Author Topic: any april/may 05 moms want to chat?  (Read 64888 times)

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Offline cambeladamom

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hi
« Reply #225 on: September 03, 2005, 15:50:27 pm »
jill, i am not sure i have any great advice for you. you might try the sleep forum. but i will encourage you and say that you are not alone. i thought we had this sleeping through the night thing down, but cambel continues to amaze me:) and has been waking up for no apparent reason. it might have something to do with a developmental stage--like they can roll over now--or just that they are touchy, sensitive lo's. i was wondering though about just letting him play in his crib. i read somewhere--i can't remember where--that it is rest they need, so if they are playing in their crib, it is okay. that would at least give you back your evening. unless he is crying, and then i don't know what to tell you. but hang in there. this can't last forever, and i am sure he will soon be sleeping peacefully again.
no big news here, just wanted to say hello, and that i really appreciate this thread. it has become a real source of encouragement to me, and i feel like i know you all, even though we all live in different parts of the world.
and about the length of this thread--we should probably do something about it. and a discussion of our easy plans would be interesting.
have a good day!
maria
Maria--mom to
Cambel 5/1/05 and Ada 4/25/08

Offline Katet

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« Reply #226 on: September 03, 2005, 22:28:39 pm »
Jill, you are very normal in not feeling ready to let your MIL take over for the night, but you should go, hard as it is. You say you are worried about the routine, ok it might not work, but it might also surprise you, our lo's have realised about a bigger picture, thye smile, you smile they smile back.they notice other people etc. They also need to learn the routine changes sometimes & I can understand your fear it will mess things up, but he also needs to learn to work with change. I have often avoided doing things for fear they will mess the routine & my baby (mostly Aiden) will start sleeping badly etc etc... but you know nature does that for us too & I think working with it can help. helping your lo understand that things change is a learning thing & might just help you as he copes with lots of change around that teething/crawling stage (6-9mo) which often is as bad as the new born stage for night waking etc

The night wakings are quiet normal at this age (unfortunately)& I found about every 3months until Aiden was about 18mo, we had an unsettled week or 2. It is an important skill to learn(one I haven't mastered) to learn the I'm putting my self back to sleep fussing cry, which can go on for up to an hour at this age (I hate our floorboards that reverberate the sound) & the I need you cry, as that way you are helping them learn to go back to sleep on their own.

Our lo's are just adjusting to the next development phase... the key is keep routines consistent & if change is needed make it small.
Yes rest is almost as valuable as sleep. hard as it is if they aren't upset when you put them down leave him, go back if he is upset, but just because he is in bed he doesn't have to be asleep, he just is in a place of low stimulation (make sure there are no toys mobiles etc) & he may surprise you & drift off to sleep, if not then go back & help him. I find sometimes I put Liam down for a nap & I thought he'd gone off to sleep, but there he is lying looking around & its 1/2hour later & I get that in the morning & the car... I was thinking he slept 17-18 hours, but I relised he actually just doesn't make noises telling me he is awake the way Aiden did... makes it so hard to know how long he has been awake to check for tired signs though!.
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Offline krice

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« Reply #227 on: September 04, 2005, 04:59:04 am »
Try #2 - my first long winded post went bye-bye  :(

I've got a number of the same issues that many of you have. . . .

Here is the jist of my week.  LO started night wakings, he was also waking up at 45 minutes into his nap and wanted his paci, I went back to work for 2 days only (I know I am not ready to go back - will officially return sometime after Chrismas), began full blown PU/PD, stopped swaddling arms by his side and left one arm out, AND have gone cold turkey with the paci!  On top of things, I have a terrible head cold.

For the past 2 months, I've had the luxury of having DH home with me but he has now returned to work.  I absolutely lost it on DH during the middle of the week when DS woke repeatedly during the night and only would sleep when we put the dreaded paci back in!  In my mind DH caused this monster :wink:  *yah right*  This was the same night I was going into work the next day . .. I was so tired.  I told DH that was it and we were going to do this weaning together - he actually wanted to wait until Christmas if you can believe it!!!! :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Friday night the process began . . . no paci for night time and PU/PD all at once.  It took 45 minutes to get him down and after some significant crying spells DS fell fast asleep when I placed him in his crib after picking him up for the 'umpteenth' time.  At 3:30am DS woke - again used PU/PD and he was back asleep in 21 minutes.  After his first feed/activity this morning we were down to 18 minutes with only a few PU/PD's.  Second feed we didn't have to do  PU/PD and DS fell asleep in 14 minutes (we were hiding in his room to see if he would settle himself).  Third sleep - he fell asleep while I was running errands, came home changed him and swaddled and lay him down.  Tonight however, it took 50 minutes - so I guess it will be a process.

