5.5 months no stretch at night

[Pearla]

Hi ladies,

I'm posting after many weeks of hoping to see an improvement but with no change.  The nights are really getting to me now.

This is my third lo albeit with a large gap and I feel completely lost by his sleep.

Some background: 
Born full term. 
Bf exclusively for first 4 months.  Now full time bottle fed expressed milk.  ( not my intention but feeding was not easy.  Lo had posterior tongue tie eventually diagnosed but it wasn't snipped.  Mainly as not recognised over here but also due to his age it was felt there was no guarantee his sucking ability would change).

He still struggles with wind as in burps.  He has multiple burps long after a feed.  I think this is due to the way he sucks due to tie and swallow excess air.  The longer A times have helped in this regard.

Around the 3 month mark he would do a stretch of about 6hrs from bedtime bottle to first waking.  This lasted a couple of weeks and is repeated random nights here and there.

He no longer does any decent stretch at night.  Waking 3 hrs after bed and then again 3 or 3.5 again.

I wonder if it's a self settling issue??   I don't feel we have progressed enough in this area.  I walk with him and sing a lullaby and have to place him in cot when drowsy.  If I don't get him in drowsy he starts kicking, munching on his lovey and eventually just winds himself up.  Placed in drowsy he will normally fall asleep in seconds.  sometimes I can place him in at the starey eye stage and he will do the rest.  This is for naps and bedtime.   I think he should be doing more himself but don't seem to be able to crack it, without ending up with a crying/ot baby.

I feel at 5.5 months we should be better at self settling.  Am I a prop in that I have to get him so drowsy first.  I will post our easy for last two days unease there is anything obvious there.

I will struggle to get baby down earlier than 7:30.  She does not return home untill 7.  Because of his wind we feed at 6:30 keep him up but calm in darkish bedroomfor good 40 mins to endure wind up before bed.

A: 7:10
E: 7:40( 5-7oz)
S: 9:48 - 10:47

E: 11:20 (7 Oz)
S: 1:20  - 3:45

E: 4:00 (7Oz)

S: 8:00 couldn't achieve cat nap

Nw: 10:30 resettled. Shh/ptt
            11:00. Fed 6-7 Oz.
         3:50- 4:50 awake in cot unable to settle.  Eventually carried and sang plus shh pat after 45 mins of letting him try.
          6:35 awake for good.  Woken by sister.

A: 6:35
S: 9:05 - 10:49
S: 1:28 - 3:00
Cn: 5:10 - 5:40

Bedtime: 7:30
Nw: 11:00 bottle 6-7 Oz
Nw: 3:30-  resettle approx 20 mins shh and carry
Nw: 5:00 - 6 apop back to sleep
Awake: 7:45

We don't do dream feed.
No dummy.
I completely expect to be doing 1 night feed, but I feel he should go longer from bedtime to first wake up.  I thought this was their deepest sleep.

Does anyone have any ideas???
He has been rolling and is pretty much sitting unaided for a couple of weeks now.

Thanks in advance.

[becj86]

Hi,

A few things suggest he needs more A time, especially first thing in the morning:

A: 7:10E: 7:40( 5-7oz)S: 9:48 - 10:47

This 1hr nap after 2:40 A time;

3:50- 4:50 awake in cot unable to settle.

this long NW; and

Nw: 5:00 - 6 apop back to sleep

This long NW/APOP session.

WRT the feed at 11, it is actually a 4.5hr stretch if you count it from when he fed, not when he went to sleep. Also, did you do a DF at any point? Thinking this may have trained him that this is when he should have a NF.

I think if you increase the A time and get his day a bit more sorted, his night will get better WRT wakings in the early hours of the morning however, a BF baby at this age still often does require 2 NFs so if he's waking 3am or after, I'd probably feed and get you both back to bed.

I think an 11hr night is probably reasonable at this age, though can see the argument for a 12hr night when he first drops to 2 naps.

I wonder if you have tried a slower teat if he's gulping? Are you doing any tummy massage or similar to help with the wind? Do you have good burping techniques that get most of the wind up post-feed? I think 40mins in the dark is probably close enough to sleep to almost count as such - I'd try a much shorter 'WD' given you're really just keeping him up to get the wind out or just change the order of proceedings - perhaps feed, then bath, brush teeth (or add this is when he has some), books, bed. That'll help with learning to settle from more awake too.

[Pearla]

Thanks for reply.

Sorry I'm only responding now.  It's been a completely manic week, mainly due to a sick household.

We have had little improvement.    I'm beginning to wonder if his tongue tie is causing the issue.   Sometimes it's definitely wind effecting his sleep.

He is almost 6 months and that is making me so nervous re revising it.  In part as the exercises etc. Required sound quite painful especially on a very alert baby.  It's a posterior tie also and apparently these have a greater reattachment rate.

He is on the slowest teat, I have not been able to increase the level successfully.

His day schedule is quite good though cannot get too much neyond 2h 30 m.  Most naps are over the hour.

He self settles going to bed most nights if not too worked up.  I do find sometimes at night I can just resettle him by lying him back on his side (beginning to wonder if settling him on his side....he has always side slept due to reflux has become a prop!  Is that poss.   He is able to roll but doesn't seem to employ it once he is asleep!).  Sometimes this can happen 3 times in the night.

I still only feed the once unless unable to resettle.   He never looks for his milk on waking. He normally waits half an hour in am before feeding as I express.

I might post re ties on health board.  I'm nervous re reattachment.   If it reattached but not Amy worse I would proceed,  but if it can reattach worse I would be quite nervous re proceeding.  Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that.

Thankyou

[becj86]

He self settles going to bed most nights if not too worked up.  I do find sometimes at night I can just resettle him by lying him back on his side (beginning to wonder if settling him on his side....he has always side slept due to reflux has become a prop!  Is that poss.   He is able to roll but doesn't seem to employ it once he is asleep!).  Sometimes this can happen 3 times in the night.

If he's just started rolling, give him another couple of weeks so he is developmentally capable of choosing and getting into a preferred position before calling it a prop. The prop may well be that you're going in and repositioning and therefore he thinks he needs you there to get comfy and go back to sleep but positioning on its own isn't really a prop. It could be that you're 'rushing in' - going in before he actually needs you to assist. If that's the case, he'll not have the chance to figure out how to reposition himself, etc. so its worth making sure you're waiting for an escalating "I need you" cry rather than attending to him the minute he makes a sound.

I don't know anything like enough about tongue ties to give you any advice on that aspect. I would say that there are things one can do wrt wind that are probably easier than revising a tongue tie revision.