Author Topic: Losing the way to naps  (Read 146 times)

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Offline Ssa

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Losing the way to naps
« on: July 10, 2018, 08:11:24 am »
My baby is almost 6 months old and up to now we were doing fairly well on baby whisperer... got the whole 4 hour feeding 2 hour napping thing down using pat shush to put to sleep but now .. for about 3 weeks, we seem to have lost our way on day naps, which are of course bleeding into night naps. I've been experimenting with a sleep consultant around longer nap times, and she has been steadily pushing them up because he won't go down to sleep easily - but I'm worried now that we are in a horrible cycle of overtime. We have also been letting him cry for 20 min intervals, since I know he is able to sleep by himself - and he seems to cry through pat/shushing and pick up/put down seems to stimulate him a bit but all that has accomplished is to produce a whole bunch of crying - for which he seems to have endless stamina.

His schedule for the past few days has gotten steadily worse and he's started waking up at 5am, usual sleep is 7.30pm to about 6.30am/7am. schedules listed below:

4 July
630 wake up
924 put down to bed
954 nap 1
1138 wake up
1430 put down to bed
1448 nap 2
1552 wake up
1945 Sleep

5 July
630 Wake up
915 put down to bed
936 nap 1
1050 wake up
1319 pu dwn to bed
1425 nap 2
1542 wake up
1950 sleep

6 July

620 wkae up
915 put down to bed
929 nap 1
1130 wake up
1415 put down to bed
didn't nap
1730 20 min carrier nap
1950 bedtime

7 July

710 wkae up
945 put down to nap
955 nap 1
1200 wake up
1501 put down to nap
1533 nap 2
1701 wake up
2015 sleep

8 July

7 wake up
943 put down to nap
1003 np 1
1025 wake up
1445 put down to nap 2
1535 wake up
1930 sleep

9 July
630 wake up
907 put down
945 nap 1
1023 wake up
1335 put down for nap 2
1407 nap 2
1507 wake up
1715 20 min stroller catnap
1926 put down

10 July
530 wake up
840 put down
906 nap
929 wake up
1320 put down for nap 2
1410 nap 2
1520 just woke up
Planning an early bedtime tonight

So...  I feel like even with the sleep consultant's help - things are getting worse and worse... I suspect she's over-estimating his wake times, but she is insisting he is more like a 7/8 month old. He cries so hard for every single nap. and his night sleep is now disturbed too. How do I do a factory reset??????

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Re: Losing the way to naps
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2018, 12:02:54 pm »
Hello and welcome to BW forums :)

Could you give a little information about what the routine times were like before it went off track 3 wks ago please?
What age did you sleep train and what method did you use? Shush/pat?  Was your LO then self soothing and able to transition sleep cycles to do a long nap alone?
What was his A time then?
How long was his night sleep?
When it went "wrong" what were the signs? crying before nap or short nap (how long) or both or something else?
When was it you started leaving him to cry? Was that 3 wks ago or is it more recent?

I am surprised that if you have been following Baby Whisperer methods you have left your LO to cry 20 mins. Tracy Hogg did not agree with this and we do not support any form of controlled crying on the forums.  Whilst your baby might cry with you present for just as long, or even longer, the cortisol levels are low, baby knows he is not abandoned and that you are supporting him through a difficult time.  When you leave him he has no knowledge or understanding that you will return or when and is facing his difficulties alone, cortisol levels are high.  We believe in staying with LO throughout any crying and only leaving when LO is calm - returning without delay as soon as he cries or calls out for you.
If you'd like more information about CC/CIO here is a link:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=19710.0


How do I do a factory reset?
You might use "factory reset" half in jest but if your LO has lost trust in you or has started to fear the cot there may be need to re-connect to re-establish the bond of trust.
Here is a link about this:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=126141.0

It sounds to me like LO is trying to communicate something to you, this is the crying before he sleeps.  It's fair enough that you don't understand what he's saying, but he is certainly saying something and will want to know he is being listened to, being heard, even if you cannot "fix" his problem.  I would recommend reading through the Regaining Trust post (above) and taking a step back, slowing down, connecting, listening.  Make a pact with your LO that you are a team together, let him know you will be there for him no matter what.  Even if his routine has gone off track and his sleep is rubbish.