We are also having DF issues - mainly DS waking up and crying during the feed and for a few minutes after.

Andrea (Taylor's Mommy) - we will often (and I stress often) have quiet time together.  I don't feel the need to always have a running commentary going.  Sometimes it is nice to just flash DS a smile and then go on with my 'chores'.  When I take Matthew over to my moms he gets more than enough stimulation to keep him satisfied for an entire week!!!

Jill (JJstar) re: night time sleep issue.  If your LO wants to smile and 'show off' (and you can't leave) have you tried standing there with your eyes closed? OR even stay there with your back turned to him (so your are 'ignoring' him)?  Like you said, you could always switch the time you feed him - don't be afraid to try.  He seems to be happy, things could be worse.

All right, I'm crossing my fingers that I don't lose this post too!
Cheers,

Kathy
Mom to Matthew (05-06-05)



Offline jjstar

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« Reply #228 on: September 04, 2005, 12:50:47 pm »
Thank you all for the comments. Last night went so much better. The length of time was the same but my attitude was better! I would just walk and did some situps right outside his door. I only had to go in 3 times to calm him down when he was crying (because he was on his back). He just peacefully fell asleep eventually not after crying his head off. I thought okay maybe that would help make the overnight better...not really but again I didn't have the negative attitude about it so it was okay.

About the MIL thing I'm still uncertain about going overnight but I think we'll definitely go out for dinner. I might even see if DH wants to go for lunch because the days are so much more predictable. We'll see...she isn't coming for another 10 days so I have time to think/pray about it.
Jill, proud mother to Jameson born 05.05.05,
touchy/textbook baby!

Offline jjstar

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« Reply #229 on: September 04, 2005, 12:53:15 pm »
One more comment...this thread is saving my sanity! I don't think I would be so well off without you guys! Thanks!
Jill, proud mother to Jameson born 05.05.05,
touchy/textbook baby!

mommytsa

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« Reply #230 on: September 04, 2005, 15:54:04 pm »
Kathy - I can totally commiserate!!!  I went back to work full time 2 weeks ago and last Wednesday we decided to start paci weaning, which meant leaving one arm out from the swaddle and full blown pu/pd.  Our situation went from bad (8-10 night wakings for paci, plus 30-45 min naps) to worse (1.5 hours of SCREAMING during pu/pd with a 10 min break in there, then a feed, then another 30-40 min of pu/pd, so DS was only getting about 2 hours of naptime a day, though he slept through the night from exhaustion).  It is now (after 4 days) starting to improveFINALLY!!!!!

It will get better! I just put DS down for his nap and it only took 20 min of pu/pd and it wasn't all that angry screaming at the top of his lungs-more mantra type crying than really ticked off crying.  I fully expect that it will continue to get better.  One thing that I think helped to improve things was that in the beginning I was doing pu/pd wrong, and that caused me to resort to some accidental parenting (letting him suck on my finger or giving him the boob).  You can see the way I was doing things and the suggestions I got for fixing them in the pu/pd forum under pu/pd for 1.5 hours +.

Just remember that if you are consistent and stick with it, things will get better and then you'll never look back!   :)   Good luck!

Offline krice

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« Reply #231 on: September 05, 2005, 04:32:11 am »
Let me begin by saying *ARGH* :?  :?  :?

Day 2 of PU/PD and paci weaning . . . here's our day . . . please tell me this will get better.  Also, if you think I'm doing something wrong (or something that needs improvement please let me know).

2:40am PU/PD 50+ minutes - it was close to an hour and DS was so frantic I gave him a bottle.  He took a full 8oz.  I changed him, reswaddled and lay him down - he drifted off immediately.

8:00am DH let me sleep in due to my exhaustion but fed DS to sleep :evil:  :evil: ; but DS woke up after DH crawled back into bed with me.  I got up and did PU/PD for 13 minutes When I returned to bed I did not have kind things to say to DH!

11:10am PU/PD 11 mintues did not need to pick DS up once!!!! :D

2:30pm PU/PD 42 minutes Oh . . . so tired by now . . . but DS did stay alseep for 2 and a half hours.

