Sooooo confused and depressed!

[chell]

Have you seen the number of views this post has had? - well over 3000! Wonder what the highest number has ever been?

[oscar10405]

Thanks Mirshine - It helps to hear other Mum's feeling the same way.  I have been starting my day in tears lately and this is a worry because 'all-up' things are better.  I think i may be PND - might have a look on the PND boards.  I am not keen to go the GP because I'm not keen to go on antidepressants.  I just feel it's the loneliest job in the world!  I love my baby so much, and I know we're blessed but I'm finding it to be a really tough job.  I guess when you go to work, you have colleagues around you and other people often doing the same job as you etc but having a baby, especially with no family around, is really all your own job and sometimes it feels so overwhelming and isolating.  Anyway....enough of the sad stuff - people must think i am such a basket case.  I will try your suggestion of sitting him up!

Cheryl - I hear what you are saying.  The clinic knew that we would be changing things soon, given that he was close to six months. They sort of said "oscar will let you know when he's ready to drop the short nap etc)  Yeah, right!! 

Apart from yesterday, he's been doing two naps (1.5-2hours) and the shorter nap of 45 - 1 hour.  So....his last nap sees him get up around 5.00 - 6.00pm, so he will go to bed 2 hours after this, say anywhere from 7 - 8 pm.  I wonder if his last nap is too late in the day?  I guess to change his schedule to only 2 naps in the day, I would have to extend his wake time?  How do I do this?  I mean, how long should he be up for at 6months?  Blah blah - sorry - this is never-ending.  No wonder it's gotten so many views!!!  It's embarrassing!

He's all over the place - up at 5am this morning, I spent the next hour getting him back to sleep but he resisted until 6.20am so I fed him and we slept together till 7.30 - thus throwing the 4 hour EASY out again! Grrrrr!

I must be a bit dumb because I didn't understand your suggestion about feeding him early and letting him sleep the extra hour, then feeding him later? 

Cheryl - if you want to be tough - tell me to go read the book!!  I don't want to keep taking up your time!!!
xxx

[dbr]

Oscar's mom -

My son is one year old this week, and we just started Tracy's sleep program after I had almost given up on ever sleeping again. 

We have had some good progress, but still have some roadblocks to overcome.  I am particulary worried b/c I am three months pregnant with the next bundle o' joy.  Imagine THOSE nights if Zach does not learn how to sleep better! 

So, after the nanny unilaterally decided to alter one of Tracy's methods I asked her to implement today - and her modification backfired, I did what every mature woman does -- I called my mom in tears.   :cry:

After we got off the phone, a close family friend called her and sensed something was "off" in her voice.  My mom told her the situation, and Debbie laughed and said, "EVERY first mom feels lost sometimes!  I cried so much over my daughter's sleep problems . . ." 

For whatever reason, it finally hit me that those first time moms that say that have it all figured out -- sleeping, feeding, discipline, etc. -- are either crazy or lying.   :wink:

Also, a few weeks ago, I was feeling like NOBODY else I knew had sleep problems b/c they all said their babies "just started sleeping through the night on their own."  Well, when I asked for more details b/c I was trying to figure out how it was so EASY for them, I realized that every one of them had some difficulty teaching their child to sleep.  And some of those who said their babies "slept fine" - they consider 7 total nighttime hours of sleep "fine" for babies that are six months or older. 

Lastly, I did find Tracy's latest book pretty easy to follow.  I have to say, I had a hard time figuring out a step-by-step approach for "sleep training" with the first two.  But after reading certain chapters in the last book, which I was able to implement despite my own sleep deprivation, I have seen some very encouraging improvement.  I did just post some questions, but I never would have made this progress without Tracy's wonderful advice.

Good luck.

[oscar10405]

Thank you Briana - your words were very encouraging.  I need to read Tracy's book again - I have put it on the shelf for a while as I felt like all my spare time was taken up reading about it and it stressed me out more.  But now I have more specific problems, I should give it another shot!

I love the name Zach - Oscar was going to be a Zach.

xx

[chell]

Jane, I didn't realise you were still feeling so low. I guess with the lack of sleep, you are bound to be feeling like this. I felt depressed too when I was doing night feeds. It's fine you're not taking up too much of my time, I like chatting too. I would never tell you (or anyone for that matter) to toughen up. Where  do your family live? I know you live in the middle of nowhere, but I was wondering if there are any mum and babe groups which you could go to, to meet other people? It must be really hard not being near family. I wish you lived closer, I'd say pop over for a cup of tea or coffee.....or a glass of wine... or two (hmm, now there's a thought!). What work did you used to do before Oscar?

