How to stop shush pat 10 1/2 month old

[lovingdad]

Hi there, out little one started to pull himself up and stand up in his cot 3 weeks ago and since then we have had to use the shush pat method to get him to sleep. He generally wakes once and we do this again (he used to sleep through after sleep training at 7 months using CIO). Can someone advise how to stop this please as he will be going nursery shortly and ideally want him to self sooth again like he used to. Thanks in advance

[becj86]

Hi

out little one started to pull himself up and stand up in his cot 3 weeks ago and since then we have had to use the shush pat method to get him to sleep.

In what context are you using shush/pat? When he standing and not going to sleep when you want him to? When he's standing but crying and wanting to go to sleep/something else? What time of night is this happening?

He generally wakes once and we do this again (he used to sleep through after sleep training at 7 months using CIO).

I have to say that we recommend against CIO here at BW. Here's some information as to why: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=19710.0
What time of night is he waking? For how long is he awake and how is he behaving at the waking? Has he always woken at night or is this new? Its quite common for there to be a phase of LO trying out his/her new skill in the middle of the night and if he's not distressed, it is reasonable to leave him to it.

Can someone advise how to stop this please as he will be going nursery shortly and ideally want him to self sooth again like he used to.

Firstly, its worth knowing when you're deploying shush/pat as you may be 'rushing in' and in that case, you can just stop.
It is also worth knowing his routine (in EAS format, please) so we have an idea of what's happening and can suggest some changes there if necessary. Often if a baby starts waking at night when he didn't previously, its a problem with the routine rather than a problem with his ability to sleep, so changing the routine often will fix the 'sleep problem' without having to intervene there at all.
Nursery is a different environment and he will have to learn to sleep there with their help. Having the skills to self-settle is helpful but nursery is a whole different level of stimulation, noise and a very different sleep environment usually, so that often it takes weeks for LOs to learn to sleep at nursery even if they're great at sleeping at home.

[lovingdad]

Thanks for your reply. We shush pat sometimes to sleep for his naps, and when he wakes up he swivels sideways in his cot and kicks the cot and cries (he sleeps in a growbag). The time can vary, last night was 11.30 and some nights it’s 2am.

His routing is as follows

A 6-6.30
5oz formula 6.45-7
E Breakfast 7.45
S nap 9.30 for 30-45 mins
A 10-10.15
E lunch 11.15
S nap 1.30/45 anything from 1hr to 2
A 2.30-3pm
E 5oz formula upon waking
E dinner 5.15pm
Bath 7.15
E 8oz formula 7.30 and straight to sleep

[becj86]

I would suggest that if you're still using shush/pat to get him to sleep for naps at this age (provided he's previously been an independent sleeper), there's something not right about his routine, often that's that he's UT and not really ready for sleep. My thoughts would be that his first A time is unusually short but also followed by a short nap so maybe you've decided to do a purposely UT short nap so you can have a long PM nap. If so, that's fine but sometimes even when that does work initially, LO will eventually arc up and refuse the UT nap. I think if you're getting 1hr (also UT) for the second nap, you probably need to think about making at least the second A time longer so he's getting one long nap in a day if not rejigging the routine to fit (perhaps what daycare plan to do with him if they have set times).

when he wakes up he swivels sideways in his cot and kicks the cot and cries (he sleeps in a growbag). The time can vary, last night was 11.30 and some nights it’s 2am.

Is this a mantra cry that means he's trying to go back to sleep? A pain cry? An I need a cuddle cry? I would surmise given he's lying in bed still (and can pull up) that he's wanting to go back to sleep. If that's the case, and his cry is not escalating, you can leave him to it and see if he can get himself back to sleep.

It would be helpful to have a few days worth of EAS records, just with what actually happens incl. night wakings (time, duration, what he did, what you did) so I can see if there's anything to draw from that.

[lovingdad]

Thanks for your response. You’re spot on with capping his morning nap to 30 mins so he has a longer afternoon nap. Past 3 nights have been as follows

Fell asleep on bottle at 7.40pm
Awake at 9.30pm, patted back to bed within 5 mins
Awake at 1.30am, took an hour and a half to resettle
Awake at 5.15am, cradled and back to sleep after 10 mins
Awake 6.45

Fell asleep on bottle at 7.30pm
Awake 10pm, patted back to bed within 5 mins
Awake 3am, cradled and back to sleep in 15 mins
Awake 5.15am

Fell asleep on bottle at 7.30pm
Awake 9.30pm, patted back to bed within 5 mins
Awake 1am, took hour and a half to resettle
Awake 4am, patted back to sleep
Awake 6.15am

This is really taking its toll, when he wake she gets on all fours and sits up, and eventually stands up crying hysterically and will only calm if picked up. Any help is much appreciated.

