Author Topic: Swaddle nightmare 16 week old.  (Read 648 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Pearla

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 63
  • Location:
Swaddle nightmare 16 week old.
« on: April 22, 2018, 07:15:58 am »
Hi ladies,

I'm not sure how I have ended up in this nightmare as I never used swaddle with previous lo's.

So lo is 16 weeks.   Up to this point things have generally been going well.  Decent naps.  Nights variable but with decent stretches between feeds.

So I started swaddling about 4 weeks.   I settle to drowsy in arms then placed in moses on side and things went well.
Now he is too big for the moses and we have to transition into cot. 

The issue is the moses basket is narrow so when on side one small wedge front and back.  It was secure and safe.  I have tried turning lo onto back once asleep but he never would sleep long stretches.  Lo seems to like rubbing his nose face into mattress.

Anyway the cot is wider so I am less confident about wedging him as I need thicker wedges because cot width us bigger. 
He is not rolling yet but I expect it will follow soon. 

So last night I attempted to unswaddle.  It was a disaster.  Lo is constantly at his hands.  during daytime he sometimes gets his thumb in his mouth, but it's not consistent.   Basically he just constantly munches on his hands.  Last night I placed him in drowsy, and he lay awake from 1- 2:15, no crying just munching.  At one point I thought he was settling only to start up again.  I eventually fed him to pretty much asleep reswaddled and placed him on his back.  it was 3am by time he was asleep again.  He only slept  2hrs most likely as on his back.  Needles to say I didn't sleep!

I really don't know how to tackle this.  If he gets an arm out of swaddle in night he again starts at his hands and wakes up.

Any suggestions.   He slept a total of 5hrs last night!!  I'm exhausted.

I just feel I don't know where ro start.  I'm beginning to think he probably is going down too drowsy for it to be self settling??

Do I just try cold turkey and take the pain.   I have two other lo's and really need a more settled night.

In addition I have a very bad back, hence why I think I have relied on settling ti drowsy in arms.  Bending over cit leaves my back vulnerable.

Any ideas.  He will I'm sure be rolling soon and entering 4 month possible sleep regression!!

I just don't remember this with my elder two!! 

Please help.  Very lost and sleep deprived mummy!

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: Swaddle nightmare 16 week old.
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2018, 08:51:10 am »
Sounds like a long and tiring night!

I would think that Tracy would say to leave him to it if he's not crying.  There are a few places in the BW book that Tracy says not to jump in too soon (ie if not crying leave him), she didn't like video monitors for the reason that parents would see their LO awake and go in to try to get them to sleep rather than just leaving them to it (ie if not crying leave him) and there is another mention of LOs spending some hours awake at night but eventually going back to sleep (again if not crying leave him).  He may get less sleep initially and he may be tired the following day but if he is content then there is also a chance he will self sooth and eventually nod off.

Self soothing doesn't always look relaxing, it can look quite active and even frantic. My LO used a muslin and he would rub it quite dramatically on his face and flap it around the cot, arms flinging everywhere and the muslin being whipped around...not at all relaxing, but that's how he got to sleep and he did it independently. I've seen on the forums that other LOs self sooth in a similar way, not looking relaxing at all, arms and legs all over the place but they are not crying, not in distress, and eventually fall asleep.  My DS is 7yo now and he doesn't flap his muslin around any more, he holds it up to his nose and breaths deeply and snuggles down in a comfortable sleeping position, it is more like we would expect of self soothing because it looks relaxing but this isn't at all how some babies look when they self sooth.  just thought it was worth mentioning as your LO may be self soothing and could lead to independent sleep if you give him a chance.
I don't see any problem with settling until drowsy in arms though.

I have a very bad back too so I understand the problems there.  Not all bad backs can do the same things so I would say really try to find a solution to how you can spend a little time by the cot.  I put a very low stool next to the cot which allowed me to put my arm through the bar to keep a hand on DS when needed.  Not brilliantly comfortable but it was better than leaning over the cot which caused big problems for me.  It's worth investing time/money into providing yourself with a solution because he's going to need some help at various phases and stages over the coming year/s.

I think if it was me I'd just drop the swaddle now because you obviously feel there is a safety issue if you prop him.


Offline Pearla

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 63
  • Location:
Re: Swaddle nightmare 16 week old.
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 11:29:37 am »
Thanks creations.

