Author Topic: 8 month old restarting sleep training  (Read 1914 times)

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Offline Kamazingg

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8 month old restarting sleep training
« on: June 13, 2018, 15:46:02 pm »
Hi, I'm back for help after regretfully putting sleeptraining on hold as LO had a cold. He has just turned 8 months and is back in my bed being fed to sleep at 12,4 and 6/7.
I started sleeping training again yesterday and  feeling stuck with what to do next.
After his bottle at 8pm, I am now able to settle him with just my hand or with my head in the cot next to his... this feels like a progression from pu/pd, but at the same time it feels like s sleep prop?!
He will then wake at 12/4 for a feed and go straight back down to sleep.
My issue is that it doesn't feel like I'm teaching him how to self-settle with hand settling  - when I previously did pu/pd it felt more effective ah he would wake up then settle himself back to sleep.
However, the times that I have tried pu/pd it seemed way too stimulating.
I'm not sure how to move forward with this. Please help  :) :)

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Re: 8 month old restarting sleep training
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2018, 08:27:55 am »
Hello :)

Could you post a recent EASY please showing actual times things happen.

The settling to sleep with your hand or with your head by him is a huge step forwards from sleeping in your bed or using PUPD although I can't imagine being bent over a cot to get your head near him is particularly comfortable so I would move on from there relatively quickly I think.  You could change this up by doing it on and off, kind of the same way you use PUPD in that when he fusses a lot you put your head near and when he calms you move away, staying there less time.  Any change is going to be frustrating for LO and he will fuss, the idea is not that you do anything to stop him fussing but rather than you reassure him you are still there but that he is safe enough to go to sleep without your head right by him.
For now continue to have a firm hand on him too. Again this is gradually weaned with on off on off and the pressure becoming softer.  With any wean or reduction of help you continue to offer some of what they are used to and what helps them but your reduce, in a back and forth way until eventually you are hands off when LO nods off.  Only you can make this move forward, so comfort as much as is needed but keep you goal in mind.  You can likely make great progress over a week or two.

Personally I woudkl't resort to bringing him back in your bed if that's not what you want long term. You will make much better progress if you grit your teeth through a few nights and stay in his room to comfort. If things are really bad maybe sleep on his floor.

If he isn't resettling himself like he used to this can be because the sleep set up has changed (you've been bringing him to co-sleep and he quite likes that) or because his routine needs a tweak, or a combination of the two.
It sounds like PUPD is not needed or suitable at this point, of course you can pick up if he is very upset that never changes, but for sleep training it sounds like you just need to gently wean here.

hope this helps and if you post your EASY I can have a look.


Offline Kamazingg

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Re: 8 month old restarting sleep training
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2018, 07:36:15 am »
Hi Creations,

Thank you so much for your response. Using the hand settling in the same way as pu/pd makes so much sense.

Here is his current EASY

8- E(milk)
8.30- A
9.30- E(breakfast)
11/11.30- Nap (only 30 mins)
12- E (milk)
12.30 -A
1/2 - E (lunch)
3/3.30 - Nap (only 30 mins)
4- E (milk)
4.30 - A
6.30 - E (dinner)
7.30. - Bath
8- E (milk)
8.30- bed
12am- milk
4am- milk
6am- milk

A few questions..

- since restarting, I've been focusing on nights. Should I be focusing on naps too?

- Leo has become really fussy with eating and is not eating much. Could this possibly be due to the night feeds?

- I'm thinking of swapping his bottle and bathing around to focus more on his resettling. Is this a good idea?

Thanks

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Re: 8 month old restarting sleep training
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 08:44:25 am »
Hi

Can you just confirm that morning WU time is 8am please?
A feed and resettle at 6am and then sleep until 8am, yes?

You would get much better results with sleep training if you were to do it for all sleeps as LO gets much more practise of self settling that way.  However it's your choice really sometimes for example people do one nap and the night sleep and leave the other nap for a pram or car nap so they can get out and about etc.  If you do this then ideally you keep the routine consistent every day because the training is based on habit building.

