Author Topic: Feel like I have to let my baby snack  (Read 2429 times)

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Offline charleyuk

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Feel like I have to let my baby snack
« on: September 16, 2005, 14:08:31 pm »
I've tried and tried to encourage a 3 hour routine with my 12wk ds, but, while we were getting there with the daytime naps, he wouldn't eat much upon waking, or for the duration of his activity. I tried extending to 4 or sometimes 5 hours, but he still wouldn't each much at a feed. He is bottle fed.

He began dropping below his curves, going from 9th centile, to almost 5th.  I discovered a couple of days ago that he will eat quite well if I feed him as he wakes at the 45 min mark (then it's actually easier to get him back to sleep for the rest of his nap), then when he wakes before his activity, then when I put him back down for a nap.  It would appear he prefers to eat while he's sleepy, whilst in his carrycot (ie not being held). He does have mild reflux and is on Gaviscon in each feed, so I'm wondering if small feeds are easier on his tum.  I don't like feeding him whilst he's flat, but slightly inclined in his cot, but just seems too distracted if I hold him.

Since midnight, I have fed him 10 times, between 35ml and 85ml at a time. He is up to 580ml right now (2.40pm) which is great for him, as until I was feeding him like this, this is all he'd have in 24hours!

He goes to bed at 7pm, then feeds when I go to bed (he's in the same room at the moment) about 10.30pm, then at about 1am or 2am, then 3am or 4am, then 6.30am.  In between these times he often wakes me up snuffling about too.  He has always been like this on a night though, that is why I bought Tracy's book - I was and still am absolutely exhausted

My thinking is, is that if I can get him to take quite a lot in the day (however I can), then I might be able to settle him through the first night feed (the one after the 10.30pm one) it's generally only a small (35m;-40ml) feed anyway.

Am I setting myself up for further problems??  Or is it ok to feed like this during the day? The way I feel at the moment, I don't care how I feed him in the day as long as it helps him sleep longer in the night.

Sorry if this isn't very coherent - I'm sooo tired, I'm probably not making much sense  :shock:

Offline jayne

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Feel like I have to let my baby snack
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2005, 15:32:28 pm »
at this stage since he is loosing weight and keeping you up all night i would feed him during the day whenever you can.. just try to avoid feeding to sleep...

once he has started putting on more weight i would then try to schedule
e.a.s.---but if you dont start the habbit of feeding to sleep you will be able to schedule him better...

do you dreamfeed??? or clusterfeed before bed???
jayne

dd#1  05-14-2001
dd#2  08-06-2004

Offline charleyuk

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Feel like I have to let my baby snack
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2005, 16:28:12 pm »
Hi Jayne,

Thanks for your reply, I guess the feed I do when I go to bed could be called a dreamfeed as he only rouses because of me rustling around.  I suppose you might say I'm clusterfeeding him all day as I am having to feed him at any opportunity.

I guess you would say feeding him at the 45 min mark during his nap is a bad habit? Also the feeding him when I put him down for a nap? I thought that this might be the case, seeing as it is the opposite of Tracy's whole principals! The problem is, this seems to be the only way I have of increasing his intake.  If I stopped - to do as I was doing - he'd lose weight again.

I'm worried that I'm making a rod for myself.

Offline jayne

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« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2005, 22:23:54 pm »
what is your schedule for the day???

maybe i can help you get in a couple more feeds without you feeding to sleep...

how much does he take at each feed??

is there any medical reason he isnt gaining weight??
jayne

dd#1  05-14-2001
dd#2  08-06-2004

Offline charleyuk

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Feel like I have to let my baby snack
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2005, 20:33:17 pm »
Hi Jayne

If we stay in all day, his naps and activity are fairly predictable;

6 - 6.30, comes to bed for cuddle, goes back to sleep and intermittently snacks/snoozes until 8.30 - 9am.  Sometimes I can get two bottles (130ml each) into him at this point.

8.30 - 9am activity

10-10.30 nap until 11.30-12.00, then activity for approx 1 and a quarter to 1 and a half hours.

13.00 or 14.00 nap, he'll wake up (as usual) at the 30-45 min mark, then will either go back to sleep, or wakes fully.  Then activity for about an hour and a half and another nap.  Last nap (never longer than 45 mins)  about 17.30 or 18.00, However, bath is always at

18.30, bed at 19.00  If he's had less than say, 600ml through the day, he'll wake after 30 mins to an hour for more food.  Then, roughly

22.30 or 23.00 eats

01.00 or 0200 eats

03.00 or 04.00 eats

05.00 ish eats

I'm now feeding him when I put him down for a nap, when he wakes at the 30-45 min mark and when he wakes before his activity. Today has been a real struggle to get anything into him because I took him out shopping/dog walking.  When he's out and about he's even less interested in food. So far (it's 21.22), he's only had 480ml. 

We (the doc and I) think he's got reflux which doesn't help things. He's taking Gaviscon in every feed for it. I'm using Dr Brown's bottles with a nuber 2 teat.  He doesn't like to be held whilst eating.  He had a traumatic birth and had to be resuscitated. We were in SCBU for a while.

I have had him on the 3 hour EASY - naps and activity are not really a problem, but he just won't do the "eat" - I was feeding him only when he wakes (before his activity) but he was losing weight.  - I get more into him letting him snack when he's sleepy.

