Author Topic: Does Wake-to-Sleep work for extending naps? (Read 14660 times)

MyBella · « **on:** September 01, 2005, 23:31:24 pm »

Still struggling with 6 mo dd's 30 min naps. We have been going in at the 20-25 min mark to extend for the past few days with not much success. She get stimulated very easily so we don't do p/sh. She's now sleeping only about 1.5 hrs all day made up of 3 short naps. And because she's also waking up and playing at night even though she's in bed for 12 hrs, I suspect she's probably only sleeping about 10.5 net. As a result, right now I have an overtired baby. I don't know how to break the cycle. Has anyone tried the WTS method to extend naps? Has it worked?

Thanks.

heather10 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 01, 2005, 23:37:28 pm »

Matthewsmommy here was talking with me about this last week and mentioned that it can work for extending naps. I'd certainly give it a try.

MyBella · « **Reply #2 on:** September 01, 2005, 23:40:22 pm »

Oh, really? Sure would like to try something else since the other things don't seem to be working.

How does WTS differ from trying to extend the naps? Are you supposed to actually wake her? How long before the jolt are you supposed to do it? What if she wakes up totally and doesn't go back down? How many days/weeks would it take for it to succeed? So many questions, but I'm desperate...

Maggie's Mom · « **Reply #3 on:** September 02, 2005, 01:00:35 am »

I've been trying this and I think that we're getting somewhere, but I'm not sure. I go in at 25 min and put a hand on my LO and then shush when she stirs. I think I started by patting and shushing, but now only have to shush sometimes (I made it through once yesterday with no shush at all!). I stay till 45 min (20 min total). So, sometimes I feel like we're making progress, and other times I don't (see my post from this afternoon!). It doesn't work as well when I go in for the second and third rounds (at an hour 10 min, etc). I don't know if this is really considered WTS? Or if I'm just setting myself up as a prop? Oh, and I turn away so she can't see my face if her eyes do open b/c that distracts her.
I'm also dealing with the always overtired baby, but she is getting more daytime sleep since I started this, so I'm hoping we're breaking the cycle. Good luck! I'm interested to hear how it goes if you try this.

MyBella · « **Reply #4 on:** September 02, 2005, 01:09:27 am »

Maggies mom,
Is what you're doing considered WTS? Because what you're describing is what we've been doing - going in at the 20-25 min and keeping a hand on her as she stirs and trying to get her to fall back asleep. We haven't been able to extend much with this method. It also hasn't helped to extend the awake times - only results in a more overtired baby who takes even shorter naps...

Lucysmom · « **Reply #5 on:** September 02, 2005, 01:19:35 am »

Beril - I don't know why it is called wake to sleep but it is called that in the book (around page 228 there is a description of it). Tracy says you can either do wake to sleep or pu/pd to extend naps. Maggie's Mom I am with you in not understanding how patting or putting your hands on the baby are not props. But I am desperate for my dd to nap longer so that she does not end up overtired and screaming like a wild animal at bedtime. :shock:

I have been doing this for 10 days and things don't seem to be getting any better.

Sorry you're also dealing with a short napper. My dd is also textbook/spirited by the way.

Take care...

Maggie's Mom · « **Reply #6 on:** September 02, 2005, 22:38:14 pm »

I have not been extending wake times--my LO is usually only up for an hour and a half, maybe 2 hours before I put her down. I can definitely tell the difference if she stays up longer--she is more tired and fights sleep more (today has not been much fun!). Some days I've gotten her to sleep for over 5 hours! and she still gets tired before 1.5 hours awake. Not five hours at once, and certainly not quality sleep, but you'd still think she wouldn't be as tired after all that?
To keep my sanity, my goal has been to start by getting her to nap more than 45 minutes first (so anything over 45 is progress!) and then as that's gotten better, now I'm working on making them longer than 1.5 hours, and so on.
Beril, you mentioned that your DD gets distracted by the shush-pat, have to tried just putting a hand on her (no pat) and shushing? Sometimes that works better for me.
Maggie is Angel/Spirited and we've been at this 10 days, too!

MyBella · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2005, 21:39:52 pm »

8 days of pu/pd to extend naps and getting rid of paci. We've made some progress with naps, I've actually gotten a 50 min and a 40 min one today. But w/o the paci she's just more grumpy going down. We have a lot more fussing and crying. I miss the days when dd used to be able to calm down easily and fall asleep even without the paci. She's really fighting sleep...

