Need help with breastfeeding

[Sabine]

Hello,

I am new to this site.  I just finished the book and thoroughly enjoyed it!! MJ is 8 weeks old.  I started him on EASY a few weeks ago.  His birthweight was 9 lbs 13oz.  He is currently 14lbs 9 oz. 

I am breastfeeding every 2.5-3 hrs.  My concern is that he feeds well for the first 10 minutes and then stops and suckles and it takes almost an hour to feed him (this includes me doing breast compressions). I usually single side feed him since I had some oversupply issues early on.  Now I am concerned he isn't taking a full feed b/c he will fall asleep after 10 minutes.  He had done this since birth.  After his feed, he wakes and is alert and happy.  He does have shorter naps and tends to wake hungry at which point I feed him.  He has lots of wet diapers and 2-4 BM's a day.  He is also waking every 2.5-3 hrs overnight.  I feed him by the EASY schedule and dream feed him (small feed at 10pm).

I have done a yield and can pump from 4-5 oz per breast. 
My breasts however still feel full after he feeds.
 
Any advice on how to know he is getting a full feed even if he only drinks for 10 minutes?  In the book it also said after 8 weeks he should be sleeping longer stretches and he isn't...what am I doing wrong??? 

Please help.

SP

[Katet]

Big boy territory is my speciality & yours is on the big end of the scale if my conversion to kg is correct (I think in kilograms)

 I think if you do a yeild & get 4-5oz, then you are producing a good amount. based on wet diapers & BM & weight, your baby is gettin plenty. Infact, I think you are doing exactly what I did with my first & over feeding as you are mixing tired signs for hunger signs.

Also as he is big, 10mins is probably all the feed he needs, if he is falling asleep while feeding then he is using you as a human pacifier. my ds #2 has never fed longer than 10mins (after his first week of life), mostly about 5mins & is a very big boy. my ds #2 will wake more at night if I feed him more frequently in the day than 3.5 hours (he's 3mo) ideally I'd feed him 4 hourly but he sleeps too long at night to get 5 feeds in.
I think your ds is actually waking crying from the short naps because he is still tired & not because he is hungry, esp if he actually falls asleep during the feed.
Do you try to resettle him after he wakes. I would suggest you don't feed him in less than 3 hours otherwise he will be snacking & if he sleeps less than 1 hour you need to resettle him, before deciding to feed him.. you should keep trying to get him back to sleep for about 45mins. his sleeps need to be at least 1.5 hours long & working towards 2 hours, with a big baby, you would be looking at a 3.5 hour easy at 3 months. there is a direct link between catnaping babies & night waking, which I think is actually your situation... I discovered all this with my ds#1, who by 3mo was waking more at night than as a newborn & when I spread out his feeds, he slept better.

[mommytsa]

I had exactly the same concerns, and can echo what Kate said about mistaking tired signs for hunger signs.  It's totally normal for some babies to only eat for 10 minutes and fill their tummies, especially if you have oversupply issues.  I was going to a breastfeeding support group while on maternity leave and I did before and after feed weights to see how much he had eaten, and one day in about 15 minutes he wolfed down an incredible 8 oz!   :shock:   And guess what, even after that (which he ended up throwing up half of anyway), my breast (single side feeding) still didn't feel empty, just not totally engorged. 

About the longer sleep stretch, I am in the process of spreading out his feeds  from 3 hours to 3.5, and have noticed a big improvement in his general attitude toward going to sleep, if not so much in the length of sleep yet (we're on day two of 3.5 hr EASY).  I would suggest that when he wakes up and seems hungry, first try pat/sh or giving him a paci (if that's something you want to do-don't do it just because I said, and realize that eventually you'll have to wean it away anyway, so it might be more trouble than it's worth).  That's how I eventually figured out when DS was actually hungry versus just wanting to suck to go back to sleep though, so that's why I put it on here.  In the beginning, I told myself that if DS woke up anytime before 2 am, he couldn't be hungry (I do a 10 pm dreamfeed), and I wasn't going to feed him, but I'd just get him to go back to sleep.  sometimes that worked, sometimes it didn't, but the mindset seemed to help me feel like I was the one in control at 1:00am when he was crying and I wasn't nursing him back to sleep.

