Author Topic: ?thrush  (Read 1757 times)

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Offline joannec

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?thrush
« on: September 17, 2005, 09:31:59 am »
How do you know if you have thrush. There are no signs in my 7 week old babe's mouth but my nipples feel itchy at times and I have a sharp pain in both nipples during the latch on only.
Noah's Mum
Jo
DS - Noah born 29/7/05

Offline woopster

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?thrush
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2005, 10:10:06 am »
Is this your 1st baby?  It may just be a problem with the latch.

I experienced a deep sharp shooting pain in my breasts, not only when latching on, but throughout the day. Do you get this?

Does babies tongue look like it has a coating of milk on it? Does s/he have a shiny bum?!?
Harry: 29 July 2003
Lydia: 28 June 2005
Sam:  28 June 2005
David: 28 June 2005 - 12 August 2005
Daniel: 19 July 2007
That's all folks!
(Well, maybe another girl if I can convince DH!)

Offline Erin (redstarfalling)

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?thrush
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2005, 15:26:28 pm »
Nipple pain caused by Candida albicans

            The pain caused by a Candidal infection is generally different from the pain caused by poor positioning and/or ineffective suckling.   The pain caused by a Candidal infection:

1. Is often burning in nature, rather than the sharp, stabbing or pinching pain associated with other causes.   Burning pain may be due to other causes, however, and pain due to a Candidal infection does not necessarily burn.

2. Frequently lasts throughout the feeding, and occasionally continues after the feeding has ended.   This is in contrast to the pain due to other causes that usually hurts most when the baby latches on, and gradually improves as the baby sucks.

3. May radiate into the mother's armpit or into her back.

4. May cause no change in appearance of the mother's nipples or areolas, though there may be redness, or some scaling, or the skin of the areola may be smooth and shiny and the nipple may crack.

5. Not uncommonly will begin after a period of pain free nursing.   This characteristic alone is reason enough to try treatment for Candida.   However, milk blisters on the nipple also may cause nipple pain after a period of pain free nursing as may eczema or other skin condition.

6. May be associated with recent use of antibiotics by the baby or mother, but not necessarily.

7. May be quite severe, may or may not be itchy.

8. may occur in one breast or nipple only.

9. May occur only in the breast.   This pain is often described as "shooting", or "burning" in nature, and is often worse after the feeding is over.   It is often said to be worse at night.   At the same time, the breast appears or feels normal.   This is not mastitis and there is no reason to treat with antibiotics.   On the contrary, antibiotics may make the problem worse.   

Please Note:

a) The baby does not have to have thrush in his mouth.

b) A Candidal infection of the nipple may be combined with other causes of soreness.
Erin
Mother to Megan and Samantha


Offline joannec

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?thrush
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2005, 08:16:11 am »
I have started to develop a burning itch in both nipples and have been struggling for a week with horrendous upper back/armpit pain on one side only. Also, the bub seems to be more unsettled. What can I do to treat it while bf? Yes, I'm a 1st time Mum and so will probably ask lots of amatuer questions now that I've discovered this website!
Thanks
Jo
Jo
DS - Noah born 29/7/05

Offline Erin (redstarfalling)

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?thrush
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2005, 13:17:58 pm »
There are no amateur questions...only amateur answers!  :wink:

Here's the treatment from Jack Newman's website (you'll see we quote him a lot!):
Using Gentian Violet
           It is messy, and will stain clothing (actually, it will usually wash out), but not skin.   The baby's lips will turn purple, but the purple will disappear after a few days.   Gentian violet is available without prescription but is not available at all pharmacies.   Call around before going out to get it.   

1) About 10 ml (two teaspoons) of gentian violet is more than enough for an entire treatment.

2) Many mothers prefer doing the treatment just before bed so that they can keep their nipples exposed and not worry about staining their clothing.   The baby should be undressed to his diaper, and the mother should be uncovered from the waist up.   Gentian violet is messy.

3) Dip a clean ear swab (Q-tip) into the gentian violet.

4) Put the purple end of the ear swab into the baby's mouth and let him suck on the swab for a few seconds.   The gentian violet usually spreads around the mouth quickly.   If it does not, paint the inside of the mouth to cover as much of the inside of the cheeks and tongue as possible.