Things have been going to pot with Jacobs nap routine over the past week. Again,  because the nursery can't get him to nap in the morning he has been coming home very very tired. Then won't sleep or if he does its back to the 45 min napping. Thought I'd give wake to sleep another go (worked the first time but not the second) Wish I hadn't !! I woke the poor thing up! Then spent 20mins doing pu/pd! Oh well.

Oscar sounds very much like Jacob. I wouldn't worry about the fact that he sometimes wakes up at different times. Jacob does this too. I think there are lots of variables, like how many naps they've had, how much stimulation, what they've been doing and how they are feeling. After all they are little people!! :lol: Sometimes Jacob will wake happy and play but at other times he will wake up crying! I think its ok though if you want to try to get him to go back to sleep if its too early.

I know I didn't really make myself very clear about the routines & stuff. I'll carry on a bit laterxxx

[chell]

Hi, Really, you are doing really well on the napping front, you are achieving more than I did at that age.   So lets see, I'll try to explain what I meant. I think at the moment your routine goes something like this: ( correct it as necessary)

6.30  milk
8.30  nap 1.5 /2hrs
10.30 milk
12.30 nap
2.30   milk
4.30   nap - 45 mins
6.30   milk
7.00 bedtime

so if he still has milk at 6.30am but goes back to sleep until 7.30, it might look like this:

6.30 milk, sleep until 7.30
9.30 nap - if he wants to sleep 1.5 hours, I'd let him, but wake him      before the 2 hour mark, so you can catch up
11.00 milk
11.30 nap - 1.5 hours
1.00 awake
3.00 milk
3.00/just after milk nap - timing will be variable, but if he is tired because he has not had 2x2hours he can catch up
4.00 awake
6.00/7.00 depending on how hungry he is - milk
7.00 ish - bedtime.

Does this make sense? So he will still have 4 feeds 4 hours apart ( well, one is 4 1/2 hours, but that's ok) plus 2 hours awake times with 1.5 hour naps.

I think what is important is getting the four feeds in, and the 2-3 naps, not sticking to times too rigidly. Jacobs days are different and this is ok. You can train them to stick to times, but I think this will come with time.
I think things will get easier regards to night feeds when he's established on solids, so not long to go.

Haven't had time to check it all through so I hope it is right.
Hang in there. xxx

[oscar10405]

so if he still has milk at 6.30am but goes back to sleep until 7.30, it might look like this:

6.30 milk, sleep until 7.30
9.30 nap - if he wants to sleep 1.5 hours, I'd let him, but wake him      before the 2 hour mark, so you can catch up
11.00 milk
11.30 nap - 1.5 hours
1.00 awake
3.00 milk
3.00/just after milk nap - timing will be variable, but if he is tired because he has not had 2x2hours he can catch up
4.00 awake
6.00/7.00 depending on how hungry he is - milk
7.00 ish - bedtime.

Hi Cheryl!  Thanks again for your help.  With the second scenario (quoted above) - I think you meant activity at 11.30, because he went down at 9.30 for a nap. 

I think I might have to just play each day by ear, and as you say, not get too hooked up on times because every day is proving to be different!  I'll show you what happened yesterday.

6.15am wake and feed and fall asleep again!
7.30am Up
9.30am Nap (i gave him a top up here so he wouldn't wake hungry!)
11.30am Up and feed
1.30pm Nap
3.30pm Up and feed
5.30pm Nap
6.15pm Up
7.30pm Feed
8.30pm Bed

So....I did 'catch up' on feeds - but his 'bedtime' is later than usual.  He ended up waking up 9.30pm, 10.30pm (feed), 2am(feed) and 5am.  I put him back to sleep at 5am (rocked the cot till 5.30am!!) and he slept till 7.30am!!??  You would presume that he would be hungry since his last feed was at 2am?  NUP - not too interested at all.  :roll:  He was grizzly this morning too and tired so he went to bed at 9.20am for his nap. 

I know that I am the problem here - I am totally a control freak and like to know what to expect.  I would also like to put Oscar to bed at 7ish each night, but as you can see, it just doesn't work unless he gets up at 6.30am!  So, maybe I have to accept that each day will be different.  At least there's no screaming when we put him down for a nap, sometimes he smiles when I'm wrapping him and that's lovely. 

The nights are hard, I really am getting VERY tired but hopefully it's not for a long time to come too.  I wish you could come over for a drink too (Gin and Tonic is my choice!).  I am still very down, I'm not sure if I can do too much about that (other than adopt your attitude which is very hard if your not that way inclined!).  Lack of sleep, huge belly guts, thinning hair, being isolated from family, horror-mones etc....it all plays a part. 