I know my girls used to wrestle their loveies to settle.  I somehow have lost my way.  My girls are 7 and 9 and I have no recollection of how or what age I even got to that stage.

What expectations should I have of a 16 week old. 

Did you use shh/part?  And how did u introduce muslin lovey?

I'm wondering weather I should transition him into cot as I would have had the moses basket for the next couple of weeks to familiarise with new surroundings and then approach again.

We had an a time of just over 2 hrs which was giving decent naps.  Should I reduce when trying to learn self settling.?

How do you get lo to take lovey?  U would guess I had never done this before,  but I'm completely lost!!

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: Swaddle nightmare 16 week old.
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 18:40:28 pm »
I used shush/pat initially but then realised my DS didn't get on well with patting (may have aggravated his silent reflux which I didn't know he had at the time) so switched to a shush/rub and also used rocking in arms (following Harvey Karps 5s method, there are videos on-line the rocking is small in most cases almost like a little vibration, like being in a car - and also following Tracy's BW advice that if you are going to rock in arms standing up then rock forward and backward rather than side to side), when I put him down I used rocking in the cot by using a firm hand and creating a little rocking or vibration (not shaking).  I reduced the rocking/firm hand in the same way as you reduce patting. If you feel that might be helpful for your LO go ahead, I know others have used rocking too - the key is to remember your goal is to use it to wind down and sooth when needed but not get locked into holding in arms rocking for a full nap unless you are purposely doing so for a reason (APOP accidental parenting on purpose).

I introduced a lovey the day he was born, a muslin square on my shoulder every time I held him. Used it to wipe his face at feeds and burping, always held one between us or near his face so he knew it was there during every cuddle, every wind down for sleep etc etc. He attached well that way because he associated it with me.  In the early days I did not leave it with him unattended in a cot (SIDS risk prior to 6 months) but when he started using it to self settle I let him have it to fall asleep, I left the room and went back in 3 mins later to remove it.  Over time I observed his ability to control it and at around 6 months I felt he was safe to have one in his bed for naps and nights. He also used 2 as bibs when eating solids (one around upper body/neck and one on his lap for dropped food) and every time he had a bump or upset I always held a muslin on me during the cuddles, I wiped his teething dribbles with one, I froze a damp one for him to chew when he was teething too.  Basically we constantly had a muslin with us awake or asleep (I had a zillion of the things so they were always clean and he attached to the clean smell too).
4 months is not too old to try to introduce a lovey of your choice such as a muslin.  Older babies will choose their own lovey but he is still quite little. I think if you did similar to what I've described, using that item *all the time* as though it is filled with powerful soothing magic then it will power up with comfort until eventually it offers comfort without you being there (or additional comfort).  For example if my DS has a bad fall now I might get to him in a flash but my cuddles are not enough, he needs the muslin too, it has that much power!  Some people keep a lovey item in their own clothes and sleep with it for a few night before introducing it to LO so that the smell of Mummy adds comfort but like I said I never did that, he hooked on the clean laundry smell which suits me just fine :)

I'm wondering weather I should transition him into cot as I would have had the moses basket for the next couple of weeks to familiarise with new surroundings and then approach again.
Do you mean put the basket in the cot?  That's a good way to make the move as LO has a chance to get used to the change of view from their sleeping position but then have the safety of the known environment with the basket.

We had an a time of just over 2 hrs which was giving decent naps.  Should I reduce when trying to learn self settling.?
I wouldn't reduce the A time because it's really hard to fall asleep unless tired enough, you don't want to set of an UT nap as LO will find it hard to sleep. I'd suggest a good wind down and then put awake but help him to get to sleep if needed, then help less as he learns to self sooth. For this though you will need to find a comfortable position for yourself so you are able to be hands on without causing you too much strain or pain.

hope that helps


Offline Pearla

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 63
  • Location:
Re: Swaddle nightmare 16 week old.
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2018, 00:03:17 am »
Thanks so much.

We are fully transitioned into cot now.  I'm still swaddling mainly cause I have chickened out. 

Hi naps are good.  Majority 1.5 hrs or over if I get the a time right.

Nights however feel less ideal.  Lo had been doing a 5 - 6 hr stretch initially most nights.  We are currently down to 3 or 4 hours.  I'm missing my sleep.   When I go to him his arms are out.  What I don't know is whether he is getting his arms out first and then waking or visa versa!