5) Put the baby to the breast.   In this way, both the baby's mouth and your nipple are treated.   

6) If, at the end of the feeding, you have a baby with a purple mouth, and two purple nipples, there is nothing more to do.   If only one nipple is purple, paint the other one with the ear swab and the gentian violet.   In this way, the treatment is finished in one go.

7) Repeat the treatment each day for three or four days, up to a week

8) There is often some relief within hours of the first treatment, and the pain is usually gone or virtually gone by the third day.   If it is not, it is unlikely that Candida was the problem, though it seems Candida albicans is starting to show some resistance to gentian violet, as it already has to other antifungal agents.   Of course, there may be more than one cause of nipple pain, but after three days the contribution to your pain caused by Candida albicans should be gone. However, if your pain is virtually gone after three or four days, but not completely, you can use gentian violet a few more days if necessary.

9) All artificial nipples that the baby uses should be boiled daily during the treatment, or well covered with gentian violet.   Consider stopping artificial nipples.

10) There is no need to treat just because the baby has thrush in his mouth.   The reason to treat is the mother's and/or the baby's discomfort.   Babies, however, do not commonly seem to be bothered by thrush.

11) Uncommonly, babies who are treated with gentian violet develop sores in the mouth that may cause them to reject the breast.   If this occurs, or if the baby is irritable while nursing, stop the gentian violet immediately, and contact the clinic.   The sores clear up within 24 hours and the baby returns to feeding.

            If the infection recurs, treatment can be repeated as above.   But if the infection recurs a third time, a source of reinfection should be sought out.   The source may be the mother who may be a carrier for the yeast (but may have no sign of infection elsewhere), or from artificial nipples the baby puts in his mouth.
Erin
Mother to Megan and Samantha


Offline joannec

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?thrush
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2005, 04:10:02 am »
Thank you Erin, although I'm a nurse, I make a point of remembering I'm very new to this mothering caper and will always ask for advice - still I can't believe I didn't think of the good old Gentian Violet! Will give it a go tomorrow for sure and let you know. Also, Noah has had a small but hardened area on both bot cheeks very near his anus which is red spots - does not look like staph. I've been intuitively putting Canestan antifungal cream on for a week now, smaller but far from clear. Do you think it is fungal and related? Once again, a million thanks.
Jo, mother to Noah born 29/7/05 5lb14oz.
Jo
DS - Noah born 29/7/05

Offline Erin (redstarfalling)

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?thrush
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2005, 23:43:36 pm »
Ah, a mother's intuition!  :D If the antifungal is working, then I wouldn't be surprised.  See how he does once you start the GV - if it is thrush related, his bum should clear up too!
Erin
Mother to Megan and Samantha


Offline joannec

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?thrush
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2005, 08:33:00 am »
Hi Erin,
I couldn't get GV anywhere - but managed to find Grapefruit seed extract per recommendations from Dr Newmans website. I also put an oral thrush preparation from the pahrmacist on my nipples and hey presto! it worked. Noah's bum is not clearing up with the Canesten. It's no worse but damn stubborn. Could it still be candida related I wonder? Thanks agian for your excellent and reassuring advice.
Jo
Jo
DS - Noah born 29/7/05

Offline joannec

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?thrush
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2005, 08:42:00 am »
Hi Erin,
I couldn't get GV anywhere - but managed to find Grapefruit seed extract per recommendations from Dr Newmans website. I also put an oral thrush preparation from the pahrmacist on my nipples and hey presto! it worked. Noah's bum is not clearing up with the Canesten. It's no worse but damn stubborn. Could it still be candida related I wonder? Thanks agian for your excellent and reassuring advice.
Jo
Jo
DS - Noah born 29/7/05

Offline Erin (redstarfalling)

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?thrush
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2005, 17:44:12 pm »
I'm glad you've had some success, but poor Noah's bum! I would think it would be related to the yeast. I'm not sure what else to suggest for it though...maybe it'll just take a bit longer to clear up?
Erin
Mother to Megan and Samantha