How to encourage independent sleep for 8 month old

[SEP's Mom]

I'm not going to delve into my story too much this time, but will answer any questions you may have.  I want to focus on exact questions I have.  Just to summarize my story, he was an independent sleeper who did have some setbacks and we always got back on track, but when the last setback coincided with stopping swaddling his upper body we couldn't get back on track.  We still swaddle his legs, or else he gets up onto his hands/knees or sit or mostly grabs his feet/sucks his toes.   As I read posts throughout the different boards, I'm hearing different advice or hearing new things that I have never heard before.  It seems to me that once they hit a certain age, the technique for encouraging independent sleep changes, which I didn't know about.     

When I put my ds down for a nap/bed, do I vacate the room immediately or sit where he can see me or stay there until he is asleep or calm?  What if he cries immediately?  Do I pat him until he's calm or just until he stops crying or do I pick him up and put him down again?  If I pick him up, how long do I hold him for?  Is it an immediate up/down, do I hold him until he stops crying, or until he is calm?   Do I use shhh or calming words?  Do I shh/use calming words the whole time or only if he is crying?  Do I shh softly or loudly in his face?  What do I do if as soon as I put him down he rolls around/plays (our main problem)?  Do I pat him, pick him up, or leave him?  When do I go to him - when I hear him playing or only if he cries (and what kind of cries/noise/raspberries/babbling do I ignore)?  Do I pick up or pat/sh?

How long do you think it will take for him to fall asleep the first time with this technique?  20 minutes or an hour plus?  Just so I know what to expect.  My current technique is to lay my hand on him until he is calm/laying still, I pat if he cries or fidgets way too much, then I remove my hand once he is doing the 7 mile stare and step back.  If he is rolling or grabbing the rails aggressively, I pick him up and reposition him (sometimes he thinks this is a game).  If he gets really upset, I pick him up, but that rarely calms him.  If he is super upset, I take him to the bathroom in the dark to calm him.  This technique takes 5-20 minutes although at times it may take 40-60.

I breastfeed him if he wakes between 5 or 6 even though he may not necessarily appear hungry.  Should I skip that feeding?  I feed him between 7:30 and 8:00 when he goes to bed.

Thank you.

[lil'monkey]

Wow, that's a lot of questions!  I'll tell you how I do things and maybe that will answer some of your questions.

DD falls asleep on her own since 4.5 mos and things were relatively fine.  When she hit 6-6.5 mos, it was really hard to get her to take naps.  I do the same wind down routine but shorter and then leave the room. 

If she fusses, I let her be b/c if I'm in there she gets more upset or not sleep at all.  If after 20 min and she is not asleep, I take her out of the crib and have quiet play and try again in 5-10 min (works 90% of the time).  If she cries, then I go in and pat and say my key words and leave or get out of sight.  I do this every few min but at the same time listen to her cries to determine if her cries are changing to a settling cry or "I NEED you mommy!".  If it is the latter, then I pick her up and gently sway till she is calm then gently lay her back down ( rarely have to do this).   I ignore all sounds she makes unless it is a cry.  I've made the mistake of going in too soon and it just made the situation worse.

IF she naps and cries at the 45 min mark, I do the same thing as above.  I've found that the more dd is aware of me in the room when she is trying to fall asleep, the more upset she is unless she REALLY need my presence.  I remember Jane (Mathewmommy) stating this in one of her postings.

I did this for about 2 weeks before dd went back to her old self.

I think that your technique is fine.  After a while your lo will learn to expect this and settles quicker.  Also keep in mind your lo's temperment.  PU/PD does not agree with dd so I don't do it but for other babies it works!  HTH

[SEP's Mom]

I just put him down.  I did a pre wind down of walking around the block in my arms.  Then sat in the rocking chair with him.  I was going to do that for 15 minutes, but after 5 he went from really calm to arching his back fighting to get out of my arms.  So, I put him down and walked out and it instantly turned into playing and making noise with a little fuss crying after 5 minutes that didn't last long, but not hard crying.  Nothing, according to advice, that needs reassuring, although nothing that sounded like he was winding down.  I went back in after 15 minutes when he was sounding super rambunctious.  He was all smiles and that seemed to get him even more excited.  I took him out and sat with him for another 5 minutes.  This time he didn't appear calm at all.  He was wanting to go play.  I put him back in the crib.  Now he is super fussy and not playing.  I guess I'll go in and pu/pd.  Any advice.  How long should this go on?  So far it's been 30 minutes.  I don't forsee him going to sleep anytime soon when he's crawling around in there on his hands and knees.

Okay, I just went and pu/pd.  I put him down when he is calm, but what is the definition of calm.  When he's not crying anymore?  Or when he is relaxed again.  As soon as he stops crying, I put him back in and he starts crying before his head hits the crib.  Can I do pat/sh instead?  That seems more effective. 

Right now he's screaming on top of his lungs.  He'll do like 10 loud shrill screams then almost like a mantra cry that peters out then silence then 10 loud screams all over again.  I went in and patted during a shrill scream, he instantly closed his eyes and continued a mantra like cry.  I have been stopping and leaving quickly as I don't want to pat him to sleep.  He starts up right away.  This last round he didn't give out as many shrill screams and he is now asleep, but isn't that alot like letting him cry it out?

Please comment.  It only took 60 minutes, which really isn't that bad.  But I really question if what happened was him crying himself to sleep and how effective my technique was.

I know the baby whisperer can work as he was an independent sleeper for the first 6 months of his life, but not since then.  I've tried getting him back on track, but have been unsuccessful.  I know technique changes after 6 months, but I don't think I understand it.

[lil'monkey]

I sorry to hear that your day wasn't good.   3 things came to mind as I read your post.

1.  A walk outside usually gives dd that extra energy, so i only do this right before naps.  Could it be that the walk gave him that second wind?  I could be wrong but maybe try having him in the room in low light for 30 min prior to naptime.  Low light helps dd get to sleep mode.  Again, you know him best. 

2.  Calm to me is when dd is no longer crying and is breathing softly.  Whenever she is crying hysterically, i would pick her up and gently sway till she is calm.  Then I put her down.  Everytime I put her down, I always say the key words and give a pat or two. 

3.  If pat/shh is more effective for you then you should use it.  i don't have a lot of experience with pu/pd as dd hate it.  So I use a modified gentler version of it ( I got the idea from another book and several moms).  If you are not comfortable with pu/pd then don't use it especially if this is the first time you are using it. 

It is always tough when training/retraining them to sleep but the key is consistency in your method(s).  BTW, I don't think you did cio as you were there to help him fall asleep and not abandon him.  Again, you need to know his temperment and act accordingly.   I found that once I'm in tune with dd, I can plan my course of action more effectively.  Once again, I hope that I'm being helpful.