When you slow down and re-connect there is a chance your LO can show you what he needs to get back on track with his routine.
Some LOs really do need a long A time but some do not, it is difficult to judge your LOs suitable A time when he is being left in the cot for long periods with crying as he might be initially telling you he is UT (under tired) but then he cries himself right through his sleep window too focused on being upset and not relaxed enough to fall to sleep resulting in OT and exhausting himself with calorie loss through screaming and crying for long periods.  I wouldn't feel confident  judging his A time based on the time he eventually cries himself to sleep.
I might be able to give some guidance as to A times when you are able to answer the questions above about his previous routine.
Otherwise for now I recommend a 3hr A time (from eyes open and awake to eyes shut and asleep) just as somewhere to start.
- Stay with him throughout the wind down and all the way to sleep if necessary.
- do a consistent wind down for every nap, it is okay for WD to be short or long, it is dependent on your LO's needs not based on a set time frame.  For instance if you sing during WD, sing the song again and again if needed until he is calm and ready, or cut the song shorter if he's ready to sleep.
- If he begins to scream as you enter his room and doesn't settle down for his wind down within a shortish period of time tell him "looks like you aren't tired yet, sorry, let's go for a play and try again later" (or something like that) and bringing him out of his room.  Go for another 10-15 min A time in a normally lit room with his usual toys/songs etc. Then try again.
- If he settles for his wind down okay but then cries when you put him in his cot stay with him. See if you can settle him in a short time in the cot, if not pick up and resettle in arms until fully calm.  Again if he is not settling reassure him and if it's really bad consider bringing him out of the room to calm down before trying again.
- There is one instance where it might be needed to put a LO down crying, this is when they are a good independent sleeper and are very tired and just want to get in their bed without any fuss, no long wind down, they just want to get in and go to sleep.  If you suspect this could be the case tell him what you are doing and go ahead and put him down, if it's what he wants he will likely stop crying and get on with sleeping. If he continues to cry then I'd just say "sorry, looks like that wasn't what you wanted" and pick up again.
- At this point reassurance is probably more important than sleep, let him know and feel that you are not going to leave him again.

I would also suggest you do not let the last A time go beyond 3hrs. Put down for BT early if needed.

Have you introduced solids yet? I'm just asking in case there are any additional issues such as gas pain which could be involved.
Any other significant changes at home or in his life recently (from 3 wks ago)?

I hope this helps for now. I know there are a few things there to read and get your head around.  We are here to support you.



Offline Ssa

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Re: Losing the way to naps
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 03:20:12 am »
Thank you so much.

First - yes, I really went off track from Baby Whisperer with the crying - completely agree and I fully regret it. I was working with this sleep consultant who was convinced that if he we nailed the right awake time - the crying would dissipate and I should not have listened. That's on me. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to regain  that trust and get us back on track.

Before everything went downhill, about 3 weeks ago: I would say his rough schedule was like this:

Wake up by himself: 6.30am (play in cot)
7am -7.45am: Feed
7.45-9am: Activity
9-10.30am: Nap
11am: Feed
11.45am - 12.30pm: Activity
12.30 - 2.30/3pm: Nap
3-7pm: Activity. Occasional 20 min stroller nap but does not like sleeping after 4pm.
7pm feed
7.30-8pm: Sleep (does feed to sleep here but then sleeps through till the next morning)

For his naps - I would say he was a moderately independent napper. With some patting, shushing (2 mins usually) - you could leave him, and he would fuss or babble a bit, but eventually pass out. He occasionally would wake up crying but can be settled back to sleep with some patting. He sleeps in a dark room, with some white noise, in a sleepsuit. Recently, I've had to let him arms out of the suit as he is rolling (but only one way, can't turn back around), and starting to sit up in bed too. This extra mobility makes putting him down a bit tougher.

About 3 weeks ago - the patting shushing portion of putting him to sleep took a lot longer - from 5 to 10mins to 20 mins in the morning and a whole hour for his afternoon nap. And he would fuss and cry while you were doing it. Looking back (he is 6 months next week) - I suspect he was trying to tell me his wake times had increased and I just wasn't listening cos I was fixated on getting him to sleep. His night sleep was ok till about 4 days ago. I panicked and got the sleep consultant in who identified the wake times as the issue but then suspected he could do quite high waketimes, and we jumped into 3 hours and 3.5 hours. And she said my presence distracted him and since he was an independent sleeper, he could probably soothe himself to sleep if I wasn't there. Which worked for a couple of days, and then it didn't anymore. Eventually we had long bouts of crying and then shorter and shorter naps, more and more tired cues (which she said you can't follow as much with an older baby) and of course now multiple night wakings and early morning wakeups.