Awake

[becj86]

Hi, sorry its taken so long for my to respond.

Glad naps are going better.

I think its probably related at least partly to LO falling asleep on the bottle. I think helping him learn how to fall asleep on his own without the bottle will help, as then he's not associating the bottle with sleep and may be better able to resettle himself when he stirs in the night.

The waking shortly after BT is likely OT which is probably why its easily resettled. A tweak of his daytime routine may help with that but I'm guessing the 1.5hr wakings in the middle of the night are more of an issue for you. Is it still happening? Any recent changes in his life? What's his current daytime routine?

[lovingdad]

Thanks for your response. So wee have tried to do an earlier bed time and this has helped somewhat, although i think the head has not helped as his growegg was reading 29 degrees so he was super thirsty at night. We have moved his bath to 7pm and he is asleep by 7.15, a couple times on the bottle and a couple of times not. Here is his sleep for the past couple nights when the weather has been a little cooler:

7.15pm sleep on the bottle
8pm awake, shush patted for 2/3 mins and back to sleep
9pm awake and standing but literally asleep standing, helped lie down and asleep instantly
10.45 awake, shush patted for 5 mins and back to sleep
5.35am awake

7.15pm sleep on the bottle
2.30am awake, awake for 30 mins, gave calpol as he is teething badly, back to sleep at 3am
6am awake

How would you recommend helping him fall asleep by himself? we used the ferber method last time for cry it out and was in to calm him down at 2,5,7,9,11 min intervals but he wasnt standing then so was a little more manageable. at 4 months it took 3 nights and at 7 months to take him off the dummy it took 1 night. My worry about doing this now with him sleeping in a grown bag is he may fall. He absolutely hated bumpers when we bought them, we just have the breathable mesh around the sides of his cot.

[becj86]

So we recommend NOT to do anything by the clock for comforting. https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=19710.0
If he is crying and needs you, go to him. That will help keep his trust in you and will help him know that you'll be there if he needs you. A secure baby goes back to sleep by himself more than an unsecure baby and has less stress.

I would suggest a variant of 'pick up/put down' at this age - 'put down'. the basic information is in this link: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=275699.0

Here is a compilation of tips and tricks for teaching sleep to babies of various ages - perhaps have a look at the 6mo+ and toddler links and borrow as you feel appropriate to your child - you know him better than I do, so you'll have a good idea of what may/may not work for him.

If its really hot where you are and you're thinking heat may be a factor in his increased wakings in the night, why is he in a grow bag?

[lovingdad]

Thanks, he is in a 0.5tog grow bag and a nappy, no vest. We only put it on to associate it being time for milk and then bed (and he shuffles so much at night, its to ensure his leg doesnt get stuck in his cot). Throughout the night he is drinking almost half a beaker of water is not more (2-3 oz). The temperature recently has been around 26 degrees in his room, and we are planning on sleep training on Thursday when the temperature in london drops to the low 20s and his room will be below 24 degrees. Will keep you posted how this goes

[becj86]

Fair enough, hope the cooler nights help him get some better sleep for you all!

[lovingdad]

so a quick update on what has happened recently...

Saturday night we started the ferber method after his first full 3 day week at nursery as his naps have now changed due to being so tired at nursery and we've had some success...

We moved bedtime 15 mins earlier, he finished his 8oz of milk at 7.20, and we left him in his cot. He stood up instantly, and we went in at 3-5-7 min intervals to lay him down. he done a poo so we changed him at 7.30 (not the norm for him, he is severely teething so putting this down to that) He was not crying when we went in, only cried a little as i walked in. By 8pm he stayed laying down and put himself to sleep. He then woke at 9.30pm, and was up for 2 hours. He pood at 9.40pm so we changed him again, and continued the 3-5-7 min intervals for the first hour, and then increased this to 10 mins. He would sit down and was very drowsy, but wouldnt lay down himself. at 11.30 he fell asleep sitting up, so i layed him down. He woke after 20 mins, and we continued going in between 5-10 min intervals laying him down, and he eventually went to sleep at 1.30 and slept through till 6.20 (the longest in 3 months.

Yesterday we put him down for his nap at 8.30 and after 25 mins he put himself to sleep. he slept for 30 mins, and then had another 2 hour nap at 12.40. We put him down at 7.15, and he fell asleep at around 8pm. He woke at 9.15pm, but after going in once to lie him down from a sitting position he went to sleep after 5 mins and slept through till 1.50am. He stayed awake till 2.45am, after laying him down i patted him for 30 seconds and he went to sleep and we had to end up waking him at 6.35am this morning.

Hoping to build on this today and will look to move his bedtime a little earlier as nursery really tires him out so will continue this even on his non nursery days.