more nap questions

[jennc123]

I already have a post but its somewhere...anyway how long do you keep trying for them to nap, my daughter is notw not napping at all during the day, she is obly 5 months....its really starting to wear, after i put her in her crib she plays and won't sleep, how long should I let her play or do i just try again at a later nap time.  I am sick of rocking her to sleep, its getting old and now I can see she is relying on me to do so, she is so tired too, she is rubbing her eyes alot and her eyes are glassy etc.....she just won't give in!

[NatalyaW]

I only have a 7-week-old, so I can't vouch for its effectiveness, but have you tried PU/PD?

[tylersmommy]

Jenny-

Can you post what her daily routine looks like? That might help us figure out if the problem lies somewhere in the routine. Also, have you been rocking her to sleep all along, and you're now giving it up? If so, how did you do it? Sometimes abrupt changes, like giving up rocking cold turkey, can wreak havoc...it's better to gradually wean her off the rocking. I'll check back after you've posted some more info...hopefully I'll be able to help!

[jennc123]

well i am trying to follow the 3 hours easy slowing moving to a 4 hour easy, I am still rocking her, when she is just at that passed out state i put her down and no matter what 10 miutes later she wakes up and plays in her crib, babbling and such.  I really am starting to wear out here, she used to go down for her naps with no fight whatsoever...now she can roll over and its beena pain....

[tylersmommy]

Jenny-

"3 hour EASY" can look really different at different ages...a newborn on 3 hr EASY is going to have a dramatically different routine than a 5 month old. How many naps does she take? How much awake time does she have? Does she sleep through the night? There are a number of different things that could be causing her nap issues, and if I can get a better sense of what her day looks like, I might be able to help shed some light!

[jennc123]

well naps are hard, she used to (a month ago) go down ever morning for a great 2 hour nap, and the afternoon nap was always a struggle, if i was lucky she would have 3 naps . rare. I don't keep her up past 2 hurs between naps, and if she shows signs of crankiness, sleepyness i try putting her down earlier than that.  i have to always rock her for at least 20 minutes till she is at a somewhat very sleepy state, and of course she wakes up most of the time when i put her inher crib.  the waking has recently started more, its been worse since she turned 5 months and she used to sleep thru the night and now she is getting me up at 4, 5 am and not going back to sleep.  I usually have her in bed between 7:30 and 8 and she sleeps til i wake her at 11pm for a dreamfeed.  I have tried feeding her more thruout the day to avoid this 4 am waking stuff but its not waking, and she is breastfed so i can't ell how much she is getting.  She is a very active baby and I am wondering if this is just her tempermant.  when she naps good, she eats better etc....it just seems like there is no end in site here.  I may have to lock myself in the nursery and really do the PU/PD routine, but when i do it she gets even madder :cry: sorry for rambling, hope this makes sense.  I hope she is just going thru a phase but its probably my fault she is the way she is when it comes to napping and sleeping.

[jennc123]

you know when I put her in her crib awake and not crabby, she becomes crabby and or wants to play, even though she is so tired, eye rubbing etc...then she throws a fit and I know its because i rock her to sleep, not all the time but enough that she now relies on it ...I wonder if I need to have alonger wind down routine, for naps its pretty simple, i close the shades and rock her, maybe nurse her , which seems to calm her down, i know thats the wrong thing to do.    :?

[Arwyn's mom]

Hello Jenny,

My lo is 4 months 1 week and I just switched to the 4 hour EASY last week. My daughter was doing exactly what your lo is doing now. She used to sleep great for her naps and wake only once in the night. Then, starting about 3.5 weeks ago, she started having only very short naps or refused to nap at all and woke up 3 or 4 times a night! :shock:

1.5 weeks ago, I switched her to 4 hour EASY and really tried to stick to it (I found it hard to extend her nap before feeding). It took about 3 days for her to adjust to the eating schedule... then another 2 or so to adjust to the naps and night sleep. Now, she will nap during the day (although the 3rd nap is a little bit of a struggle) and puts herself to bed at night.

Not everything is peachy just yet though. We are still working on extending naps so they are longer than 45 minutes but at least she only wakes once in the night now. I usually nurse her at that time because she is an EBF baby.

This has been my experience in the last week and a half or so. I hope this helps.

[jennc123]

i am starting to do the 4 hour EASY schedule.  She is napping right now so i am going to write down how i want it to go, and try to stick to it. problem i am running into is this, when i put her down for her naps at a scheduled time and she fights me and screams and dosen't nap how long do I try to get her to nap , do I stay in that time range and give up when its time to eat again??? then she misses a nap?! is this what you do to get it to work?  I am going to see how this goes today, right now she is so tired but I will only let her sleep 2 hours, even though she had me up at 5am and didn't go back to sleep :cry:

[jennc123]

i know I am posting alot but I am wondering if i need to move her bedtime to ealier in the evening?  would that make sence?  when she was going to bed at 8:30 9pm she actually would sleep longer till 7 or 8 am, but if I keep her up that late she is sooooo cranky!  whats a mom to do???