It's more of a roller coaster ride - there are parts of the day when I'm happy - and Oscar really is a beautiful little man, so I'm lucky in many ways, I know.   

I say Tracy on our pay-tv yesterday (health channel).  I loved watching her but it made me very sad too.....

xxxx
[/i]

[chell]

Yea, that was a load of rubbish I wrote,wasn't it?!!  :lol: what it should have been is:
 so if he still has milk at 6.30am but goes back to sleep until 7.30, it might look like this:

6.30 milk, sleep until 7.30
9.30 nap - if he wants to sleep 1.5 hours, I'd let him, but wake him before the 2 hour mark, so you can catch up
11.00 up & milk 
1.00 nap 1.5 hours
2.30 up &  milk
4.30 nap -45 mins
5.15 up
6.30/7.00 depending on how hungry he is - milk
7.15  - bedtime.


So that would mean he would have
- 2 naps at 1.5 hours
                                                  -  1 nap at  45 mins
                                                  - 4 feeds during the day                                                     
-Still be in bed by 7pm.

I've made up the time by limiting naps to 1.5 hours, but you may not want to do this. You might also be able to gradually bring his bedtime back a little each night, if you stuck to the 2 hour naps and see if that works instead, he would probably need to be woken early from that last nap though.
Watching Tracys programmes makes me very sad too. Where does your family live?
xxx

[oscar10405]

Hello...yup, that makes sense.  I see that I would have to cut back his naps to 1.5 hours.  Last couple of days, his am nap has been 1.5 but his pm nap has been 2 hours (had to get him up!). 

He did the same today as yesterday, that is, woke up at 6ish, then tossed and turned, napped until 7.30am.  AGAIN - was not interested in milk?!!  I can only guess that he is too excited to start the day as he's not upset, just not interested.  He was a bit excited at 3am too, that was fun (not!). 

My family are in Canberra - down south.  We are smack-bang in the middle of Australia and as all the other other cities are place around the edge, it's a long way to any of them.  It would be about 5 hours of flying.

xxxx

[oscar10405]

:roll:  Hello again - he seems to be getting harder to resettle at the 40 minute mark too - weird because I had about 3 days where he did the 1.5 hours on his own (so I thought 'yippee!' no more 40 minute resettling!).  Man, oh, man.........this is just too hard!

[chell]

Hi, o dear! I found that Jacob would get the hang of it, then forget and we'd have to work a bit more on it. I think they do forget and regress a bit but the main thing is that it will come back if you stick to what you are doing. It's only when you change the plan that the unwanted behaviour will persist. I'm sure you'll be back on track in no time

That's great that he didn't want his milk, sounds as though he may be willing to give up a night feed?

Yea, 5 hours flying is a long way
xxx

[oscar10405]

Hi again.....I'm finding I'm getting a bit anxious about the approaching 6mth mark and what I should be doing with naps etc...

I read some more of Tracy's book but still am a bit unclear!! 

I've read the schedules of other 6mth old babies and it's so different from Oscar's and he's nearly that age?! 

As you know, I am doing 2 hours up, 2 hours down but I know I should work towards two naps in the day only.  What do you think Oscar's awake time should be?  What's the MAX maybe?  That might be easier for me!  ie no more than 2.5 hours.  I know, I know....every baby is different.

I feel like I'm not good at reading any 'signals'!!  Anyway.......got to go and watch Neighbours...bye bye

[chell]

Hi! I think its still supposed to be 2 hours of awake time, although I need to have a good think about it, ie how it fits into a routine, although with Jacob he always seemed to find this hard to cope with, he always wanted to have shorter awake times with frequent naps up until he was about 7months. I think it does depend on personality. I think your routine is sounding quite good, adn I wouldn't worry too much about trying to change it just yet. Although I would still experiment a bit, with trying to get his bedtime to around 7ish.

I also think it is normal for them to regress at day 3. I know you have been doing the routine for a while, but I am right in thinking this was the first time he had done it consistently for a few days in a row?

xxx

[oscar10405]

Hi - maybe.....?  Who knows...!  I'm certainly not a baby whisperer!

I read a post yesterday from someone who finds that her baby is always changing/regressing.  I think Oscar is the same.

I honestly think I could post new issues to you almost every day!

Better not though.............xxx

[chell]

Hello, me again    . I didn't really follow 4 hour easy properly, until Jacob was about 6 months. I tended to let him take the lead. Yea I don't think its all that clear in the book - about what to do at 6months. However, I think it might go something like this:

oops Jacob awake will finish later!