So I am thinking of what to do at the moment. I first want to tackle the over-tiredness so was thinking for the next few days I'd try and do an early bedtime of 5.30/6 and go for naps by his cues alone - I take your point on not longer than 3 hours, but was thinking more along 2.5 to start with. And I would get him to nap by any means necessary. Once his sleep is more restored, then I would restore EASY, and perhaps proceed on a 3 hour basis.

Does that make sense? I also want to get a sense of how to best put a 6 month old (fairly large child) to sleep - I feel like I've read contradictory things about pat/shush at this age? When I do try and pat him these days, he pushes my hand away so not sure he likes that.  I'm definitely holding him to sleep at least for the next few days, but how else best to soothe him? He also has reflux so not sure about PU/PD.

I did restart some rice cereal this week after his 11am feed. He seems a bit gassy and pooping a bit more frequently - the reflux also seems to be a bit worse (I don't use medication, he just sleeps at an angle and we try and feed him in an upright position). This might be compounding the issue but I don't think it is the cause of the issues we are having.

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Re: Losing the way to naps
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 09:47:16 am »
Thanks for the additional information, it's really helpful.

It looks like the sleep consultant and the CC was only for the last 4 days, not so long then. Here's what I'd do, give your LO a really lovely cuddle and tell him what has happened, tell him, out loud, how you got mixed up and wanted to get help for his sleeping, how you listened to someone else instead of listening to him (or because it was hard to understand him and mummy was trying her best), and that it's is over now and you're sorry.  Whilst at under 6 months he might not understand all the words you say he will certainly understand the sentiment and honesty and it will likely do you a heap of good too. Put the past behind you. We all make mistakes.
It's how we choose to move on that matters.

Looking at your routine from before it went off track, 5 months old, it was a great routine.  A time in the morning was on the higher end of our guidance times and the second A time was at the lower end.  Most 5 month olds we'd expect to see with a firm CN (40 min) for the third nap and I see yours was taking only 20 min and possibly not every day.  Based on those timings and your description of his resistance to naps when it went off track I'd say he is probably just a little ahead the guidance per age but not significantly beyond and possibly needed a small increase and some help to settle into a different routine. Some LOs do drop a nap very early but they are doing significantly longer A times from a younger age.
(your sleep consultant could be using totally different guidance times, I have seen routines where babies do not drop to 2 naps until 8 months, with BW we usually see the drop to 2 naps at 6 months. This nap drop being so completely different in different methods could explain why your consultant said he is more like 7/8 month old. I'm just guessing)

So I am thinking of what to do at the moment. I first want to tackle the over-tiredness so was thinking for the next few days I'd try and do an early bedtime of 5.30/6 and go for naps by his cues alone - I take your point on not longer than 3 hours, but was thinking more along 2.5 to start with. And I would get him to nap by any means necessary. Once his sleep is more restored, then I would restore EASY, and perhaps proceed on a 3 hour basis.
This is fine.  As you set out on this with the 2hr 30 A time though I want to remind you that this was his first A time at 5 months and he was resisting naps.  If he is very OT now he may well need a short A time to help him catch up.  If though he is resistant to the sleep wind down I suggest you take him out of the room for more A time (described above) rather than ploughing ahead trying to force him to sleep.  You are a team working together on his sleep and figuring this out together.
Here's a link to guidance A times so that you can see where he was 3 wks ago and where he is likely to be heading now:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0
It may well be that he needs longer than 3hrs once you have all this settled down but you won't know that until you calm him down andfalling to sleep is more relaxing again.