[Arwyn's mom]

Hi Jenny,

Arwyn has not resisted going down for a nap for the entire duration of a nap time. In the beginning when I started EASY, she would resist but eventually went down after 15-20 minutes of pu/pd. Just recently, I pu/pd for an hour to extend her nap. Torture to her her cry but I really wanted to extend her nap time.

When Arwyn does miss a nap due to visitors, etc. and it is close to nursing time, I nurse her as close to her scheduled time as possible (and try not to let her fall asleep cuz she will) and then change her diaper (as her activity) and then put her to sleep. This messes up the EASY a little bit but I loathe to have her miss a nap. Also, I don't wake her up if she wants to sleep longer unless it is the late afternoon nap.

Good luck with this. I printed a 3 & 4 hour EASY off this website. I believe it is under "announcement" in one of the forums. I have this posted beside my computer and I just tweak it for when Arwyn gets up or goes down for a nap.

I try to get in her naps whenever I can even if her schedule is disrupted. For example, we were out this morning and she only napped for 45 minutes in her stroller (after putting herself to sleep) and so she is napping now (hopefully for another 45 min) before I nurse her at 3. If we stay at home, I try to get her naps as consistent as possible by trying to extend them with pu/pd.

Just stick with it... you're doing just great!

[jennc123]

so far today she has had 2 little naps, and is crying right now for her third, the first one was a little over an hour and the 2nd was 45 minutes, this is so horrible..she fights it so much..off to PU/PD for the third :roll:

[tylersmommy]

Hi Jenny-

Sorry you're having such a hard time right now! Based on what you've told me, I'd go to a 3.5 hr routine and stick to that for a week or so and see what happens. I had Tyler on a 3.5 hr routine around that age for awhile and it worked out great...4 hr EASY didn't click well for us until he dropped his 3rd nap, but that's just us. Once you get to 3.5 or 4 hr EASY, whichever you do, stick with it. Consistency day in and day out will help her body adjust and hopefully get those naps to lengthen. She may just be a short napper, though...Tyler was, and our routine most days was more EASAE. I just kept his feeds on schedule, waking him when necessary and ensuring I wasn't feeding to sleep.

As for skipped naps, yes, you'd continue doing PU/PD or pat/shh or whatever it is for the duration of the whole nap, if needed. If the nap gets skipped, you may have to readjust the rest of the day. Keep in mind, now that she's getting older and more aware of the world, she may be needing a bit more wind down before sleeps. Make sure she's getting some quiet activity time before the nap routine starts to help her wind down a bit.

Keep us posted...HTH!

[jennc123]

thank you, yes i am thinking I am going to do a 3 1/2 hour easy, the 4 just isn't working right now.  I took her for a walk for her wind down and then we played in the grass, which she loves but she is a very perceptive baby and I may have to incorporate more of a longer downtime for her.  Is it true that when you put themn down earlier at night they sleep longer? or am i imagining this?

[tylersmommy]

Is it true that when you put themn down earlier at night they sleep longer? or am i imagining this?

Generally speaking, yes, this is true. I'd venture to say that's how it works for most babies. It never worked that way for us, though! :roll:

[jennc123]

well still working on this nap thing...its so frustrating!!!!  she fakes me out, she will fall asleep in my arms and when i put her down she sleeps for 5 minutes, then I hear her playing in her crib after that, aren't babies supposed to like sleeping?  some days she will nap great and others she won't nap at all.  I just read that at her age she should be napping 2 times per day at at least 1 1/2-2 hours and 11 hours at night, not this kid, I feel like this won't ever end!

[jennc123]

so here is another one, what if she wants play during her naptime, she has been talking, babbling and playing with her feet when she is supposed to be sleeping?

[Arwyn's mom]

My little one wants to play and such during nap time too. If it has gone on past 15 minutes, I go in there and pick her up and tell her it is time to nap. I will pat and shush to let her know it is sleep time as this is our usual routine. Normally, this will make her cry when she realizes that it is nap time. I hate it but... Once she is crying, I do pu/pd or pat/shush until she is asleep. It depends on what kind of cry I get.

This is a frustrating process :cry: but now Arwyn is more willing to go down for a nap and it is relatively easier to extend her naps during the day. It only takes me about 10 minutes to extend her naps now. Comparatively, I used to pu/pd and pat/shush for over 25 minutes at least. I have been working on extending her naps for about 3 weeks.

The first time I tried to extend her nap, I did pu/pd for 1 hour! This was after 2 weeks of little or no naps and disrupted night sleeps. I was truly desperate for her to have longer naps as she was so overtired that I had a cranky baby most of the late afternoon and evening. Also, she was waking up every 1.5 - 2 hours or so during the night.  :shock:

You also asked about putting your lo down earlier to sleep longer. This worked for us. When Arwyn was about 11 weeks, we started to try some BW techniques and that included putting her down earlier. We changed her bedtime from 11 pm to 8 pm. She went down and did not wake up until her normal wake time around 1 - 2 am. So, in my opinion, I just gave my lo 3 more hours of sleep so I stuck with it. She now goes to bed at 8 pm on a regular basis.

