PU PD for naps

[Gella75]

So I’m be just tied the pu/pd method on my 4.5 month old and it was horrendous and didn’t work. She is a catnapped and never manages to sleep much longer than 45 mins. She falls asleep once by herself and for the rest of the time I will have to hold her either for the whole nap or at least to fall asleep. She went down okish for a nap this morning and woke after 45 mins. She wasn’t crying so I left her and she was happy for around 10-15 mins then started crying so I went in and did the pu/pd. she stopped crying the first few time then just got herself more and more worked up to the point that she wouldn’t even stop crying when I picked her up at all. Anyway after about 45 mins of screaming I have just brought her downstairs and she is now happy. Could it be that she doesn’t need more sleep and trying to get her back to sleep is upsetting her more? I really don’t know what to do we have absolutely no routine at all she is just so inconsistent and I try and try to help her nap or follow the routine but it never works. It was horrible seeing her get herself so worked up. I just don’t know what to do. She sleeps so well at night (after being held to sleep) but she will then sleep till at least 4/5am   Any advice please 

[creations]

Hello again

Did you manage to increase the A times yet? I think a couple of weeks back you were on an A time of around 1hr or 1hr 30 mins and were going to increase to 2hrs.  Could you post your current EAS times please so we can see what's happening, jot down the real times, A is all time spent awake, S is from eyes shut and asleep to eyes open and awake.

PUPD is a last resort method. it isn't something that "works" in the sense that it puts your baby to sleep.  Rather it is a method of reassuring your baby that she is not alone whilst she learns to go to sleep and to nap longer, so that she has your support rather than being left alone.  It isn't a method we usually advise for 4 months and at any age we would first look at routine and other sleep training methods before resorting to a proper PUPD.

45 min naps indicate either than she is not tired enough or has not learned to self settle (independent sleep) or not learned to transition from one sleep cycle to the next.  You can alter her A time to get to a suitable length and you can teach her to transition from one cycle to the next.  W2S (wake to sleep) is often a great way to do this, it reassures and soothes baby before she fully wakes so she is still sleepy and teaches her the habit of sleeping longer.  Have you ever tried it?
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0
If you look at naps option 1 it explains how to do a W2S.  You can expect to go in 10 min before she wakes (so at 35 min if nap is usually 45 min) and to stay for at least 20 mins beyond the transition into the next sleep cycle, this could be around 30 min in all.  If she takes longer to settle though you'd keep trying until the end of nap time, picking up if needed but otherwise soothing in the cot.

You might also need to do some sleep training if she is used to falling to sleep in arms so that it is not a surprise to her to wake up in a different place.

Also, many LOs take short naps at 4 months, it is a known developmental phase and even LOs who were previously sleeping independently and on a good routine can have troubles at this age.  My own DS had 40 min naps 5 times per day for a couple of months during this phase and he had been sleeping independently since around 8-10 wks old.  he returned to independent sleeping when the phase passed.  it is often 4-6 months but can be earlier or later.  My DS had his at 3.5 - 5.5 months.

You can continue to post to this thread with updates and we can continue to support you here as you find your way through this.

[Gella75]

Thanks for the reply...so I will post you yesterdays EAS and so far today but it is so inconsistent and every day seems completely different!
So yesterday:
Awake 5.30am
E 6am
A 5.30-7.40
S 7.40-8.25

E 10am
A  until 11.00
S 11.00-1.00  **(I have no idea how she slept this long as this is a very rare occurrence!!**

E 2pm
A until 3.30pm
S 3.30-4pm

E 6.20
S 7pm

Today so far:

E 5.30am
A 5.30-7.30
S 7.30- 8.05
A 8.05 - 9.00  **Half of this time happy and playing then tired grumpy and trying to get back to sleep**
S 9.00-9.50

E 10am
A until 11am
S 11-11.20 (in the car)
A 11.20- 1.10
S 1.10 - 1.45 (again in the car)

E 2pm
A until 3pm
S 3.00 - 3.20pm **put to sleep as was looking tired and was unhappy, took a while to fall asleep!**

So, yesterday was quite a good day in all fairness and today is just lots of catnaps! but i would say the majority of days are more like today is going and she just catnaps and seems tired a lot!!! One day we seem to get a really good routine going but the next she is completely different!

[creations]

S 11.00-1.00  **(I have no idea how she slept this long as this is a very rare occurrence!!**

Perhaps because her A times was 2hr 35, she might have been very tired which got her through a long nap.

Are you out and about a lot?  If you have consistent trips out you might be able to work a consistent sleep routine around it but if you have inconsistent trips out then I'm afraid that you can't really expect LO to learn a consistent routine, it's all about habits.
However, on the days you are home you could try the W2S I linked before.  There's only really two options with the 4 months regression and short naps either:
- do everything you can to get LO to sleep longer
or
- accept it's a phase and just get up after the 45 mins and get on with the day.  Longer naps are more likely to come closer to 6 months.

Your A times are hard to judge based on there being a long one and several short ones due to the car napping but on the whole it looks like you got to around 2hrs ish.  If you can't avoid the trips maybe try to aim the time you go out to fit in with a 2hr A and then nap time.