Carys' mom · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2005, 22:02:22 pm »

Hi,

I'm in the same boat with our almost 7-month-old dd. Today, she's only had a total of 1.5 hours of nap time and is now a weepy basket case. She keeps waking between 30 and 40 minutes after going down. It's very difficult to get her to go back to sleep because she's spirited and a very alert little girl. I haven't tried WTS because I thought it would be too stimulating for her being spirited and all. Has anyone had success with WTS during naps with a spirited baby yet? I'd be interested to know.

Thanks...

MyBella · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2005, 22:57:21 pm »

Melanie,
My experience is identical to yours word for word! I've tried WTS w my spirited one, but I think the fact that she sees me when she wakes up from a short nap stimulates her even more, and our life is all about keeping stimulation to a minimum. DD does not stop even for a second, constantly moving, looking around, reaching for things, kicking, etc. etc. So I can't say that WTS has worked for us. We are also averaging about 1.5hrs total in naps right now. I sometimes get 2 hours, but that takes a lot of persistence and effort. Yesterday, she slept only 1 hour made up of two short naps in an entire 12 hr period! I'm trying pu/pd now to extend naps, pm me if you'd like to know more or commiserate...

Travis' Mom · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2005, 03:23:28 am »

I will throw out some suggestions to you and see if anything helps. What are you doing when your LO wakes up? Are you rushing in? Maybe they can put themselves back to sleep if you leave them for 10 minutes before intervening. How much activity do they have before they go down? What sort of feeding routine are they on?
I used the WTS to get a later morning wake time and extending naps and it did work for me. I just go in and jostle his legs or tummy until I get a stir or a turned head or something to let me know I interrupted his sleep and then I leave the room. I don't let him see me at all. Even if I have to duck down below the crib and crawl out of the room!
You may need to keep a journal of your daily events and the times and go back to square one.

Just some thoughts.....good luck.

MyBella · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2005, 18:19:27 pm »

This is what I find so confusing. Everyone's describing the WTS technique differently. What Travis' mom is describing is different than the WTS description on p 251 of Tracy's book, and the way TH describes it for naps is different than the way she does for dealing with habitual night wakings. For naps, TH talks about patting her gently to relax her through the jolt, and that it can take 15-20 minutes. And I've done that. Many times. We go in, before she awakens and keep a hand on her, but at 30 min she's wide awake and no amount of sh/pat is going to send her back to sleep.

The reason I initially posted this message was to see whether the method Travis' mom suggests, and the one TH suggests for habitual nightwakings
works for naps or not. To me it's different to go in, jostle, and leave - instead of staying with lo through the stir.

Travis' mom, how short were your lo's naps? And how long before did you go in and jostle her? How many naps/days did you do that for before it was successful? How old was lo at the time? And how much were you able to extend with this method? Thanks so much for your input!!!!

Beril

Travis' Mom · « **Reply #12 on:** September 12, 2005, 02:52:19 am »

Hi there,
I did this when my LO was around 5 months. His afternoon naps were only 45 minutes and I knew I needed to get them longer and the third nap (when he had 3 naps a day) shorter.
I set a timer for 35 minutes from when I knew he had just gone to sleep. I went in and jiggled him enough to semi wake him, but he didn't open his eyes. I quickly left the room and he then slept another 20 minutes.
The next day I did the same thing and he slept another 45 minutes. The next day, I didn't set the timer and wanted to see how long he would sleep and he slept 90 minutes! I was told any changes in routine will take at least 3 days.
He is now 7 months old and doing two naps a day, usually 1 1/2 hours each. If they are shorter, I let him lay in his crib as he is very content in there and will only get him if he starts to cry at all or if the 1 1/2 hours is up.
The sshh/pat doesn't work for my LO either.
Keep me posted.
Sheri

MyBella · « **Reply #13 on:** September 12, 2005, 14:27:40 pm »

Wow, that's incredible! I have to try this as I don't think pu/pd is working well to extend. Also, how long was your lo sleeping at night at the time, as well as now?

Thanks so much for your input!

Aarismom · « **Reply #14 on:** September 12, 2005, 16:02:51 pm »

Sheri,

So you're going in before the jolts start, or right after they start (which doesn't make much sense, but I'm not exactly sure how this works either and I can't get my hands on Tracy's second book)? I'm interested in trying this too...makes more sense then spending 30 mins in her room every nap trying to extend them past the jolts with a hand on her back (which works most of the time, but gets tiring). If you're going in before they start at 35 mins, how long until they normally start for your lo? My lo's start at 30 mins on the minute, so 35 mins would be too late.

