Not coping with motherhood

[katejude]

Hello.  I need some help.  Last night after the 6 time of getting up to my 10 month old I had a major meltdown  :cry: .  I just can't believe that this is still happening.  By 10 months I thought I would be getting some sleep but Finn has another plan ...

Anyway I thought it was worth posting our schedule and hopefully getting some advise from all you wise baby whisperer mums.

Finn has never been a good sleeper - he's never slept 12 hours straight like some babies (LUCKY PARENTS!) do.  One a good night he'll do a 6 hour stint.  But most of the time it's 2-3 hour wakings.  He's currently not teething, isn't sick and eats well during the day.  Anyway he's our schedule:

7/7.30am wakes and has breakfast
breastfeed at 10.30am then a nap until 11.40am (give or take half hour)
midday - lunch
2.30pm BF then hour/hour and a half nap
4pm snack (just a bickie or something)
6pm dinner
7pm BF then bed

THEN THE FUN BEGINS!

Finn wakes like clockwork every night at 10.30pm for a dreamfeed but there's no point putting the word dream into it because he's never asleep for it!  Do you think that's half my problem ... still feeding him at night?  I do but it's going to be so difficult to stop him waking and crying for that feed because he's been waking for it for months  :oops: After the DF he'll wake at 2am, 4am, 5am by which time I usually give and feed him again then he sleeps until roughly 7.30am.  Last night I held him off until 6.15am so he went from 10pm till 6.15am without a feed.  But he woke hourly from midnight until 6am.  It was hell ...     

Would a bottle of formula at night help him be full for longer or is that an old common mistake that people think breastfed babies slept worse than bottlefed babies.

Anyway I know there's alot of information in this post but any advise is appreciated.

I'm sort of at my limit.

[katejude]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that he knows how to self settle - I just put him in his cot and he falls asleep on his own after merely 10 or so minute of mantra crying.  And he has a dummy.

[vbisa]

First of all, hang in there!  There are lots of people with babies that don't sleep well.  You are not alone.

Secondly, I would look at his day sleep.  I actually read a fantastic book (not baby whisperer, but I think Tracy quotes him alot in her books) called Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Dr Weissbluth.  He would suggest the following:

1.  Don't keep the baby awake for longer than a 2 hour window (so his morning nap may be a little late).

2.  The longest nap should be exactly halfway between the wakeup and bedtime (since yours is awake 7-7, his long nap should be around 12-2, as 1pm is exactly halfway, so maybe this nap needs to be brought forward).

3.  Try changing the bedtime forward/back - your baby might not sleep well if the bedtime is wrong.  Try 7pm, 6:30pm, 8pm each for a few nights and see if it helps.

Given your little one is 10 months, he probably just needs his schedule tweaked, especially if he settles well and doesn't have any other problems (teething, etc).

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

Just one thought - at nap time, do you bf right before putting him down for a sleep?  Maybe he's used to having you provide the "wind down" by bf, so although you're not feeding to sleep, you're still providing a prop of some sort hence needing you to provide a part of the self soothing at night when he wakes?  If so, you could change the routine before napping so bf is not the last thing you do.

HTH

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Hi,
I too would look at the day time sleep, it seems he is up a very long time before his first nap and not very long between the first and second. My dd is 10 months old and she has a 45 min nap 2 hours after she gets up and then a lunchtime nap of about 2 hours about 2 and a half hours after her first nap which is 5 and a quarter hours after getting up.
8.00 Up
10 Nap 45 Mins
13.15 Nap 2 to 2 1/4 hours
19.30 ish Bed

Fiona
Mom to Leah 23/09/04

[katejude]

Thankyou all for your prompt replys.  It really really really helps to know that there are other mums out there that sympathize, understand and are willing to take a time out of their busy, tiring days to help a stranger.  I mean that from the bottom of my heart.  Thankyou.

Leahsmom - your words make alot of sense.  Finn seems to last easily on three hours wake time as in if he wakes at 7am his first nap is at 10am (usually 1hr20min) till 11.20am then his second nap is at 2.30pm till 4pm (on a good day).  Do you think this is too long awake?

Nikki~Nathan&Danielle - YES!  Finn definitely associates naptime/bedtime with breastfeeding.  But how do you change that routine? 

Vbisa - thankyou also for your thoughts.  I'm a little confused though - are you saying make him stay awake till 1pm for his first nap?  that seems a long time for a 10 month old.  maybe i read it incorrectly?

[ktmum]

My Hv was very helpful with the night feeding issue and said to try cool boiled water in a bottle in the night rather than BF or bottle and after a few nights she never bothered waking for it!! I suppose its a way of not feeding but not going cold turkey - hope that helps
Ailah

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Hmm not really sure but can only tell you from my own experienc, DD can only last the 2 hours in the morning whereas in the afternoon after her nap she can do 4 or a bit more, but I think 3 and a half hours in the morning might be too long of an awake time. Could you try putting him down a little earlier in the morning for a few days?  Babies recharge better if they nap in the middle of the day so I think 2.30 might be late for the afternoon nap. If you bring both naps foward it might help. It might not work the first day but I would try it for a few and see. I am working on a 3 hours sleep a day, 45 mins in the morning and then 2 + hours in the afternoon so that when the time comes to drop a nap it will be the morning one that will go- fingers crossed.
Would also agree with Aliah re the bottle of water in the middle of the night as this was what we used to give up the 3am feed, again it wont work instantly and the first few nights will be difficult.
Keep us posted and remember whatever you decide to try give it a few days to work :-)
Fiona
Mom to Leah 23/09/04

