Author Topic: What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????  (Read 2698 times)

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Offline deb

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« on: September 13, 2005, 23:39:04 pm »
Bless Natalie's little 4-month-old heart: she's a big baby, eats like a horse, but has spaced herself out to 4-hour feeds. She's usually easy to read, at least before about 4PM, and spends most of her time either looking around or crawling around.

BUT - and this is a huge BUT - EVERY DAY is different schedule-wise!!!! She wakes at different times (about half the time 5-5:30-ish but sometimes not till 7 or 7:30, but sometimes in the neighborhood of 6). Her first nap she can be ready for in one hour, two hours, or anywhere in between. It can last 45 minutes or 2.5 hours., with no relation to the amount of time spent awake beforehand most of the time. I may or may not be able to get her back to sleep if she DOES waken early.

After that, she's usually awake 90 minutes to 2 hours for most of the day, and I'd say that 2/3 -3/4 of her naps are 90 minutes, assuming she isn't hungry (she will NOT nurse before a nap time if it hasn't been 4 hours since the last feed, but WILL wake up after 30 minutes demanding my boobs' presence NOW already! :roll:)

Well, most of the time we tweak it to make it mostly work, and it mostly does most of the time. AND most of the time, the late afternoon is a total nightmare. She will only take more than 3 naps if the first two were 45 minutes long (and won't go down before she's been up 90 minutes regardless, stubborn little Taurus baby! :)). Today she had two good naps, and then the third nap was 30 minutes. What's the problem with having a catnap for the last nap? Well, she went down at 2PM and woke at 2:30 even though she'd nursed just BEFORE the nap. And she will NOT, no way, come hell or high water, no how, nap after about 3:30. (Exception: sometimes goes to bed w/o a feed because it hasn't been long enough and wakes hungry after 45 minutes and may not go back to sleep for 2 more hours :x)

For the past two months or so, bedtime has been an absolute NIGHTMARE. She's usually up from her final nap around 3-4PM, and I try to time her bath by 5:30 and bed by 6. She has been known to chug down 6+ ounces of EBM and demand more at bedtime, so there's always a big bottle, but half the time she'll turn it down and SCREAM bloody murder. Sometimes I'll try to nurse her in case she doesn't want the bottle, and she'll scream but then accept the bottle. And finally we had to re-introduce the pacifier so she had something to suck on that didn't make her scream - but half the time we try that, she spits THAT out too. But if we don't give her anything and try to sit with her to calm her she screams bloody murder - you see a theme here?

When she doesn't take the late nap, sometimes she wants a feed when she wakes at 3:30, but then she's not hungry at bedtime - but then wakes looking for food half an hour to an hour later. When she doesn't take the feed, she's starving around 5:30, so I rush her through her bath so she can have the bottle around 5:45, but by then she's screaming too hard to want it. Once I put her down, if she hasn't had the bottle, she'll fidget for a while till she wakes and then will nurse and take a full feed.

I really don't have a clue what I'm doing wrong, how to get her to take a nap after 4PM, how to finagle the feeds and the bedtime, why she'll happily suck down 6 ounces of milk one night and scream bloody murder when I offer her the same bottle with new milk the next night with no other changes in the afternoon sleeps and feeds.

In short, WTF?!?!?! :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Offline PaulaPR510

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Re: What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2005, 00:28:39 am »
Quote (selected)
she'd nursed just BEFORE the nap.

if she is nursing BEFORE the nap, then she isn't following EASY. This can really throw them off. Eat, activity, then sleep. Don't switch the order.
Also, try checking out in the sleep section some posts about 3 or 4 hour schedules. They helped me A LOT!
Good luck!

Offline deb

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Re: What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2005, 01:13:12 am »
Quote from: PaulaPR510
if she is nursing BEFORE the nap, then she isn't following EASY. This can really throw them off. Eat, activity, then sleep. Don't switch the order.

But if her last nap was 45 minutes long, by the time she's due for her next nap, she's also due for her next feed. And she won't eat after the short nap because it hasn't b een long enough. *sigh* That's part of the problem - no matter what I do, I can't seem to get one day to be like another. Not in FOUR MONTHS! Just because she's on a 4-hour eating schedule, she doesn't seem to want to get - or STAY - on a 4-hour SLEEP schedule. And I can't be doing pu/pd till she gets it: at almost 16 pounds she's paying off my chiropractor's car, plus Josie needs her mom the rest of the time too. :?

I dunno, Josie's Touchy, but at least I could get a schedule going with her at a relatively young age.