I feed him each time he wakes which is generally twice.  I know two wake ups is still probably considered normal but the reducedstretch at beginning of night is very frustrating.   I am finding the lack of sleep difficult now.  I have two other lo's put to bed after the baby.  That often uses 1,5hrs of his 4 hr stretch before I get to bed.

I have started giving him his lovey to play with for a few minutes before swaddling at each sleep.

How many days do you reckon getting used to sleep unswaddled will take?

Thanks.


Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: Swaddle nightmare 16 week old.
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 18:46:26 pm »
How many days do you reckon getting used to sleep unswaddled will take?
Sorry I'm not sure.  Could you try one of the swaddle wrap that are on the market? Harder to break out of and may reduce the waking problem?

Could the additional NFs be a growth spurt?  That would explain the increase in feeds.

It's great you transitioned to the cot and he's napping well.


Offline Pearla

  • New, But Posting Steadily!
  • **
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 63
  • Location:
Re: Swaddle nightmare 16 week old.
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2018, 00:25:54 am »
Hey,

So started yesterday swaddling with one arm out.  He did great, self settled with a little intervention (not certain he completely realised his arm was free) and slept two good naps 2 hrs and 1:45.

He settled well at bedtime by sucking his thumb.  Took a little longer but got there in the end.  I'm going to continue with 1 arm for a week.  Hopefully he will execute the thumb sucking before freeing other hand.  Hi legs have never been tightly swaddled.

His nights I don't expect to change immediately, but he is still waking at around 12:30 every night.  This is only 3 -3.5 hrs from bedtime.  I don't think it's a growth spurt as it has been at least two weeks now and the time is fairly consistent.

I don't rush to him on waking.  He does always manage to have both hands free which causes possible confusion for him, equally both hands may become free on waking??  He doesn't settle.  After 30mins or so I feed him, not sure I see the point on waiting much longer as he definitely needs at least one night feed.  Once he is back down he won't sleep longer than 2-3 hours.

Any thoughts on extending that initial stretch.  Is it a self settling issue? 

A typical day:

Wake: 8:15
Sleep:  10:20 - 12:20
Sleep:  2:40- 4:15
Sleep: 6:00  - 6:15
Sleep: 8:15

Struggle to get bedtime much earlier as have to keep lo up at least 30 mins post bedtime bottle due burping issues and mild reflux.

Thanks again

Offline creations

  • Feeding Solid Food & EASY
  • Forum Moderator
  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 496
  • Posts: 21993
  • Location: UK
Re: Swaddle nightmare 16 week old.
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 09:18:46 am »
The one arm swaddle and the progress on self settling sounds good.

The feed at 12.30am sounds appropriate really.  If he is taking his BT feed at say 7.45pm to have a 30 min gap before putting down then he is going 4hr 45 between feeds. This is really not far from "sleeping through the night" which is actually only a 5hr stretch. The following NWs or NFs are normal to be at more like 3hrs as LOs are only expected to do one longer stretch between E over night. While the stretches might be a little on the short side (not quite 5hr for the long one and sometimes only 2 thereafter) it isn't hugely out of the norm.
What about ding a dream feed (of night feed if LO wakes) before you go to sleep so that there is a chance of the longer stretch coming whilst you sleep and you make the most of it?  So:
BT E 7.45
DF/NF at your BT (say 10.30)
S 5hr
NF 3.30
S 3hr
WU/NF 6.30
it's just an example.
You could also try tanking up before night sleep by giving a couple of milk feeds before BT. E after the nap then again 2hr later then again at BT.

 
He doesn't settle.  After 30mins or so I feed him,
If you don't put in some tanbk up feeds or DF and continue to let him sleep until he wakes naturally then I'd suggest no amount of trying to resettle, just go right for the feed and get everyone back to bed as soon as possible to maximise sleep. It's often possible to put LOs down right after a night feed without need to hold upright for 30 mins, they often don't suffer the same reflux after night feeds.

Another thing you could consider is the reflux, this could be causing additional night feeds because if the reflux is not controlled LO is more likely to want smaller feeds more frequently as it relieves the discomfort. If LO is not on medication to control the reflux then the NWs may be linked to pain. If meds are already given the dose might need to be reassessed.

hth