Offline jayne

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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2005, 12:14:00 pm »
i dont have time right now for an adaquate response.. but i will try to get back later today or first thing tomorrow--
just didnt want to leave you hanging---
jayne

dd#1  05-14-2001
dd#2  08-06-2004

Offline charleyuk

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Feel like I have to let my baby snack
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2005, 18:04:26 pm »
Hi Jayne,

Thanks, whenever you're ready  :)

I guess I should've posted this in the "eat" section shouldn't I? :roll:

Looks like the "snacking" thing isn't working either now, he's done a bit better than yesterday when he only ate 520ml in 24hours to midnight, but he's still only had 540 ml so far today (it's 19.00).  He weighed 11lb 8oz at his last weigh-in on thursday.

Offline jayne

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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2005, 12:10:58 pm »
okay -- he eats in the morning two bottles and then i am a little confused as to when he is eating through out the day..

does he take 130 ml every bottle?? (i looked it up around 6 oz right??)

wakes at 6 bottle
wakes fully for the day around 8or 9  bottle

then at 12 bottle
3:00 (15:00)bottle
6:00 (18:00)bottle
then i would do the cluster feeding 8:00 (20:00) bottle
then a 10:00 (22:00) bottle if he is asleep that would be your dreamfeed-

if he drinks all of these then he should have way more than he needs to make it thru the night--if he has reflux he would be spitting up half of it... i would go on the ruflux board and see about getting some tips on how to feed him.. i know that you need to hold them upright after their feeds so that they digest the food... but i know the women over there have great advice so i would peek on there and they can help you better than i could with that

when he wakes in the night is he needing to eat or does he have a belly ache?? i would try to see if you can get him to eat good thru the day

try to stretch the night time feedings to at least 3hours--do you have his bed elevated?? try putting a pillow under the mattress to elevate his bed and see if that helps--

just a bunch of thoughts --let me know if any of these helped or if you need me to clarify anything
jayne

dd#1  05-14-2001
dd#2  08-06-2004

Offline charleyuk

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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2005, 17:05:57 pm »
Hi Jayne

I'm really sorry for my incoherence. I'm frazzled. Unfortunately he takes only no more than 40ml per feed - occasionally as much as 85ml.  I would be jumping round the streets in joy if he had 130ml in a feed! Today it's been 20 - 25ml per feed.  So far he's only had 265ml since midnight. This is apart from on a morning when i bring him into bed with me when he was having 2 bottles (130ml each), but it's been dwindling, and this morning he only had 100ml.

I'm afraid I can't be more precise with when he eats because it really is all over the place.

As for the reflux, he's in an elevated cot, and I hold him upright practically all day.  I can sometimes get him to get through the 2.30am/3am waking if I hold him and use a pacifier, but he wouldn't settle last night at that time, so I fed him, but still he only took 35ml.  I doubt if he will settle tonight either.  I feel I have to feed him during his sleep in order to get anything into him.  He just seems to prefer eating when he's sleepy.

I've made an appointment with the doctor tomorrow.  I've been before (when he said ds had reflux), but I'm not sure what they'll say this time.

Offline jayne

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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2005, 18:23:23 pm »
i am sorry i misunderstood.. so  he is roughly only getting an ounce to an ounce and a half  in per feeding---so in order to get in the right amount of food he would have to eat 20 to 30 times a day

hmmm somehow you have to start to work at getting him to eat a bit more at each feed...

is it possible to hold him off for 2 to 21/2 hours between feeds to maybe get in 3 ounces--or 60 or so ml

here is my conversion chart.. is it accurate???

 [8 fluid ounces --- 237 ml
 6 fluid ounces---  177 ml
 5 1/3 fluid ounces---  158 ml
 4 fluid ounces--- 118 ml
 2 2/3 fluid ounces---  79 ml
 2 fluid ounces  ---59 ml
 1 fluid ounce---- 30 ml
 1/2 fluid ounce --- 15 ml
1/8 fluid ounce--- 5 ml
[/color]

well let me know what the doctor says.. he should be able to take a bit more with each feeding... but if he cant then that is why you are up all night... what medications are you using for him??

make sure you stress to your doctor that he cant do more than an 20-25 ml or so a feeding-- does he spit up what he eats??

dont let it up.. get the right meds for him so he can eat

have you gone to the reflux forum???  ask them what kind of meds they recommend so you can go into the doctors office with a lot of info -- dont leave until you get the answers you need...

good luck and keep me posted
jayne

dd#1  05-14-2001
dd#2  08-06-2004

Offline charleyuk

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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2005, 18:40:22 pm »
Hi Jayne, thanks again for posting

Yep - that conversion chart seems about right. 

We were "on" the 3 hour EASY for a few weeks, all was going well, apart from the eating - he just started eating less and less, until during the day he was eating nothing.  Sometimes even after 5 hours! That's when he really started dropping off his weight curve, and that's when I discovered that he would eat during his naps. This seemed to work for a few days. Now it's all gone completely wrong and he'll hardly eat even during his naps.

He spits up a tiny bit - not loads, thank goodness!  I put Gaviscon in each feed.

I've been on the reflux forum, but I can't get hold of any of the specialist formulas that have been recommended there. I'll really try to get the doctor to prescribe a lactose free formula, and hope that'll work....

Thanks again, I'll let you know how we get on.

Offline jayne

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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2005, 18:25:29 pm »
how did it go at the doctors today???
jayne

dd#1  05-14-2001
dd#2  08-06-2004