At 8 months I'd expect to see more day time sleep. If your LO is OT from lack of day sleep this could be adding to the number of NWs.  Has your LO always done these short naps of 30 mins?  Are you able to extend one of those naps with a hand on or by picking up or any way at all at the moment?
I would suggest trying to get at least one of the naps longer, pick which you think might work easiest (or which you can do at home in the cot) and sleep train that nap daily, plus BT and I think you are more likely to get results.

Is LO formula fed? I know you mentioned bottle but I'm not sure if it's formula or breast milk.  Breast milk is digested more quickly so LOs tend to need more night feeds where as formula fed LO tend to go longer at night younger. I would think 3 night feeds is quite a lot for formula fed baby to be honest and perhaps some of that is a prop to settle back to sleep.  What size are the night feeds?


- Leo has become really fussy with eating and is not eating much. Could this possibly be due to the night feeds?
Maybe, if he is eating a lot over night he will need less in the day in which case you'd try to move some of the calories to day time. Let's see though which/if any should be dropped before you start.  I could do with knowing if FF or BF and how much at eat night feed and if you have a feeling any of them would be easier to drop.

- I'm thinking of swapping his bottle and bathing around to focus more on his resettling. Is this a good idea?
Some LOs get over stimulated by a bath before BT so baths are moved to another time of day.  But wherever bath time is you do need a BT milk feed just before night sleep.  At this age I actually wouldn't be concerned about brushing teeth after the last milk feed (but I would at 12 months and some do like to switch things earlier...but you have night feeds so milk is staying on his teeth/gums several times anyway at present) but instead just focusing on a good feed and then settle to sleep.  I would not do a last feed before bath time and then not feed again, no.



Offline Kamazingg

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Re: 8 month old restarting sleep training
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 11:25:32 am »
Hi,
Yes to clarify, LO is breastfed and only has a 6oz bottle of formula 8pm. There is a feed (bf)and resettle at 6 and WU time of 8.
LO has had 30 minute naps from 3/4 months old :( I can extend the naps if I'm driving/walking or holding, but on his own he will only do 30 mins. I will try WTS to see if I can extend this. I plan to pick him up around 20/25 mins, does he need to be completely awake again and then resettle? Or is picking him up enough?
Also thinking of moving his 12pm breastfeed  to before his nap (11am)so it will see him through and possibly sleep for longer, what do you think?


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Re: 8 month old restarting sleep training
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2018, 10:07:42 am »
I think for now I would continue with the NFs because you are breast feeding. He is doing a reasonable length of time between most of them.  Just really try to do the feed and get him back to his own bed rather than yours.

I would choose a nap to work on, same nap every day, pick one where you know you can be home.
Do as you are for the settling to sleep at the start of the nap - and this is gradually weaned as described.
At around 20 mins into the nap use a W2S.  You don't wake him even though it's called wake to sleep.  Here is a FAQ:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0
Look at naps option 1 please.
You will adapt the method to suit your LO.  So don't wait until 30 min to go in, that's too late if he wakes at 30 min. Go in at 20.  Don't pick up initially instead start your soothing method this is your own adapted method, firm hand, or both hands on him so he feels "held" you can even move your hands a bit for a touch of movement (patting provides a kind of rhythmical movement anyway), almost like a little rocking or rub, or jiggle, put your head by him if this is working and needed.  Use shush or a key phrase repeated to verbally sooth and reassure.  Basically you start before he wakes so that he doesn't fully wake. If he does fully wake you might need to pick up if he is really crying, calm him and try to get him back to sleep and if possible in the cot.
Part of this is teaching to nap longer. It is an aspect of sleep training even though you do almost anything to extend the nap.

Also thinking of moving his 12pm breastfeed  to before his nap (11am)so it will see him through and possibly sleep for longer, what do you think?
You could try this a few days. It isn't a huge length of time from one milk fed to the next and there is a solids meal between to keep him going (you can BF at the end of his solids meal to top up too).  Often milk feeds extend beyond the 4hr when LOs are older and solids come between and because they are asleep (fewer calories used and they are busy sleeping so don't need to eat until waking). I would not expect his nap is short due to hunger to be honest but if you feel it could be then sure give it a go and see what happens for a few days.  Some people do do a milk feed before nap time.

hope this helps, let me know how you get on.