23 month old - waking night and naps

[JCN]

Hi all.

My 23month old LB has suddenly started waking like clockwork; part way through his nap (varying times though) and has started NW any time between 11pm-1am. In all wakings he resettles quickly and with little input from me, most of the time. His WU time remains unchanged despite NWs.
Is this common at this age? Is it a developmental thing? Or is it a routine change that’s needed?
He’s been doing it for almost a week now so not too long yet.

[JCN]

*bump*

For added info his current EASY looks like this -

WU: 5:30/6 (5:30 is EW, 6ish is my aim as on days that I work, we have to be out of the house for 6:45)

S: 13:00 - 14:30 (I wake him myself as he would sleep longer most of the time if left and I found this was impacting on BT)

BT: 19:00

[Katet]

Are you needing to go to him in the night or does he just wake you?
It could be molars coming through or that he needs to be more physically active

[JCN]

I’ve considered teething - but its no better on nights where I’ve given him meds. He has slept through again on one night throughout all of this so I know it’s physically possible again. We are out and about ALL the time - he does love being outside and I’ve always joked needs walking like a dog does haha. But I don’t think I can do much more than I am - especially considering I’m 33 weeks pregnant currently!

[JCN]

We’ve had a couple of nights where he’s messing about at bedtime and doesn’t seem tired now too - he’s always been BRILLIANT at going to bed and self settling, always at 19:00. I’m convinced he needs a routine change. How long should he be napping at 23-24months? What’s the latest he should be waking up to be tired enough for BT?

[Katet]

At that age my 2 were completely different. My eldest (who had a one month old brother) slept about 2.5 hour nap from 12 ish and bed 7ish and awake 6ish.  My second who was low sleep needs, was awake at 5.30ish napped about 1.5 hours around 1pm and went to bed around 7.30. A lot of the time it’s trial and error wake them too early and they have a horrid afternoon, leave them too long and they don’t settle for bed.
I know with my Boys rough and tumble play with Dad always helped tire them out a bit better than nights when Dad wasn’t home .

[JCN]

Thanks.
My husband is only home 2 evenings a week - but even when he is and they play chasing and tumbling around etc it only serves to hype him up and not really wear him out.

I just feel like our routine is all wrong but maybe I’m just looking for reasons. I’ve started a new thread more specifically about the nap.

[Katet]

The routines always change bit by bit, but as they get older other things come into play as well including the balance of their "cup full" of emotional needs & stimulation.

I know it feels counterproductive that they get hyped up, but it's an important part of filling that emotional cup up. My DH works as the Finance Manager for the organisation in our State that provides help for parents with babies with sleep issues. They are just about to release a book and there is a whole chapter in it on the way the emotional needs impact their sleep.

I remember when my 2 were little & my eldest is a "do things with" kind of child, so you can cuddle him for an hour, but if you didn't spend time building lego with him he'd be harder at bedtime... my Ds2 is the ""physical closeness" child & if you played lego with him for an hour but didn't spend 20mins cuddling together bedtime would be harder. Both of them also neede that "crazy" time in the afternoon/evening & I found that if I stood them on my bed & pushed them back so they fell, they got the rough & tumble if DH wasn't home. The key was timing it so there was enough time to then calm down for bedtime.

It's also amazing how much toddlers pick up on the changes of a pregnant mother  without really knowing why, so the fact you may not be picking him up anymore will have him wanting a little bit more from you to compensate & so his cup's not quite as ful at bedtime & so try that bit harder.

So yes cutting back on a nap could help, but at 2yo lots of it will be about the emotional stuff going on more so that the clock watching.

[JCN]

He does still get the rough play time with OH, even though it can hype him up. It’s an important part of their relationship and they have very limited time together. Like you say, each child is different and LO is very much an active kid - only sits for cuddles etc when poorly really.

I do think he’s beginning to cotton on that things are changing with baby o the way - I have tried lots of ways to help with that so hoping I’ve limited some damage that might be yet to come.

Im thinking today I will trial just 15mins less on his nap and see how we go. I’m trying not to stress too much as his age in general, plus baby due soon, will both be having an impact on him. I just have a niggly feeling that we also need a tweak in routine

[Katet]

Routines will always need tweaking, for many years, but as I was saying about the difference in my 2 it’s not just about the clock. The cuddly child needs more cuddles the active child needs to be hyped up (even if hard to calm down) etc, they get older they need a longer wind Down etc.
 The emotional needs have a huge impact. They want catch up quality time after being away at daycare or they need ways to release the tension from the stimulation of a busy day... just like adults they respond to their environment as sleep reacts to it. We all sleep better when we release tension from our bodies and so it becomes a cycle. Sometimes cut the nap shorter and have a grumpy angry child who still has the night problems, I know with my youngest he rarely slept more than 10 hours at night on 1 hour nap or 3 hour nap... so for him bedtime needed to be later or we had a 5am wake up also a noon nap worked better than a 1pm nap even if he slept  the same.

Thinking about that maybe the timing of the nap is wrong 6 to 1pm is quite long and 2.30 to 7 short... maybe try for earlier and sleep longer sometimes it’s counter intuitive with what they need.

it’s also  hard when active play is the Dads domain, but limited time with Dad... is often likely be to make them more hyped because it’s  normal to get excited when something is rare... which was why I realised with my super active children I had to find ways to compensate for the rarity with Dad (games like pushing them over on a bed, rolling up in a blanket and unrolling. Cracking imaginary eggs on their heats and rubbing it into their hair and letting them do it back to me, having them chase balls along the ground. I had a timer system asa warning and for stop time... on part being a favourite DVD ...those little things made the hype less on other occasions when dad played.

[Buntybear]

Hi - just to add that there can be a regression around birthdays - for us they started a few weeks before and ended a few weeks after 

[JCN]

Thinking about that maybe the timing of the nap is wrong 6 to 1pm is quite long and 2.30 to 7 short... maybe try for earlier and sleep longer sometimes it’s counter intuitive with what they need.

He used to nap earlier (around 12:15/30) and for longer but he got to a point where he wasn’t tired at this time and so wouldn’t nap until 1pm. I’ve also recently started capping his naps to avoid EWU, after advice on this forum lol. He was having 2-2.5hours but having cut it back to 1.5-2hours he was then sleeping much better at night.

[JCN]

Hi - just to add that there can be a regression around birthdays - for us they started a few weeks before and ended a few weeks after 

Thank you - I’ve read this a few times on here actually. I’ve never really noticed a birthday or half birthday regression before... but there’s always time to start! 😆

[JCN]

Just as an update, the NW has lessened somewhat (with none or just 1 for the last few nights since tweaking his nap a little.
I have another post on the forum about different sleep issues now! It’s never ending. I think he’s going through a phase and I might just have to ride it out!

[Katet]

He used to nap earlier (around 12:15/30) and for longer but he got to a point where he wasn’t tired at this time and so wouldn’t nap until 1pm. I’ve also recently started capping his naps to avoid EWU, after advice on this forum lol. He was having 2-2.5hours but having cut it back to 1.5-2hours he was then sleeping much better at night.

That's often the case you work to sort out one part and another part of their day changes. That's the one thing that you can be certain about children, they keep moving the goal posts for you.
I used to say with my youngest he really wanted 23 hours in a day, he couldn't sleep long enough or stay awake long enough to give a good routine for a 24 hour day & then every so often he'd sleep a 15 hour night rather than his normal 10 hour one.