7:00pm PU/PD 60+ minutes DS cried constantly so I fed him another 6.5oz (he had eaten only 2.5 hours earlier).  Changed and reswaddled him, lay him in his crib awake sucking  his fingers.  Left the room exhausted... DS drifted off

DS normally has about 35oz in a day.  Well we haven't even done the 8oz DF and he is already over 40oz.  I'm pretty sure this isn't a growth spurt, it's more of a "I've gotten myself so worked up and burnt so many calories, that I'm hungry".

So my question is . . . should I be feeding him when we do PU/PD for extended periods of time?  He is hungry and will take a full feed - if I change and reswaddle him does it mean that I am feeding him to sleep?

Oh please, please let this get better by 4 days . . . Mommytsa it's good to hear that things got better for you.  I'm crossing my fingers.
Cheers,

Kathy
Mom to Matthew (05-06-05)



Offline Katet

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« Reply #232 on: September 05, 2005, 04:50:54 am »
Kathy... you are going well. By all means feed him if he is hungry, if he is changed & re swaddled after the feed then he isn't being fed to sleep... feeding to sleep is when they actually fall asleep & you put them in the cot asleep.
DON'T worry about the amount he is feeding, I'd say it will settle when you get the sleep sorted.
I have another "I've been there story" When Aiden was 5mo & his sleep was great (I was stuck at home looking after a sick dh), one day he suddenly wouldn't settle at night... next night the same... 4 nights, what is going on here we said, we'd had to settle him in the car to stop the crying, but he didn't sleep until the 10pm feed. On the 5th night, I bf as usual & decided to offer a top up from some stored milk... he went off like a dream & didn't wake for the 10pm feed & slept until 6am (12 hours btw feeds)
Maybe Matthew is telling you hey Mum I want more food in the day I can make it over night without a df & I won't settle till you tank me up. I say that as Liam is fairly consistantly going 7.30 to 4.30/5.30am (no df).
Trust your instincts Kathy! But remember too it is normal to have a regression when it gets good, before it settles down.
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

s_olano00

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« Reply #233 on: September 05, 2005, 12:11:01 pm »
Wow.. so many posts to catch up with... it's great to know that everybody is doing well..

So, our trip to Rome was really good, except for the fact that the airline left our suitcase + the baby's stroller in Budapest, so we had to survive 3 days - 2 nights without it. We came back home yesterday afternoon and at this moment we still haven't got them back.

This trip allowed me to see my daughter under a different light: she wouldn't stop amazing me …I just cannot belive my DH and I made such a beautiful person  :D She behaved really well considering the fact that it was pretty hot and she had to be carried around the whole time. She woke up a zillion times during the night, but it really didn't matter as she did so well during the day (smiling at people, being very patient, quiet and no matter what, always waking up with a big smile)

Now we are back home and I am trying to get her back into her routine. I can relate to Jill and the going to sleep issue.. at night, my DD can go for 4 hours before finally settling down to sleep. What I did was to change her bath time to the middle of the morning and usually I don’t let her sleep after 4pm. By 7, she’s totally tired and ready to sleep. If she still won’t go to sleep, I don’t fight with her.. we have some „quiet activity” and wait for her „sleepy signs”.

One question to the ones who have success stories with PU/PD ….. can you please explain me how you do it? The thing is that I want my DD to have her night sleep in her crib (she does naps there, but not the night one). During the day she usually settles down with shh/pat, but during the night she’s impossible, I am alone at home (DH works full time and hes home by 8pm, therefore I won’t have anyone to help me) and I am afraid to start it and do it wrong and quitting. Can you please give me details of how you did it?

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« Reply #234 on: September 05, 2005, 17:37:15 pm »
Kathy--that sounds about right.  Expect it to get better in another 2-3 days. I know that sounds like a life sentence in prison righht now, but you can't go back.  The feeds will even out, and you may find that if you're not already on the 4 hour easy, your lo may end up there after struggling to get pu/pd organized.   Today DH put DS down for his nap in 3 minutes, and told me "as skeptical as I was and all, I think this has been really good".   This is shocking from the man who spent 2 hours straight holding a screaming baby on Thursday.

