4mo - 35min naps and cries before every nap

[Vaniche]

First time posting - have read other topics with great interest and pored over Tracy's book trying to glean some wisdom but am at desperation point so hoping you can help with my DD's naps which have completely unravelled in the past 2 weeks!

I'm very grateful that my almost 4 month old DD (in 2 days) is a wonderful night sleeper. She goes down pretty easily after a bedtime routine we've done since 2wo - bath (alternate nights), nappy, PJs, swaddle, feed, story and cuddle with DH and then into bassinet in our room, sometimes falling asleep by herself and sometimes needing a gentle hand on chest or rock. She has slept 7:30/8 until 6/6:30 since 10wo without a night feed.

At 13wo she had been on a 3 hour EASY and we were having good progress with naps. The morning nap had extended to 90-120min, and the lunchtime naps were on their way. sometimes I would get 2 hours but sometimes 45min without resettling successfully which I assumed was UT. She mostly settled on her own in her cot, sometimes if her grizzling/mantra escalated I would go in and comfort her in her cot for a minute then leave again when she was calm. All good until....

Daylight savings ended and it took her a week to stop waking/stirring at 5:30 but coincidentally she started waking after 20min from ALL her naps. In addition, she started wailing inconsolably during nap wind down, sometimes at swaddling, sometimes as soon as she went into her cot and sometimes 5-10min after quietly playing/cooing to herself in the cot. But. Every. Single. Time.

She was getting so OT that I forgot all the good habits we'd been learning together and let her feed to sleep and nap in my arms on the couch in the afternoon so she'd at least get some sleep and not be completely OT before BT. Then she started rooting for a feed while crying during lunchtime wind down so I fed her then had to do ninja moves to get her down only to have her wake 20min later. I know, I know!!!!!! Mind you this only started 2 weeks ago and only for 3 days. I realised I'd accidentally introduced a new prop so immediately stopped the feeding to sleep which she was furious about for 1 day but got over it quickly. At least the 20min naps were now 35min as it was taking less time to get to sleep in the first place so she wasn't as OT.

However, she still fights hard before naps and is not responding at all to shhh/pat (she's always hated being patted in the cot, she preferred hand on chest or stroking/rocking her body gently). Maybe I'm not being persistent enough? I only let her wail for maybe 5 minutes while patting before picking her up cos she never seems to calm down? I feel like I've introduced yet another new prop but don't know how to stop since she won't seem to calm down any other way? I'm trying to put her down drowsy so she falls asleep in the cot which works 50% of the time (usually with multiple pick ups though). When she wakes up after 35min, she looks like she's trying to put herself back to sleep (sucks her hand etc) but after 5 mins or so gets frustrated and starts yelling out which escalates quickly to wailing. I've been trying to resettle her (unfortunately picking up and cuddling until v drowsy or even asleep) especially in the morning and lunchtime which has once or twice gotten a double sleep cycle back out of her

Sample routine from a couple of days ago which was our "best" day in the last 2 weeks
A 6:20
E 6:40
12m settling with me from 7:53 after nap routine
S 8:05 - 8:40 woke up happy, didn't call out to me for 15min and wouldn't resettle

A 8:40
E 9:45a
Self settled initially at 10:27 with no crying at all but woke after 4m and needed 14m to settle again with me
S 10:27-10:31
S 10:55-1:05 (resettled after 35m)

A 1:05
E 1:28
4m settling with one pick up
S 3:05-3:35

A 3:35
E 3:45
Refused late nap around 5:30
E 5:45 (we cluster feed)
Final E 6:45
S 7:45 through until 6:30

On bad days, I can't get her to resettle at all and the pre nap settling takes 20m or more.

Any ideas??

My specific questions:
1. How long should I persist with shhh/pat if she's not calming down at all? Should I move on to pu/pd?
2. How should I gradually wean off the current prop (holding in arms with key phrase). I've tried putting her down increasingly awake and leaving my hands on her etc, is this correct?
3. Should I tweak her AT? She clearly needed more than the 90m I was doing successfully a couple of weeks ago as she doesn't show tired signs until later now, but she does move more quickly into fussiness when I keep her up longer. I tried 1:45 but looking at her patterns she is actually falling asleep around the 2 hr mark.
4. How do I get her to feel more comfortable with the process of falling asleep if she cries when she feels the "sensation" overtaking her? The crying now happens in the pram, carrier, even in my arms etc before she falls asleep. To my ears it is distressed (tears, gulping, almost choking etc) and not just her yelling mantra cry. I check nappy, temp etc etc but she ends up nodding off after about 10m but I have to be holding her usually? Am I overreacting to the crying? I called Tresillian for help earlier in the week and the nurse overheard her crying and said it wasn't distressed and to leave her alone cos she needed to wind down. So she kept me on the phone (and out of the nursery) for 20m and DD fell asleep on her own after crying, with pauses coming in etc). So I tried it again the next nap but 20m passed and she was still crying so I had to go in, I couldn't leave her cos she sounded really upset. We didn't try that again, but I'm not sure if I think she's distressed when she's actually just trying to wind down?
5. Is she scared of her crib? She sleeps so well in our room in the bassinet? I give her a bit of time in her crib when she's not sleeping to get her comfortable there and she's always happy. It's not til I dim the lights and put her in her swaddle that she starts crying.
6. Should I actually just be grateful that overall she is pretty much a textbook baby and just ride it out? Is it a developmental phase she is going through? She can obviously self settle between cycles as she does it at night, or is that thinking wrong?