You are not doing anything wrong, and anytime you worry about how much he's getting, just remind yourself that as long as wet and poopy diapers and weight seem to be fine, he'll be fine.  You don't have to worry about every feed because if he doesn't get quite enough in one, he'll just suck harder and get it the next time (even if it doesn't take any longer).  He's a very big boy, and sometime soon his explosive growth is going to slow down and you're going to wonder if by stretching out his feeds you're slowing his growth.  That was me 2 weeks ago.  You're NOT hurting him!!  I found a growth chart for breastfed babies, and you can see that it slows down a lot after 2 months.  From the sound of things, MJ is at the very top of the chart, and to me, that says he's getting plenty.  If a baby is hungry, he will tell you! 
http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/growthcharts.html

Sorry this was so long, but I had so many of the same questions and problems, and got such good advice here (thanks Kate!  :wink: ) that I like to pass along the good vibes!

[zayandme]

yup, yup, could have come straight from my mouth! So I won't give any more suggestions except for SP to take the advice of these women! Hope it helps and please keep us updated.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

You got some good advice from the ladies.  It's hard to get to know your baby's cues - and it's easy to become a human pacifier :roll: .  But 10 min is a good amout of time for an 8 week old to feed - like the other posters said, if he's gaining weight well and has enough dirty diapers, then he's getting the milk. He just likes to suck himself to sleep!  :wink: Don't worry - you're not doing anything wrong - you're just getting used to being a breastfeeding mom! 

[mommycarrie]

When DS was 8 weeks he still wanted to fall asleep too, but then so did I.  :wink:   I can't remember when exactly that the sleepiness wore off but it did.  Until then I would burp him or change him until he was more alert then go back at it.  He was a bigger baby too at 8lbs 12oz, but not as big as yours...ouch :shock:

He has also been anywhere from a 7-12 min drinker since about 6/7 weeks.  I used to get the same yields you do, but not anymore.  Just remember that your body is still adjusting to his needs and when babies nurse, they can get more out of us than we can in a yield.  It was about the 3 month mark when I noticed I didn't need to wear breast pads anymore.  I don't know if supply peters off for everyone but that is what I have heard and what I am experiencing.

I am even still worring about my supply because I don't get as full as I used to...I feel deflated  :wink:   But he is happy, content and growing and that's enough for me.  I think it will always be on my mind though.

I agree about not feeding any sooner than 2.5, preferably 3 hours apart.  If you think he's hungry at say 2 or 2.5 hours, see if you can hold off until 2.5 or 3 before feeding.  He should then take in one good feed after another.

I hope this helps,
Carrie

Oh, I also wanted to add that I didn't believe it at firsst, but they can cry in their sleep.  When DS does this I usually just let him be but sometimes I go in and have to 'shush' until he calms down.  He then goes back to a deep sleep.  Good luck

[stasztk]

Holy cow, this story sounds like me! My lo birth weight was 9lbs 4oz and now weighs a whopping 14.4lbs!

[Katet]

gosh girls, I will win the big baby competition anyday...
Aiden born 8lb14oz, at 3mo,  just under 18lb (at age 2 he is 15kg... haven't go a graph to do the conversion, but about 33lb, so more average now)
Liam born 10lb,4oz at 3mo, 18lb also!!
Thus why I feel able to answer questions on big babies!!!

Difference between my 2 boys is length... Liam has always been a good 1.5 -2 inches longer than Aiden.  Liam actually has the record for the longest baby ever born at the hospital I had him at !!

[milliesmaw]

Hi all - hope you don't mind if I join this thread. I was so delighted to find it!! DS is 4 weeks old and weighed in at 9lb 5. He is now 12lb 10 and put on a pound last week. I find this quite bemusing as my DD was teeny and was Ben's current weight at 25 weeks :shock: As of last week I realized that the hour long nursing sessions were me misreading the cues and v often he is overtired and needing to sleep for longer.

I'm not doing EASY strictly at the moment but would you suggest that I  stretch out feedings to 2.5/3 hours? I find this is ok during the day but at night it is a nightmare :evil:  I am feeling so tired and miserable. He wakes every 2 hours and given his weight I know that he's not hungry he's looking for comfort but I find it v difficult to get him to settle without nursing. I'm not using a paci as I didn't with DD and she found her fingers ok and i don't feel confident using one sensibly...

Any tips for resettling? I feel like I really need a plan to get through the nights and to decrease the night wakings and not inrease them!!!