Offline marlowho

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2005, 02:03:48 am »
Deb, I read back through your post again and the best I can come up with is she sounds overtired.  I know you're saying that's the problem.   But when she's refusing feeds it sounds like her way of just asking to go to sleep.  Maybe a few days of kinda throwing the schedule out the window and just slowing down and watching her and watching cues?  Maybe there are some you're missing (can't imagine why- maybe b/c you have another child to look after! :roll: )  I'm totally with you on that part of it, though my 2nd has been my easy baby.   
Anyway... maybe go back to the very basics of just slowing down and watching- kinda like you did when she was first born.
And I know Tracy has mentioned extending naps in her books but I also understand your needs with Josie. 
Another idea... have you tried extending one of her awake times earlier in the day so that you can sort of guarantee a good third nap? 
3 naps is all I worry about now.  If she gets another in, great, if not, that's ok.     So... if Noel does one of those 30 min. things (even if she ate right before going down) then I try for just a couple minutes- like 5- to extend the nap.  If it doesn't work, I just hold her off as long as I can and then try again.
Hang in there, Deb!  You're such a great mom and these spirited little ones are trying to keep you on your toes- after all, motherhood is supposed to be the hardest job in the world, right?!
You've inspired many of us here-especially with all of your experience with these types of things.   
(HUGS)
-Marlo, mommy to
Madeline Marie (3/9/03)
Noel Julienne (5/25/05)
Eloise Anne (8/3/09)

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Offline Erin M

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2005, 02:19:01 am »
I don't have a whole lot of advice, all I can say is that I found the time right before the 4 month mark to be the craziest time I had (ok, so she's six months now, so I'm sure there will be crazier ones to follow).  Then, Katie found her thumb and could self-soothe and bit and finally took a nap that lasted longer than 45 minutes.

Is she dead set on the 4 hour feeding routine later in the day or will she take a feed at 2 hours or so?  Katie was always super fussy in the evening and feeding her midway between the last two feeds helped us to get through a bunch of days with less screaming.

Maybe watching the clock on her awake time like a hawk too.  That was how I got Katie back on something resembling a schedule after she got completely off around 4 months. 

Best of luck!
-Erin

Offline sara_derek

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2005, 03:38:16 am »
Hi Deb,

I'm so confused by your post even after reading it twice!  LOL, I just wanted to give you {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}} because you're really going through the ringer with this one!  I hope she mellows out soon and gives you some peace!  We Taureans sure can stick to our guns!

Sara
Canyon 12/27/02
Christian 7/4/05

Angel#1 12/23/01
Angel #2 5/23/06
Angel #3 11/27/06

Offline Katet

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2005, 04:24:32 am »
Deb (((Hugs)))

I know what you mean about big babies doing your back etc in....Liam is now 19lb, & he's 10 days younger than Natalie.

Not sure I have any advice, but hang in there girl... one day she will be a teenager & well, these days will be a thing of the past
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline Aarismom

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2005, 14:06:32 pm »
Don't you just LOVE the 4 month mark?!?

I completely, utterly, and totally sympathize. I'm going through it right now. For the last 3-4 weeks all I've gotten are a bunch of 30-45 min nap days, intermixed with some good ones, which seem few and far between. Mine gets up anywhere between 6 and 7 am. She also won't sleep well between 3 and 5 pm, but she will take a 30 min cat nap if she's tired enough. 

What's happening biologically is daytime sleep is developing. I swear, everything gets thrown off during this time, but it's mostly daytime sleep. It's completely normal to get a bunch of 30-45 min naps, although it's annoying as h#%%. You're supposed to push waking time up to 2 hours slowly... but at 4.5 months her first nap still falls anywhere between 1.5 and 2 hours, and her second 2 hours+. I usually get 30 min naps for the afternoon nap, I'm not sure what the window is at all.

Best advice I can give you:

1. Get her up at the same time every morning to set her biological clock. Do the best you can; she'll probably wake earlier a few days here and there, but make it the time she gets up most often.

2. Do what you can for nap times...until the daytime mess gets straightened out, try extending naptimes with a hand on her back and bum if pat/shh doesn't work. Go in BEFORE jolts start, for mine it's 30 mins on the min.

3. Keep as much to a schedule as you can. Don't be rigid, but be as consistant as possible. If naps happen around 8:30, try to put her down around that time, sometime within a half hour or so. If she takes one of those 45 min jobbers for the first or second...honestly, I'm still trying to figure that one out. My gut instinct tells me to keep her up until about a half hour before ner next normal nap to keep the bio rhythm consistant, but my head tells me no more than 2-2.5 hours, depending on when she gets tired enough. You'll have to be the judge of that one.