I also want to get a sense of how to best put a 6 month old (fairly large child) to sleep - I feel like I've read contradictory things about pat/shush at this age? When I do try and pat him these days, he pushes my hand away so not sure he likes that.  I'm definitely holding him to sleep at least for the next few days, but how else best to soothe him? He also has reflux so not sure about PU/PD.
Rather than thinking of how to "put him to sleep" (I know Tracy uses this language in the books but I'd like you to approach in a different way if that's okay) instead think along the lines of how you can support him when he needs it whilst he puts himself to sleep. You can help him as much as is needed, often following his cues on when he would like some extra help and when he doesn't need it.  Your role in the team is to provide the relaxation, the calm environment, the quiet (or white noise), and the offer of help if it is tricky for him, to always return without delay when he needs you, but you can't force him to sleep, he has to do the nodding off.
PUPD is not suitable for refluxers, it's like shaking a fizzy pop bottle. However if he is very upset you do pick up, cuddle for as long as needed, no timings, and put down when he is fully calm or even asleep if things are really hard.  Even if you need to keep a hand on him after putting him down that's fine, do what it takes and show him you are there no matter how long it takes.  Whether he is awake or asleep talk to him and tell him what you are doing, "I'm going to put you in your bed now so you can sleep properly", "I'm going to leave now, call if you need me and I'll come straight back".

If he doesn't like patting and pushes your hand off then don't pat.  He might like a rub on his back or leg/hip instead.  He might like a still firm hand.  He might not. He might like his head stroked.  He might not want you to touch him at all and if he is relatively calm then that's ok but it's sounds like he mostly isn't calm these days, he's crying hard.  Pick up and sooth (it's okay to walk, rock or bounce a little if this is comforting to him, sing if he likes it, talk with him). When you put down again keep a hand on him but don't pat. If he pushes your hand off just sit there with him. Maybe use some verbal reassurance, "I'm right here, everything is okay, go to sleep".  Introducing a key phrase is a great method of reassuring your LO and can be used for years.

Whilst you reconnect he may well cry louder and for longer. Be prepared for this.  He may have a great deal to tell you about and he wants to be heard. You need to stay with him. Lots of deep breaths and stay calm. If it helps use ear plugs to dull the screaming, or put head phones with calming music for yourself.  Never get angry or lose patience.

Go to him for every night waking, reassure him, stay if needed.  Some people (me) set up a mattress or blanket on the floor by LO through hard times perhaps do this if the NWs are very long or frequent.
Early wake up, if you can resettle back to sleep then good. If not then for now count your A time from when he wakes, we don't always do this for early waking and often try to push out the nap later to encourage a longer night but for a few days I'd just go with it.  Issues with WU time can be tweaked later.

I did restart some rice cereal this week after his 11am feed
Honestly I would just cut this out and hold off for another week or two.  Rice is very low on nutritional value anyway so although it's a traditional weaning food these days it's pretty out dated and he could get gas or fill his tummy with low nutrition rather than the high nutrition of his milk.  I'd focus on restoring peace and then have a think about solids in a week or two. Maybe look at some finger food options and BLW.
For what it's worth my refluxer couldn't eat rice in any form. Vommed every time, rice cake/cracker, rice pudding, boiled rice.  Made him bad.
I agree with you that this solids intro is unlikely to be what's causing the problems but he doesn't actually need solids yet.

OK. Hope that's enough to get going :)
We're here to hand hold or let out your frustrations or ask questions.


Offline Ssa

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Re: Losing the way to naps
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2018, 02:31:37 am »
Thank you for this.

I definitely owe him some cuddles and an explanation. Done and done.

For A times the guidance seems to be 2.5 3 hours for his age range. Am I understanding you correctly that the first A time should be shorter around 2.5 potentially and the second should be longer around 3 hours? This may be adjusted upwards once we have a handle on sleep. Ive tried a ton on the 3rd nap but hes always fought it so have just given up on it, except for the walk in the stroller, and I leave it to him to decide if he wants to nod off or not. Im also just mindful of a nap so close to bedtime for a 7.30pm bedtime, is there a cutoff point for CN?

The sleep consultant felt that he was in the midst of a 3-2 nap transition, which she felt is usually around 7-8 months. In Tracys book it seems like it could be 4 months onwards, so I didnt worry too much about the CN to be honest.

Yesterday, our schedule looked like the following, with lots of cuddle and holding him to sleep:

He had multiple night wakings the night before and around 5.30am I fed him to sleep in my bed to prolong night sleep.

7.15am wake up
7.15-8am feed
8-9.45am A
9.45am -10.35am S
10.30-2pm A
12pm Feed
2-3.30pm S
4pm F
3.30pm 6pm A
6-7pm F
7.15pm S
10.30pm: Woke up hungry so gave 100ml, took 30 mins to get back to sleep
---
Night waking at 2.30am, went back to sleep within 5 mins with some patting
7.30am woke up this morning

A bit all over the place but I think hes better. Weve been carrying and rocking to sleep. The early bedtimes are a bit of a struggle no matter how early I try and get him down he seems to stretch out his feeding at night longer and longer, so that we end up not that far from where we usually are. We also tend to miss some feeding time which is why I think he woke up at 10.30pm for a nip.