Thanks for your input!

*HUGS*
Sonya =P

MyBella · « **Reply #15 on:** September 12, 2005, 23:53:25 pm »

I was wondering the same thing as well. DD stirs and awakes at exactly 30 min!

Travis' Mom · « **Reply #16 on:** September 13, 2005, 03:24:21 am »

My LO has been sleeping through the night since 8 weeks. At 5 months, he was sleeping 11 hours and now he sleeps 12 hours! I put him down at 6:30pm and he wakes between 6:30 and 6:45am. He is content until his 7am feed. I just love it!
If your LO is awakening at 30 minutes, set your timer for 20 or 25 minutes and go in then. I didn't want my LO awake at all when I went in. (His sleeps were 45 minutes). I wanted to jostle him to be semi awake so he would put himself back to sleep. On the first day, as I mentioned, I did have to use the PU/PD method as well and yes, it is tiring and hard work but it paid off for us.
Hope I answered all the questions. Let me know. You're doing great work.

MyBella · « **Reply #17 on:** September 13, 2005, 23:34:27 pm »

Sheri - I cannot believe your lo sleeps that much during the day after a 12 hr night! Mine sleeps 12 hrs at night, and I was thinking maybe that was why she doesn't sleep much during the day. I guess that theory can go out the window.

Anyway, dh tried the wts in this morning's nap - went in at 23 min (lo typically wakes up at 30 min sharp), jostled her, and lo and behold she took a 1 hr 26 min nap!!!! I was in a meeting at work, when my dh text messaged me this I just about fell off my chair. I don't know if our 1.5 weeks of pu/pd, binky elimination, and extending awake time to 3 hrs helped or not, but there you have it.

Her afternoon nap was 3 hours after she woke up from her morning nap, but that was only 20 min long and she woke up crying and 30 min of pu/pd failed to produce any more sleep. Oh, well Rome wasn't built in a day. I hope and pray that this long nap was not a fluke!

Travis' Mom · « **Reply #18 on:** September 14, 2005, 17:24:38 pm »

That is wonderful news!!! So happy for all of you! It won't be a fluke but just remember to stay consistent with what you are doing....the rest will be up to your LO. A 3 hour nap is amazing!!!! How old is your LO again? If older than 7 months, you may want to think about putting your LO on a one nap a day as you know she can do it. If younger, you may think about waking her after two hours to work on some consistency in your day. Just more suggestions to think about. Work towards what works for your family! Way to go and keep up the good work....it's hard most of the time but the rewards are so amazing!!!
Sheri

:!:

MyBella · « **Reply #19 on:** September 15, 2005, 00:11:58 am »

Quick correction, dd didn't actually sleep for 3 hours - she was awake for 3 hours before going down for her second nap and didn't end up taking a long 2nd nap, probably due to being overtired. (But the first nap was a whopping 1.5 hrs!)

Even though she's just about 7 months she still gets tired pretty easily. We're trying to put her down after 3hrs of awake time in the mornings, and 3 hrs between the two naps, but a lot of times she's tired at 2.5 hrs in the mornings and 2 hrs in the pm. So I'm thinking she's not ready to go to one nap yet. I'll be happy if we can consolidate to 2 naps at this point!

Emmy's Mum · « **Reply #20 on:** September 15, 2005, 09:19:38 am »

Hi guys, I've just been following this thread as my dd has exactly the same napping style described by Mybella. She's 3 months old and has catnapped since she was about 6 weeks old and it has always been a real problem. Pat/shush does nothing for her as well - in fact it seems to stimulate her into full wakefulness. Might try this method as well - wish me luck!

Travis' Mom · « **Reply #21 on:** September 15, 2005, 16:32:50 pm »

Good luck to you! It does take some patience but it does work! If she doesn't consistently wake up at the same time, you will need to use the pu/pd method as Tracy describes as this does work as well! Keep us posted.
Sheri :wink:

MyBella · « **Reply #22 on:** September 16, 2005, 00:17:30 am »

Hi Emmy's Mum, my dd started with this pattern around 4-5 weeks as well. Over time there have been weeks where it seemed like she was settling into a good nap schedule, but it has kept going back to the short naps. I wish I tried this when she was 3 months old. Please report back on your progress - it's great to hear how other moms are doing.

So we've now been doing this for every nap for the last three days, and yesterday she ended up napping 3 hrs in total! We can't seem to get it to work for every nap and it doesn't help extend each nap the same amount, but we've begun to have some longer naps. We're still going in at 20-25 min to jostle her, so I'm not sure how long we should keep doing that for before she starts extending on her own. Any thoughts Travis' mom?

