A time? almost 4mo but born 2.5w earlier

[Vsta]

Hi!

What A time should I aim for my son who will be 4mo in a week considering he was born almost 2.5w earlier (should I think about that at all)?

we have got 30min naps in the last couple of days (before they were at least 45min) and it's not clear to me if they OT or UT because it's almost always the same: he wakes up, doesn't cry and it takes some time to rock him to drowsiness. Currently he has 1.5h A time (most of them)

thank you!

[Vsta]

Again woke up quietly after 30 minutes and having almost 2h A time before that (could not fall asleep because was OT)

[jessmum46]

Generally I wouldn't consider 2.5 weeks early and would just go with the guide times (to begin with) for your baby's age.  That said, they are only a guide and babies are all individuals who will need more or less time awake according to their personalities and needs.  2h A time would actually be fairly typical for 4 months - see this link: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0 - so assuming your LO was reasonably well-rested going down for the nap I'd say more likely undertired with a long settle (during which there is little stimulation) and therefore a short nap.  Perhaps try putting down 10-15 mins later and see what happens?

[Vsta]

Thank you jessmum46!
Today I tried to stick to 1h45m A time. But still ended up with 30 minutes naps though he was more tired when he was waking up from them and I could easily rock him to sleep back. (yes, for the second part of his naps I usually rock him and holding in my arms till he wakes up, still can't do a proper sleep training )

So he had 3 x 1.5h naps with A time 1h45.
But he was fighting them and was fussing while sleeping even in my arms. Do you think this is a sign of being OT?
Or to stay with it for a couple more days and see how it goes?

[jessmum46]

I would stick with it for 3-4 days and then reassess where you are - sometimes you just need a few days for things to settle   If you want to post what has been happening on here we'd be happy to help you tweak if necessary.

[Vsta]

Day 3:
Still 30 min naps

He falls asleep easily when I put him drowsy after A time but it doesn't work for the second time after napping for 30 min - I rock to drowsiness, put him in the cot and in a moment his eyes are wide open

today his second nap was 30 mins and I couldn't make him sleeping by rocking. Fed, tried to make him drowsy after 1h15 mins - no luck, after 1h30mins tried again - he was crying and crying until I unswaddled him and held vertically. After 10mins I tried again and he was obviously very very OT. I don't understand that baby?! 

[jessmum46]

Could you post what the whole day looked like?  After a short nap he probably needs a bit less A time, maybe he was OT by second nap?  What about trying to settle him in the cot instead of rocking so he doesn't get 'jolted' going to sleep and wake up again?

[Vsta]

Yes, this is what I was trying to do by putting him at different times.

This is the log for today. I really appreciate if you have a look.

0.20 - feed after 5h of sleep (fell asleep while eating, most of the time he falls asleep quite easily here)
4.20 - feed (made a poo, it's always hard to resettle him this second wake up)
6.00 - re-plugged dummy (we had early wakings in the previous days around 5am)
7.36 - wake up (don't know exactly when because it's time I woke up )
8.20 - feed (it's a struggle his first feed)
9.10 - sleep. put to the cot at 8.50 after a bit of rocking but managed to settle in 20 minutes, was tired from over stimulation ( at some point I just stop doing anything except re-plugging dummy because I find it easier for him to fall asleep with my minimal intervention)
-- after 27 minutes I bent over the cot side, applied pressure on his shoulder and started stroking his head (he is a side sleeper), continuing for 20 minutes. Miracle! He passed 30 minutes (though I saw he half opened his eyes a couple of times) and 45 minutes as well. Will see how it goes with the next nap.
Thank you for reminding this method, I tried it like a month ago but with a little success. - -
11.20 - wake up! Wow 2h10m
12.00 - feed
1.06 - sleep. He started crying at 12.50, thought this was a sign and put him to the cot after rocking, but fell asleep in 15 minutes.
1.45 - fully awake though I was doing the same thing from 1.28. No luck with dummy because he managed to reach his mouth with fingers and wanted sucking them instead of dummy. Happy chatting to himself. - UT?
-- will try again in 1h15min

[Vsta]

3.25 - crying at 2.45, started feeding. Hubby managed to make him sleep at 3.25 or so.
3.35 - my oldest son woke him up but I re-settled
-- the same method as above at 4.02. Slightly woke up at 4.06, almost drifted off at 4.10, I continued but woke up again at 4.15. Rocked to sleep at 4.25. I guess it's OT. - -
5.20 - put him in the cot and he woke up
7.20 - asleep

[jessmum46]

I agree I think the second nap (where he fell asleep at 1.06) was probably UT.  It was only 1.5h A time at the point you put him down after a really good sleep so I would try to aim for closer to 1h45-2h in those situations.  A bit too long is probably better than a bit too short - you are more likely to get a resettle if slightly OT but very difficult if UT.  The last nap was ok in the end - I know it was an unsettled nap but it was a good length overall.  Perhaps after a short nap aim for about 1h30 A time, 1h45-2h after a good nap? 

[Vsta]

Thanks again for the help!

He is 4m now. I had a lot of 30 minutes naps with little success to extend them and with a crying and crying all the time.

Decided to go back with A time in the morning.
Yesterday he fell asleep after 1h50m with little crying but slept for 35 minutes.
Today after 1h45m (starting a wind down routine 10 minutes earlier) and I was able to extend it quite easily.

Now I will try to figure out what his A time after a good nap and continue to stick to 1h45m in the morning

[jessmum46]

Maybe he needs more....we ended up with 37 minute first naps for ages with my first high A times girl until I pushed her a bit!  Hope you start seeing some improvements soon

[Vsta]

Yes, this is what I thought  at least not 30 minutes

Probably someone else will find it useful :
I realised my attempts to make him drowsy are rather stimulating than calming. So what I do now is watch the clock (I know his best approximate A time) and 10 minutes before starting wind down routine : put to the sleeping bag, read the book (just a few pages), give his dummy, turn on white noise and put in the cot. Yes, he's complaining and protesting but it lasts a really short period of time and he falls asleep. So I don't ssh/pat (he is almost 4m2w old now)

Yesterday I was able to extend his second nap after a short one and 1.5h A time, today at least his first nap has been extended after 1h45m A time, but he was very fussy in the early morning)

So yes, things are definitely improving 

[jessmum46]

Great update well done!