TIA

Jo

[Katet]

Jo given his weight & he's 4wo, I would work on 3 hours & maybe 2.5 in the evening. Your life sounds just like I had with Aiden & I only had him, with a toddler you must be so shattered... I'm kind of glad I learnt these things with #1
I worked out that big babies are a bit different, as Liam could do 6 hours from the first week & then suddenly he stopped doing it. He did have a bit of a growth spurt at 10 days but then was waking 11.30, 2, 4.30 & 6/6.30 overnight & I was doing 3 hour EASY in the day & I thought hang on here as he didn't really feed properly at most of them
So I used a paci... after having a paci addict last time, I have worked out the way to use it successfully & being a mother of 2, it has been useful when Liam (#2) is over tired & Aiden is demanding my attention & there is no way I can get quiet to settle Liam easily... I can tell you my tricks if you want to go down that route - I recon I will have him weaned by 4 mo!
Once I got the night wakings reduced I had a much better idea of the feeding needs.
Does Ben suck on your finger... as you could try to settle him with a suck on your finger... with Liam, he did it pretty much as it is described in the book. he had the paci for 10mins, I had to give it to him twice & then it was done, it took 3 nights where I worked on both the 11.30 & the 4.30 at the same time.
But I truely think if you can stretch his day feeds out to 3 hours & get him having a good 2hour sleep between feeds - well most feeds(he should have 45min-hour awake time) then you should see some improvement at night. if he falls asleep on the breast or sucking slows down take him off (if he looks like he wants more offer it, but try to limit his comfort sucking so he doesn;t get tired from sucking (I'm lucky with Liam he is a fast feeder, but Ben sounds just like Aiden was) anyway if it is near nap time, change his nappy or try to arouse him & then out him down for the nap, or if it is a bit early... have some activity, then the nap
feel free to ask more, I hope it works for you as I know what slow frequent feeders do to sleep...or lack of.
PS take one day at a time & I think allow a  bit of time for it to get better too.

[milliesmaw]

Hi Kate - thanks so much for your prompt reply. I was having a bad day so it made me feel more human! DD goes to childcare for part of the week and  we have kept her in that routine which is the only way I can get anything done :oops: I am also blessed with a very domestically  capable DH :lol:

I forgot to mention that having realized Ben is often over tired and not hungry, his feeding time has gone right down to about 15 minutes. If he falls asleep after 5 minutes then I change his nappy and pop him back on. I then attempt to wake him, do some activity and try to put him down for a nap. However today he was just not wanting to nap and was waking after 20 minutes. I managed to get him down at 1pm and that's nearly 2 hours so I've managed to have a sleep myself! It's amazing how good you can feel on 45 minutes kip!

Ben only woke once at night in his first two weeks and now wakes at the times you describe - although I lose count so it sounds like a similar pattern. He does get drowsy if he sucks my finger so will try that - I do find it difficult to have resolve at that time of the day/night.

Still not sure about the paci but it might make sense if i'm using my finger! Will work on 3 hour days and 2.5 evenings and as you say if I can concentrate on getting the day feeds sorted hopefully the nights will come together!

Thanks again  -


Jo

[Katet]

Jo, I know how you feel I love the day Aiden is in childcare...today, it is the busiest day now as I do all the things it is easier to do without a toddler.
Just noticed Ben's Birthday...  same as Aiden's, makes him a Leo, hope he isn't as much of a firey one as Aiden is!
Hang in there & I know how hard it is at night, it is so easy to just say, oh bother I will just feed you, but it was at that point I found the paci, was good, as I popped it in, sat & chilled out & when he spat it out I offered it again, I kind of said, I would feed if he wasn't off to sleep in 1/2hour, but each time it took 20mins & decreased  & he went back to sleep for 2 hours.

All that said, last night we had our worst night in ages. Liam woke at 11.30, then 2.30 & 5.30, I didn't feed at 2.30 ( he was wet) but I fed at 11.30, which I wouldn't normally as yesterday was disrupted, we had a Sydney BW get together (great to meet other mothers her) & Liam had a nap in the car, 40min trip & I wanted to feed him there, but he would have nothing of it so went 6.5 hours without a feed...I discovered why when we got home & I gave him tummy time, he has a cold!! poor fellow, it took him nearly an hour to get to sleep (with my help...very unusual) & then added to which Aiden woke screaming (nightmares I think0 so I ended up sleeping on a mattress on the floor of his room... oh well the plus side was I don't get to snuggle up to him & hold his hand sleeping much!