Silvia--Here's what I do for pu/pd.  After we wind down, we go into the bedroom and swaddle, then sometimes we sit in the rocking chair just to calm down (he hates the process of being swaddled, but needs it).  Then I put him in his crib.  When he starts to get a little fussy, I try pat/shh.  Once he gets worked up enough to start really crying, I pick him up and pat/shh him in my arms.  The mistake I made was holding him for 5, 8, or 10 minutes until he was completely calm.  You should only be holding for 4 minutes or so max, and you should put them down if they try to arch their backs or slam their feet down while you're holding them.  Then put them down, even if they are still upset.  Pat/shh for 30 seconds or so (sometimes they will calm down, sometimes just get more worked up).  If they are still screaming, pu, calm them or wait 4 min and pd.  Repeat until they are asleep, 40 min have passed or they are so p*ssed and screaming that the only thing that will calm them down is eating (especially if you've already done it for 40 min, had a break and are trying again).  If they haven't slept, wait 10-15 min and try again, feeding if you've reached that point.  Do not expect them to be on any type of schedule (other than a vague idea of "you need to eat in 3-4 hours") because pu/pd is not really part of the schedule and you can't know how long it's going to take, or how long they're going to sleep once you finally get them to sleep.  Be prepared to listen to a totally upset scream for 5 hours or so throughout the day.  My DH highly recommends earplugs.  I didn't use them, but that's because I don't like how they feel in my ears.  A few times, especially the first day or so, my DS would almost pass out mid-scream from exhaustion.  It totally made me feel awful, and like this was no better than CIO, but at least I was right there and knew that he wasn't hurt and hadn't stopped breathing or anything.  Just warning you that it is a possiblity, but hoping that no one else has to go through it. 
I still am not really sure that this is teh "right" way, but it's working and it's the best I've been able to piece together from the book, sleep interview and advice I got on the pu/pd board.  Even starting out doing it wrong, I'm calling it very successful at 5 days, and I fully expect that given another few days to work out any regression, and the last little bit of crying we still have, that we will be able to just put him in his crib and walk away by next week.  HTH!!!

Sorry this is so long, but even after reading the book and the sleep interview I was still confused about how to do it, and did it wrong for a day and a half and the way I was doing it was not at all effective.  I wish any of you who are starting pu/pd or thinking about starting it, the best of luck and hope my explanation makes things a little easier for you. 

Hey, do you ladies think we could talk somebody who actually knows how to do this into making a downloadable, 5 min video or at least explicit instructions to post on the pu/pd forum?

Offline krice

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« Reply #235 on: September 05, 2005, 18:46:26 pm »
Theresa (Mommytsa) thanks for the tips and encouragement.  I've read the latest book and sleep interview as well and can concur with what you wrote.  Did you ever read a post in the PU/PD forum by Jenapple (Announcement: PU/PD for 3 month old - info from consult with Tracey)?  This post was fairly straight forward, but there was one glaring difference.  Instead of holding your LO for no more than 4 minutes, Tracey had instructed Jenapple to put her LO down right away . . . in fact Jenapple even made this suggestion bold.    I haven't tried putting Matthew down immediately - he settles well before the 4 minute mark.  Any thoughts on this?  Has anyone out there done it this way???

Silvia (s_olano00) - we are only on day 3 of PU/PD.  My suggestion is if you start it, stick with it.  AND I'd buy earplugs!  We aren't yet over the hump and I keep telling myself it wouldn't be fair on DS if we stopped now . . . we'd be putting him through this for nothing.  One thing that I do when I PU is I take a deep breath and let it out slowly.  I do this while holding my LO so he can feel my chest/body relax - It is good for both of us as it seems to help him calm down too.

Well, I'll post again this evening to let you know how day 3 of PU/PD went.  I had Matthew down in 8 minutes at his last nap with no PU and no paci. :D  :D  :D

Wish us luck! :wink:
Cheers,

Kathy
Mom to Matthew (05-06-05)