This ended up so long.... I'm really sorry but I'm at a loss and end up crying myself some days once she's eventually drifted off which I know isn't healthy.

[becj86]

1. How long should I persist with shhh/pat if she's not calming down at all? Should I move on to pu/pd?

I think its probably more reasonable to ask why shush/pat is not working when it has in the very recent past. My suspicion is that at 4mo she needs an A time of 2hr or possibly more if she's getting closer to 5mo so an increase in A time will probably reduce the fighting at nap time because she won't be so UT and will reduce the time you spend trying to settle her for the same reason.

2. How should I gradually wean off the current prop (holding in arms with key phrase). I've tried putting her down increasingly awake and leaving my hands on her etc, is this correct?

Yep, this is fine - just reducing your assistance gradually is great, she will learn how to relax into sleep in stages as you put her down more awake.

3. Should I tweak her AT? She clearly needed more than the 90m I was doing successfully a couple of weeks ago as she doesn't show tired signs until later now, but she does move more quickly into fussiness when I keep her up longer. I tried 1:45 but looking at her patterns she is actually falling asleep around the 2 hr mark.

You're seeing all the signs to move to 2hr A time. There's no harm in increasing A time. 2hr is typical at 4mo but even if it wasn't, she is telling you that's what she needs If you increase too far and she's really consistently OT, you can always dial it back a bit.

4. How do I get her to feel more comfortable with the process of falling asleep if she cries when she feels the "sensation" overtaking her? The crying now happens in the pram, carrier, even in my arms etc before she falls asleep. To my ears it is distressed (tears, gulping, almost choking etc) and not just her yelling mantra cry. I check nappy, temp etc etc but she ends up nodding off after about 10m but I have to be holding her usually? Am I overreacting to the crying? I called Tresillian for help earlier in the week and the nurse overheard her crying and said it wasn't distressed and to leave her alone cos she needed to wind down. So she kept me on the phone (and out of the nursery) for 20m and DD fell asleep on her own after crying, with pauses coming in etc). So I tried it again the next nap but 20m passed and she was still crying so I had to go in, I couldn't leave her cos she sounded really upset. We didn't try that again, but I'm not sure if I think she's distressed when she's actually just trying to wind down?

Sounds like you know her mantra cry. If you think she's distressed, I would take that to mean she is distressed. You're her mum, you have been with her since she was born getting to know her cries and that's far more knowledge regarding YOUR DAUGHTER than the Tresillian nurse has. Totally understand that they provide a service for desperate parents but part of that service involves CIO/CC and that is not something that is advocated here, in fact its discouraged. If your DD is distressed, please go to her. I suspect this crying will reduce significantly once you increase the A time to 2hr and she's not UT, then missing her sleep window and becoming OT.

5. Is she scared of her crib? She sleeps so well in our room in the bassinet? I give her a bit of time in her crib when she's not sleeping to get her comfortable there and she's always happy. It's not til I dim the lights and put her in her swaddle that she starts crying.

Probably because she's UT and not yet ready for sleep rather than not liking her crib. Does the bassinet detach and can you place it inside the crib? She could get used to the crib surrounds with the comfort of her usual bassinet immediate surrounds also present if you can do that.

6. Should I actually just be grateful that overall she is pretty much a textbook baby and just ride it out? Is it a developmental phase she is going through? She can obviously self settle between cycles as she does it at night, or is that thinking wrong?

You shoudl trust your observations, give her more A time as that's what she needs. Sleeping >45min at night is different from being able to connect sleep cycles during the day.

Sweetheart, you are clearly a loving, connected mother who knows her baby and can observe patterns. Back yourself! Increase that A time to 2hr and I suspect most of these other issues will resolve without much more intervention.

[Vaniche]

Thank you for replying! She is doing better with 2 hours A time, I was surprised she could last that long but she is content during A time then giving me clear tired signs now which is great. She just turns 4 months tomorrow so I will stick with 2 hours but keep an eye on when she might need to increase to 2.15

Can I confirm that 35 mins is UT in this case? I was thinking that as when she is OT she only does 20min. Her cycle used to be 43min as a newborn but I think she seems to be waking now coming out of deep sleep going into REM.

Re shhhh/pat, she has never liked but I've never done it consistently as she cries as soon as her body touches the mattress. Should I keep trying or move on to pu/pd?

Thanks again!

[becj86]

PUPD is a method of last resort to be used when shush/pat has been tried consistently for at least 2 weeks with NO improvement. It is not a substitute for having a suitable routine and I think if you just do what's working for you (holding your hand on her when you put her down), and slowly reduce your assistance, it likely won't be necessary.