I found it tough to stick to EASY when we are working out "blips" -- such as naps. Some days, our routine does not remotely resemble EASY and we just take the next day as a new day. I do have little meltdowns... we had one Friday where I thought I was missing out on her infancy. As a result, I let her stay up from her naps to play with her. Her resulting meltdown was through the night -- she reverted back to waking up every 1.5 hours. I decided then, that extending her naps during the day were so worth the effort!  :!:

Roll with the punches... some just hit harder than others.  :wink:

Hope this helps! Keep us posted!

[Aarismom]

I'm all for earlier bedtimes. We went from putting ours down at 9 pm and struggling with naps to putting her down between 6 and 7 pm. Now she sleeps 12-13 hours at night with no feedings, and still takes 1-2.5 hour naps 2x a day, and occasionally a cat nap before bedtime for a total of 16-17 hours of sleep a day. And boy is she thriving. Occasionally we have "blips" as well, she might wake up once a night and start crying, but it usually doesn't take much to get her back to sleep. And of course the normal struggle with growth spurts.

Although I can't wait until she starts waking because she wants to "practice" new things...*sigh*. Now we're dealing with the "I'm gonna sit here and talk to myself, and when mommy and daddy check on me I'm gonna pretend I'm asleep" routine.

*HUGS*
Sonya =P

[Erin M]

Jenny-
My LO is almost the same age as yours (she was born March 6th) - and I have a couple of thoughts.

I would bet the night wakings are due to overtiredness.  I know when Katie doesn't sleep well during the day, she wakes at night for pretty much no reason at all. 

I know you mentioned awake time.  I find that I get short naps when Katie's awake time isn't long enough.  Currently, we do best with just over 2 hours awake time (we do 4 hour EASY for the most part, sometimes a bit closer to 3.5 hours).  Often though I find she doesn't take 2 long naps in a day.  If I get a long one in the morning, I almost never get a long one in the afternoon and vice versa.  (And try as I might, I can only get her to catnap if she's taken two short naps during the day, but that seems to suit her just fine.)  Also, sometimes she looks quite tired after about an hour and a half in the morning, but if I put her to bed right away, she doesn't sleep long.  Usually I'll bring her to her room and play with her quietly for at least a half hour more and that usually helps her to nap longer.  (Sometimes it backfires and she gets overtired.)

Earlier bedtime is definitely a good option.  We start getting ready for bed around 7 and she's usually asleep by 7:45 at the latest.  She sleeps until around 7 - 7:30 every morning. 

Good luck, hope some of this helps.
-Erin

[jennc123]

well things are going a lot better, I have just been very persistent with her and a schedule. it goes something like this:

7-7:30 am- wake and breastfeed
8amish-cereal with fruit
9-9:30am-1st nap (hopefully for 1 1/2 hours to 2)
11- Breastfeed
12-lunch with solids
1 or 1:30- 2nd nap (hopefully)
3pm- breastfeed
5pm- catnap (this rarely happens)
6:30-bath, massage, book
7pm-breastfeed
bedtime- between 7-8pm, whenever i get her down
10:30- dreamfeed (bottle)

she has been sleeping thru the night the lat few night and getting up between 6:30 and 7am, I can hear her and I just let her play in her crib. till 7.  her morning nap goes very well but the afternoon nap is still hit or miss and the catnap just dosen't happen :cry: ...but its getting better.  I don't have to rock her as much anymore unless she is completely out of sorts and can't make the transition herself.  I have been doing the pu/pd method with shushing and its seems to be working...slowly.

[jennc123]

well as I type this she seems to have regressed back towards 45 minute naps ..i just can't believe this, and last night she woke up at 3am hungry, which she hasn't done in a long time and wouldn't go back to sleep till 5am! and then slept till 8am.  could she be hitting her 6 month growth spurt early?  I wonder is she is getting enough milk, she is horrible at the breast lately, wantys to play rather than nurse sorry to post so often but I really feel I have gotten the most help from everyone here and I don't really have any friends where i live that have babies.  when i pick her up and tall her its time to sleep again and put her back down on her tummy she rolls over and wants to play, with her feet, the mobile etc.....should I remove the mobile?

[jennc123]

just curious, if anyone sees this but if naps are bad during the day does it mess up the "routine" to put them to bed earlier like say 6ish or 7ish when i start to notice her rubbing her eyes and yawning about this time instead of keeping her on her 7:30 bedtime?

[Matthew's Mommy]

If you are having a wonky nap day, then a bed time between 6-7 pm is fine.  Anything later and you may have a very fatigued baby on your hands!