Offline marlowho

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« Reply #236 on: September 05, 2005, 19:27:22 pm »
The way I always understood the pu/pd was to put them back down straight away- as in-   she's crying hard (not mantra cry)  so I pick her up.  Picking her up calms her down, so I lay her back down.  She starts crying b/c she's upset that I put her back down.  So I pick her back up.  I whisper in her ear(even if she can't hear me) "Mommy loves you and you need your rest" - or something along those lines.  She calms down, I put her back down.  On and on until she isn't so angry about being put back down.  We haven't had to do this much with Noel, but the concept still works with Madeline (now 2.5)  -It obviously is different now b/c she's so much older.  But basically it just proves to the child that it is nap time now.   
I've actually been amazed at Noel lately.  She likes to look around her crib now before going to sleep.  So, I put her in there.  She looks up at me smiling and I think "there's no way she's going to sleep now.'  Then, about 5 min. later, she starts small fussing.  I go in and try to put the paci in with no luck.  Then I walk away.  If she gets really upset sometimes I have to do pu/pd once.  Generally she gives in pretty quickly.  I pop the paci in (which she inevitably loses anyway.)  And next thing I know her mantra cry is over and she's out.    Granted, this is much different than my 1.5 hr. wailer that I had in Madeline.  For that, I really don't know much of what to tell you except stick it out.  Naps were really never great w/ Madeline- it's just her personality to fight it. 
But we've made it thus far and she doesn't hate me.  (AT least I don't think she does!) :wink:
Happy Labor Day, Mommies!  (We work the hardest of them all!)
-Marlo, mommy to
Madeline Marie (3/9/03)
Noel Julienne (5/25/05)
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« Reply #237 on: September 05, 2005, 19:46:52 pm »
Thanks for your encouragement, Theresa and Kathy!

I am just gathering as much information as I can in order to start with the right foot :)

Marlo, when to put down is one of my biggest doubts ever... I am so confused because the more I read, the more people I find they did it in different ways. The book says no more than 4 mins, but other people in the forums say right away. I guess it depends on every baby and I'll have to make a call on what works better for my DD.

Thanks a lot again!

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« Reply #238 on: September 05, 2005, 21:27:45 pm »
Silvia-- The reason I wait until he's calmer to put down is because if I were to pu/pd right away, he would just get more and more upset until he's crying so hard he's spitting up and there's no way he'll calm down in less than 20 minutes (I tried, believe me, I tried!).  For Aaron, putting him down right away was just too stimulating and seemed unfair to him.  I say, try it both ways, and see which one works better for your lo.  You'll have LOTS of chances to see. 

I did read the post by Jenapple, and that helped, but I think at that point I was so confused by eveything else that I just didn't know what I was doing. Especially because in the sleep interview it seemed (to me) to contradict that on when to put down.  I think part of what confused me so much was the way she describes the age ranges (for 0-3 months, 3-6 months).  When your baby is 3 1/2 months, which way do you do it?  What I really needed at that point was like a pamphlet with pictures or drawings and short, one sentence instructions.  I know that there's never going to be anything like that because to a certain extent it is about figuring out what works for your lo, and it's not the same for everyone.  It would just be really nice to KNOW that you were doing it right and that it would work.  Especially when you haven't slept and you've been doing pu/pd for what feels like the last ten years of your life. :)

Keep it up, ladies!!!  It does get better, I promise! (3 minutes to pu for the last 2 naps, and I'm on day 5!)

Offline krice

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« Reply #239 on: September 06, 2005, 02:59:07 am »
Day 3 PU/PD

2:30am - I'm beginning to wonder if a habitual pattern is emerging (yesterday it was 2:40am).  I went in reswaddled and commited some accidental parenting  :oops: (actually it was more like intentional-accidental parenting).  I held Matthew for 20 minutes until he was doing the "I can hardly keep my eyes open" then I put him down.  I wasn't ready to do PU/PD.  I know. . . .I know . . . . shame on me.

4:40am - DS woke and would not settle.  In fact he made hungry cues/cries so we only attempted PU/PD for 18 minutes then fed him.  He took almost an entire feed.  Changed, reswaddled and lay him in his crib - only had to go back in once and put a hand on him and he was out.

9:45am - 8 minutes AND no PU :D  :D  :D (although our days schedule went out the window because we all slept past our usual wake time of 6/6:30 am - I guess it tells you how exhaused we all are).

1:35pm - 7 minutes no PU AND we did this at Grandma's house.  I was so glad, I don't think I could have stood to see the look on my mom's face if it took 30 or 40 minutes.

5:55pm - 38 minutes several PU/PD's and 2 reswaddlings.  It is this night PD that seems to be the hardest on all of us.

Anyone have any tips/suggestions for me?  You've been so helpful thus far.  Keep the tips rolling my way!!!

I'm off to have a bubble bath!!! I've earned it today. :wink:

-----------------------------------------------------

So I never made it to the bath - just as I was about to hit SUBMIT for this message.  DS wakes up.  This time it's his hungry cry.  He gulps down a whole feed in great time.  I changed, reswaddled and lay him down.  I stayed with him for 12 minutes but left the room while he was still awake.  I could even hear him doing "leg slams" - he was quiet otherwise. 

Hopefully now I can have that much needed bath.
Cheers,

Kathy
Mom to Matthew (05-06-05)