I take your point on solids but hes been taking these massive feeds, and its taking a bit of a toll on me and my supply, which is why I thought maybe he needs something else on top. Last night at his 6pm feed he had both breasts and a 220ml top up. Which is .. a lot. I also cant supplement with formula because hes cow milk protein allergic and hasnt really taken well to any specialised formula that Ive tried. Im gonna try some pureed pear today (which I've heard is easy on the digestive system) and Ill see how we do Ill stop immediately if I think its causing any issues.

Thank you for all the advice on supporting him to sleep. I think for the next couple of days well still hold him and put him down. And then starting Monday, Ill try and put him down awake while being there and having a hand on him and talking to him. And we'll see how we go from there.

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Re: Losing the way to naps
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2018, 10:13:39 am »
For A times the guidance seems to be 2.5 3 hours for his age range. Am I understanding you correctly that the first A time should be shorter around 2.5 potentially and the second should be longer around 3 hours?
No, sorry.
Look at your EASY from 3 wks ago, pre-off-track.
WU 6.30 even though he stayed in bed until 7am
First A time is 2.5hr (higher end of 5 months guidance)
Second A time is 2hr (lower end of 5 months guidance)
This was working well for you.
You want to try 2.5hr first A time which is okay if you want to try it as you feel he is now very OT but what I was saying was this was his A time nearly a month back and he was starting to refuse naps. Therefore based on what I see I would go with:
first A time 2hr 45 or 3hr (I feel more like 3hr to be honest, the higher end of guidance for age)
second A time 2hr 30 (the lower end of guidance for age)
of course we need to listen to LO. If he can calm down and relax and get to sleep more happily he can start to show you more easily what is needed.

just mindful of a nap so close to bedtime for a 7.30pm bedtime, is there a cutoff point for CN?
Cut off point really is only how much A you need to fit in before BT.  Too short A LO will refuse (but you can move BT a touch later if this happens), too long A LO will get OT and can cause NWs and EW.
As a guess I'd say you would need 2hr 30 A time before BT so you'd want a nap to end at 5pm or 5.30pm for a 7.30/8pm BT.
If he can't manage 3hr A times across the day he isn't ready for 2 naps so could really do with a CN in there. If the CN is really short you'd perhaps need to reduce the A time after it down to 2hr.
If he refuses CN I'd suggest moving on with the bath and BT routine ASAP otherwise you're looking at a last A time of over 3.5hrs which is super long.  Some LOs like super long but if he can't handle 3hr earlier in the day I suspect he can't handle it later on either. If he wakes from nap 2 at 3.30pm then really he could do with starting night sleep at 6.30pm and not later.  Does that make sense?



I take your point on solids but hes been taking these massive feeds, and its taking a bit of a toll on me and my supply,
I'm certainly no BF expert as I had to stop very early with my DS but I have often read this is an age which can be difficult as LO has a big growth spurt and your milk and supply will adapt to his changing need.  I wonder if adding in another feed rather than topping up with bottle could help? Have you asked about this on the BF board?
There is a common misconception that LOs need solids because they are hungrier or waking in the night but due to the solids being lower in calories/fats than the milk it can cause LO to be even more hungry rather than less.
It is of course your call.  My DS started solids at 5.5 months and it helped with his milk intake (increased not decreased) and overall happiness.  Hi reflux improved with finger foods too.
Pureed pear sounds nice - although another of the causes of reflux flare ups with my own DS... you just never know what's going to cause the problems.



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Re: Losing the way to naps
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2018, 02:03:22 am »
Thank you. This was his schedule yesterday

7.30am woke up
8am feed
9-10am A
10-11.30am Sleep
12-1pm feed
1-2.30 A
2.30 Sleep (slept 30 mins. Woke up for 30 mins. Slept again from 3.30 - 4.15)
4.30pm Feed
5.30 -6.30pm A
6.30-7pm F
7pm sleep. Terrible night of sleep. Woke up at 8 and 10 because he had pooped and needed to be changed. Woke up at 11am to feed, was up till 1am when he finally nursed to sleep. Woke up in starts a couple of times for 5 mins. Finally woke up at 6.30am.