Travis' Mom · « **Reply #23 on:** September 19, 2005, 01:55:09 am »

By now you've been going in for at least 5 days. I would try not going in now and jostling her awake and see what happens. Be prepared that she will wake up early but you have to try sometime. Leave her be if she does wake and hopefully she will put herself to sleep. Go by your gut feeling. If you think she can do it alone, try it....if not, keep going in until you feel she can do it. She should have her internal clock changed by now. So glad it worked for you and yes, we will both be working on the one nap soon!
Take care, :lol:

Emmy's Mum · « **Reply #24 on:** September 20, 2005, 01:39:46 am »

Hello ppl - I've tried the wts method today for the first time - I went in at 27mins (like Mybella's lo she wakes up at 30min sharp) and jostled her until she opened her eyes briefly then I watched from a position where she couldn't see me. At the 30 min mark, she stirred and let out a bit of a cry which I decided to leave to see if she would settle back into sleep herself and she did

! And she's currently still asleep and it has been 45 mins so far! (This is with the vacuum going right outside her bedroom door!)

Mybella: how are you progressing? Does your lo have longer naps now?

Quick question to you both: How did you get your lo's to sleep through the night? My bb is just over 3 months and she still wakes up twice nightly!

MyBella · « **Reply #25 on:** September 20, 2005, 02:22:25 am »

Emmy's mum,
So glad to hear your first experience with WTS was successful. Keep trying for every nap for the next few days. With us, it seems to be most successful on the first nap of the day, not so much on the others.

Regarding sleeping through the night, I'm convinced what worked with us was the cluster feed - dream feed combination. I implemented these when dd was 4 weeks old, and within 2 weeks she dropped one night feed, then within another 2 weeks she dropped the other one, started sleeping through the night at 8 weeks and 3 days. If you're not doing this already I'd highly recommend it!

Emmy's Mum · « **Reply #26 on:** September 20, 2005, 02:57:44 am »

What does cluster feed-dreamfeed combination involve?

MyBella · « **Reply #27 on:** September 20, 2005, 11:48:30 am »

Do you have TH's BW Solves All Your Problems? On p 25 the program is outlined really nicely. But basically eating times are 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 6pm, 8pm, and 11pm. 6pm and 8pm meals are "clustered" together to tank up lo because their tummies are too small to hold a lot of food and they don't have enought fat on their bodies to have fuel to get through the night. All these meals are fed awake, and then around 10pm-11pm you feed lo in her sleep (hence the name dream feed), because you want them to move away from being awake at this time. It may take a few tries to get lo take a df, but it's the most amazing thing.

Emmy's Mum · « **Reply #28 on:** September 21, 2005, 02:18:20 am »

No, I haven't got her book - I've been meaning to buy it but my local bookstore doesn't stock it and I haven't had a chance to visit another yet! I might try that schedule - I'm pretty much going by that routine except for the cluster and dreamfeeds at the end of the day. Is there a particular method for dreamfeeds?

Travis' Mom · « **Reply #29 on:** September 21, 2005, 17:54:41 pm »

My ds was the same as MyBella's LO. He has been sleeping through the night since 8 weeks as well but we dropped the dream feed around this time as well! One night he just fed really well and my Mom said he could go through the night without us waking him up for the DF. I was hesitant but tried it and he did!!!
The cluster feeds work wonders. If you keep doing this, your LO will drop the night time feeds sooner than later! Glad to hear the WTS worked for you as well. So nice to see you adjusting your routine so early to make it work for LO and your family!!!

MyBella · « **Reply #30 on:** September 21, 2005, 23:02:53 pm »

Emmy's mum,
I didn't use a particular method for df. I just kept her room really dark, quietly removed her from the crib and just tapped her lips with the nipple of the bottle, sometimes putting a few drops of milk on her mouth, taking care not to wake her. The first couple of times it took 5-7 minutes of trying to get her to take the bottle while sleeping, but she quickly learned it, and afterwards even though she was still sleeping she'd just automatically open her mouth for the bottle! I have to say, I was a little sad when the df went away. I really cherished spending that quiet time with her when she was peacefully sleeping. I could smell her baby smell and kiss her as much as I wanted without her squirming every which way. Every once in a while she'd wake either during the df, kind of verify it was mommy or daddy, and then close her eyes and immediately fall back asleep. Let me know how it goes.

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Author Topic: Does Wake-to-Sleep work for extending naps? (Read 14660 times)