[Gigismom]

hi
i have no words of advice, i can only say i am right there with you!  my dd slept throught the night at 3 months. she would sleep for 10-12 hours.  great!  but at 6 months, something changed and now our nights are filled with wakings.  i too am SO discouraged, exhausted, etc, etc.  i don't mean to complain as i have a healthy beautiful child, but sometimes the fatigue gets to you.  my dd is only 8 months, so she is a little younger than yours.  i don't know what is going on.  i have tried everything i can think of to remedy this, but still end up patting her belly and shhing her for sometimes up to 2 hours in the middle of the night.  i do everything tracy suggests in her book and almost never feed her (unless we have been up 2 or more hours, but she usually isn't even interested in eating).  i have tried posting my problem on the boards, but have gotten no response, only other moms with the same probelm.  so if you find something that helps you, would you mind sending me a pm so i can try it too?  thanks and good luck.

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

Katejude - I'll come back with a reply later, Danielle's just woken from a nap, but just wanted to let you know I'll be back.   Gigi'smom I'll have a think about your issue too. :wink:

[Katet]

Kate
Aiden used to associate night sleep with a bf & what I did was slowly lengthen the time between the 2.
First few days I just took him for a cuddle with his dad (mostly he was all but asleep) & we gradually got him to having stories between the feed & bed & when I was ready to stop bf he really never noticed.
My thought is that it has to do with the association with falling asleep on a full belly even if he doesn't feed to sleep & so in light sleep cycles at night he can wake up.
My thought is to set up a plan...
Day 1-3 feed & 3 min cuddle before sleep, with quiet talking
Day 4-6 feed, short walk, 3 min cuddle & quiet chat
day 6-9 feed, short  walk around house, short story, cuddle & quiet chat
day 10-12 feed, short activity story, cuddle etc
Three days seems to be long enough to adjust, but you might like change every 4 or 5 days if it seems to be too fast
But I would think that with in a month, you could probably have a good 1/2 to 1 hour space between the feeds (shorter at night) before naps & when he has a nap, so his association is with a story & cuddle & not the comforting of breast.
This sort of pattern worked well with Aiden, although we still get plenty of night wakeups with teething, colds & any other halfway reasonable excuse, but part of that is my dealing with his night wakings when preg & now I'm dealing with that.

[lulah'smum]

To me it just sounds like he is able to settle at the beginning of a sleep but has problems resettling.  All babies wake momentarily through the night after each sleep cycle and are able to put themselves back to sleep.  We do it as adults too but don't really notice that we've woken.  Other babies need mum's help to get back to sleep again.  This is the problem! 

I think your current routine and naps sound fine.  My DD is also 10 months.  She wakes at around 6.15am, has her first nap at 9.30am (1.5hrs) then her second at 2.30pm (1.5hrs).  Bedtime is 7pm.  She dropped the dreamfeed herself (she used to wake up for it too) once I weaned her onto formula recently.

I would say (and I know a few BW's might disagree here!) that you need to teach him how to resettle himself in the night.  When he starts crying, let him have a whinge for 5-10 mins or until he really gets to that "wound up" state.  Then go in and give him his dummy.  Do this every time he wakes, but let him really cry first.  It isn't really CIO as you're not leaving him for longer than 10mins at a time.  And at 10 months he knows he isn't being abandoned  :wink:

Do NOT feed him until 6am!

This is what I did with my DD when she was 6 months.  It took a good 4 weeks and was hard work but she now sleeps 11+ hours at night without waking.  And she is so much happier.

A bottle of formula before bed would probably help too! HTH!!

BTW, is there a Tresillian in Cairns?  They'd be able to sort you out!

[rachelle]

I haven't read all the replies, but did read some.  I think the wake time in the morning sounds about right.  DD #2 is 10 months, and is awake for 2.5-3 hours between sleeps. 

I agree that breastfeeding before nap may be a problem.  Try breastfeeding as soon as he wakes in the morning, before breakfast.  And then as soon as he wakes from a nap breastfeed before meals.  And then you'll have to replace that breastfeeding before nap with something else.  Maybe some quiet play for about 15 minutes, and then rock for a few minutes (not to sleep!!).

[lulah'smum]

Oh and I nearly forgot... I know it sounds obvious but make sure he isn't too hot or too cold... that definitely makes them wake up in the night.  And I agree about keeping the breastfeeds away from nap times.  Straight after food is a good time.

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

Oh good, others have given some fab advice.  Kate's plan of attack is really keeping in line with Tracy's philosophy and is a similar thing I did with Nathan when he had an early morning waking.  I changed the routine over 3 days gradually.  I was also going to suggest as Rachelle did that you will need to feed on wake up during the day rather than right before sleep - day sleeps really can impact those night wakings.

Gigi's mom, I'm wondering if your lo is experiencing a new developmental stage - did anything major happen around 6mths that resulted in you changing your routine or anything else - crawling etc.   Also it could be the start of separation anxiety which can come and go. When the problems started did you start to reinforce a new technique in helping your lo to self-sooth which has somehow taken over her ability to do it on her own?  How does she go to sleep at the start of the night?


HTH and good luck.