Ah ok - I gottit on Wake times. I think he is still quite OT cos he doesn't seem to last beyond 2.5 hours for his first A, but I will monitor this and if he needs a longer wake time. The second wake time yesterday was 3 hours and it is too long because his nap after was fragmented so I will try for 2.5 hours today. He needs a little bit of carrying and rocking to fall asleep and once the A times are right and sleep is stable, I'll try putting him down awake and go from there. What is very concerning to me is the night sleep, or lack of it - which I think is making the naps fragmented due to OT-ness.

The NW and EWU seem to require a nap as you mentioned - so I will try my best to get him to take some kind of catnap today in the evening - possibly in carrier or on a drive. I think at this stage, when things are kind of fluid, I'm struggling to time the catnap and bedtime properly - since with his fragmented naps by the time we put him to bed again and he wakes up its already fairly late - but it sounds like if push comes to shove, go for the early bedtime. For the NWs, I am not entirely sure how to handle them. Like the shorter starts, he goes back to sleep easily with some patting, but I'm worried about the 11am becoming a bit of a habitual wake - at which he is expecting a top up and then staying awake for a while.

On feeding - I think the reflux is flaring up and impacting feeds - which is maybe making him take smaller feeds, which is also contributing to NWs maybe. The number of poops has gotten a bit nutty so I'll check with my PD on them and the reflux, and ask for advice in the BF forum.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 03:24:39 am by Ssa »

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Re: Losing the way to naps
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2018, 18:42:58 pm »
I think he is still quite OT cos he doesn't seem to last beyond 2.5 hours for his first A, but I will monitor this and if he needs a longer wake time. The second wake time yesterday was 3 hours and it is too long because his nap after was fragmented so I will try for 2.5 hours today. He needs a little bit of carrying and rocking to fall asleep and once the A times are right and sleep is stable, I'll try putting him down awake and go from there
Yep, looks like for now 2.5hrs is a good time.  It can change reasonably quickly when he has had some catch up sleep so just watch out for it.
Lovely 1.5hr nap on that EASY :)

What is very concerning to me is the night sleep, or lack of it - which I think is making the naps fragmented due to OT-ness.
Nights could well improve when the days settle down and he is less OT, also he's had a bit of a disruptive time so he maybe isn't relaxing or self settling during night waking as much as he used to.
Any habitual NW can be worked on when things settle a little, or perhaps he's hungry? Could be a growth spurt too.  Teething is also possible.

A reflux flare up can certainly disturb nights, hope you can get it settled down soon.  It's okay to feed on shorter E times for refluxers.

Sounds like your doing great, keep going :)


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Re: Losing the way to naps
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 13:53:39 pm »
Thank you - it's still a bit all over the place but at least there's no more crying and I think we're off to a better start to continue!

We seem to have fallen into a bit of an unfortunate cycle with naps and night wakings.

Nap 1 usually around 30 mins, and impossible to put back to sleep. I've tried decreasing his awake time to 2 hrs, 2H15, but he usually still only sleeps at 2h30 mark so not sure how to tackle this.

Nap 2 usually around 1 hr, then can put back to bed for another 15-30 mins.

For his night wakings - depending on how naps went - they range from 1 - 3, but without fail he seems to get up at 9pm and needs to be soothed back to sleep - usually for 10 mins, then he's out. It doesn't seem to matter what time he went to sleep, usually between 7-8pm.

What do these habitual patterns, especially for the NW, indicate?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:36:27 by Ssa »

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Re: Losing the way to naps
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 18:10:59 »
What do these habitual patterns, especially for the NW, indicate?
multiple NWs in the earlier part of the night usualy mean OT from having too little nap time in the day or too long an A before BT.
one habitual wake with a brief resettle could just be how things are though, mine did that at around 10pm every night for ages, he needed a quick settle for some but others he self soothed. I still hear him have a brief wake even now at 7yo it's just his thing he wakes makes some noise and goes back to sleep, he's a noisy sleeper too.

You could do with the two naps being longer. I suspect the first A time is too short, if you have a look back I explained why based on your previous routine.
I suggest moving to 2hr 45 first A time, then after 2-3 days to 3hrs.  Try a W2S at 30 min to begin resettling before he wakes if possible.

It looks like an additional 15 mins would help prior to nap 2 too.  Try to get that nap to 1hr 30 without needing to resettle by increasing the A a little.

hope this helps