't like their milk it is some times advised to increase solids a bit earlier. I'm wondering if there has been any particular advice about diet in view of her not liking her milk?
Have you tried making her milk into solids at all?  Would it perhaps be more palatable if it was in a more solid form and flavoured with some other foods?

In terms of her sleep, has she always followed the guidance times for her age or has she had a tendency to need long A times and dropped naps a bit earlier than the norm?  Have the NWs become worse recently or have they always been like this (every 2-3hrs and sometimes 1.5hr to resettle)?

Sorry for so many questions - just trying to get a feel for the bigger picture in case it helps me or another member of the community to support you.

[Leah_mummyoftwo]

Hello!

Thank you for taking the time to reply   

Ok let me have a look at those questions I will separate them into the same paragraphs as you've asked

The solid feedings are a slow start, I think there are a few other allergies and she seems to be fussy but we persevering. She eats a good amount for breakfast , I guess this is because she doesn't have a bottle in the morning and dinner is mostly a good amount.

The other NW tend to be every 2-3 hours. I always try and settle her first. She has a pacifier but most of the time she has put it back in herself. If I can't settle her I offer milk and when she was younger she would drink a full bottle , now it's just a few oz. she will then turn into me and try to go to sleep but I put her down and have to usually stay in there with my hand on her until she's asleep.

We saw the doc at 4 months and they advised on early weaning at 4.5. Freya wasn't too interested so I held off until 5.5 months , she was a bit more interested then. The doc wasn't overly concerned as her weight was still increasing, I guess because she's spreading those feeds out . They also said to continue to offer milk on night wakings but I guess they aren't bothered about my sleep deprivation! I've tried adding milk to her foods but she refuses it. I have to make breakfast with warmed purée instead of milk. I am seeing the paedi this week for a check up. I had always accepted that she might just need those night feeds and I'd have to get on with it but now she's older and accepting more milk in the day and wanting less at night I think if I can cut out the night feeds and  get her hungry for that morning bottle , she could get on track

Her day sleep has mostly followed the guidelines but she did struggle with the CN and dropped that earlier than she probably should have. The NW have definitely got worse recently, she used to wake up more habitually , just need a feed and back to sleep. but now she's waking and not hungry it's harder to settle her. For example She has just woken 2 am .. it sounded like a manta cry ( I think) repetitive ahhh ahhhh almost like she's shouting. I left her for ages without going in but then went in and put the paci in. As soon as she sees me she gets excited, starts smiling and waving arms and legs around. I avoid eye contact and definitely don't encourage this. I walked out after paci and then the proper crying started I went back in rolled her on her side to settle put the crying got worse and she was sucking her dummy really loudly. I made a bottle and she drank 3 oz. after that I would settle her to sleep. She also only has 3 oz when she woke at 10.30 , similar situation to just now.

I hope that helps to give a better picture and apologies for any typos I'm bleary eyed! X

[creations]

To be honest, given that she has had a tricky start with milk and isn't taking a huge amount of milk or solids in the day I would be tempted to think that she still needs the two night feeds she's taking. I know you said the oz has dropped in the night but for a LO that doesn't take big milk drink 3oz is like a "proper" feed which I imagine she needs.  My DS took his best milk feeds at BT and the NF so I've experienced something similar (although not allergy) with LO being more willing to take milk at night than in the day.

I think if you really want to try to drop a night feed (as you say, she does have opportunity to take milk in the morning which she isn't taking) then a gentle wean may be more successful than trying to resettle.  Continue the first NF as usual. Then second NF reduce by 1oz and take a separate bottle of water in with you in case the milk is drained so you can offer something else. If the milk is drained stay at the reduced amount a few nights (say 3) before reducing by another oz (night 4). If it is not drained you may be able to reduce a little sooner (night 2).
The gentle wean gives her a chance to start taking in more calories in the day to make up for the drop at night. Those extra calories don't always come day 1 or 2 but over a number of days.  If she doesn't increase though and if she continues to drain the night bottle then I would take that as a sign she just can't go all night without the two feeds.  Perhaps in another month or two things would be different.

Have you tried offering a bottle of milk directly after a solids meal?  It might sound a little odd to offer milk when they are full of solids but lots of people finish off solids meals with milk, my LO took more milk this way, he seemed happier to take the milk after solids than for a regular milk feed in the day.

I would ask the paedi for advice on solids when you have your appointment this week - or ask for a referral to a dietician.  For most LOs because they get their needs met with milk they can be offered a variety of solids without too much concern over how balanced the diet is in these early weaning months but I think for you it may help to have some medical support on what foods to go for.

I'm not surprised she refuses the solids with her milk in - from what I hear the milk is pretty nasty - it was worth a try though.

I'm also wondering if her sleep may be a bit disturbed in the early hours (less able to go back to sleep) because of her routine. She has quite short A times for the first 2 A times of the day and then the last one is quite a bit longer - is this because you have discovered this is most suitable for her?
Have you considered shifting the two naps a bit later so that the last A time is shorter? At the moment it looks like 4.5hrs compared to the first A of 2.5hrs.

[Leah_mummyoftwo]

Hi sorry I haven't replied or sleep went from bad to worse with a week long virus which  has turned out to be chicken pox. She's really suffering but it's amazing the super power reserves we have when they need us.
I think you might have a really good point about the afternoon nap maybe being to early. Once we are over the other side of this I will have a look at what you've said and msg again x

[creations]

Sorry to hear about the chicken pox

Hope things work out for you.
I have a bad back at the moment and haven't been on-line for several days, and may miss several more. If you need to start a new thread once you are out the other side of the illness then please do.

[Buntybear]

I hope your LO feel better soon xxx