4. Try and keep the same bedtime. Mine goes down between 5:30 and 6 too, but it doesn't always happen that way.

5. Keep your chin up. This is bound to pass soon (sooner rather than later, I hope). I'm trying to stay optimistic, but I'm sort of pessimistic by nature.

Good luck! We'll get through this!

*HUGS*
Sonya =P


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Offline deb

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2005, 14:24:48 pm »
Thanks - at least I'm not alone.

I wish - OH, how I WISH - I could get her up at the same time every day. Tonight I'm going to start wake-to-sleep to see if I can get her to sleep at least till 6 or 6:30; 5:15-5:30 is too early for me, and after the clocks change it'll be 4:30, and I don't wanna go there. :(

Oh, and the other thing I didn't mention: she has to get plunked in the car seat every day at 8:45 and 11:45 so we can Josie to school and pick her up again. Convenient, huh? Usually she's either awake the whole time or asleep the whole tim, or ready for a nap about 15 minutes before we're due to leave, in which case I've been known to take Josie to school early or pick her up before her recess even starts, poor girl. :?

Gotta run, darned if she's not getting restles at half an hour...... :(

Offline Katet

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2005, 23:42:07 pm »
Deb, you may have probably tried this, but I thought I'd post anyway, just in case.

About a month ago Liam started acting like he wanted to start the day around 6am... no way I said... we had just got Aiden sleeping to close to 7am & that was early enough for me, now I'm not working.
So for over a week (wasn't fun as it was the coldest week of winter) I spent the time re-settling him until 7.30am every morning... the idea being, it was still sleep time & so I wasn't getting him out of bed before the "first feed of the day. On day 8 it worked... I fed at about 5.30am & he slept through to almost 8am... I still have some days, like today, where he is awake & ready for the day at 6.30, but I just keep trying to re- settle & at least he is in the quiet & his first nap can happen roughly the same time each day (+/- 1/2 hour)


PS I know what it is like interupting the first sleep, for the elder siblings activities - that is why I decided it was my "freebie" sleep & focus on a good middle of the day sleep. (12-2.30/3pm) & a non cat nap in the evening... not exactly BW, but works for this family, as it matches Aidens, nap time
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline Laura's Mum

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2005, 10:39:40 am »
Deb,

Just had a quick look at Cate's journal and she didn't settle into any sort of a regular pattern until 6 months on the dot.  Then she started slotting into 2 decent naps per day and we were away.

SO no advice, other than to hang in there!
Janelle Laura (26 March 2001) and Cate (11 December 2003)

Offline branwen

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2005, 14:58:37 pm »
Hi Deb-

Just also wanted to lend my support to you- from reading the thread I would definitely say you have a grumpy one.  My dd wasn't on any kind of EASY until 4 months and I got her on one with PU/PD.  4 months is such a hellish time!  :evil:

I know you said you don't want to do PU/PD but I have just a few other ideas.

First- feeding before sleep is OK, as long as the feed does not put her to sleep or enable the sleep.

Second- how I also got my dd on EASY at 4 months was pretty much enforcing feed times- no matter what- so if she didn't take much at the time I offered the boob she was out of luck until the next time.  It was so hard to do as before I demand fed her but it so worked and eventually it clicked and she was like- okay I better eat now!  This got us on 3 hrs- but you go 4 so that is already great!

Third- with a grumpy one you will probably not be able to make her completely happy but the EASY will help you manage her moods better and eventually she'll thank you for it!  So in order to get her on EASY you're going to have to do some scheduling v. routine for just a bit.  Once she gets on a pattern more then you can flex her.

Can you post your ideal day and then an actual day.  Maybe we can play around with getting a plan for times for you!  :)  Hang in there!
Branwen
Mama to Eirwen 1/22/05


Offline deb

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What the $#%& is the deal with BEDTIME????
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2005, 14:59:04 pm »
Thanks, that DOES give me some hope!

I was going to do wake to sleep but Nat woke at 3:30-ish for a feed (turned out to be a snack) and it didn't seem to make sense to nudge her at 4:30. She did wake again at 5:30 but nursed herself back to sleep, and even when she woke at 6:15 I was able to get her back down AGAIN!!!! She woke for the day around 7:15, and then even though I expected her to take a nap while I took Josie to school so we could do our Music Together class, she decided to stay awake till the end of class, nearly 10:30, and she's still in the car seat in her room sleeping and will hopefully stay that way (knock wood) till my morning caffeine gets out of my system for her lunch.

I could EASILY be happy with a 7:15 wakeup - she'd be up till I took Josie to school, she'd come home and nap and I'd have most of the morning to get chores done and/or hang out here! LOL

I just realized yesterday that in 2 more months we'll be in solids-land! :shock: YOWZA!!!