Nights better, but naps tough & can't leave room till as

[dbr]

I started Tracy's PD technique about two weeks ago with my one year old spirited son.  Prior to this, he almost always needed assistance to get to sleep.  I have seen a huge difference in his ability to go to sleep at night.  Also, his night wakings have decreased from 4 or 5 to 1 - 3. 

I am still "trouble shooting" the night wakings, and I am hoping I have found and can now eliminate the cause (plumbing and gutter drainage noise, which will hopefully be hidden by the "white noise machine" I put in his room today).

My concerns are this:

1) Naps are still quite difficult.  They had improved, but have now regressed some.  After two weeks, I still have to PD anywhere from 20 - 40 times, and it takes from 20 minutes to an hour before he falls asleep.  I put blackout liners behind the curtains and bring him to his room as soon as I see tired signs.  (Usually around 9:00 - 9:30 a.m. and 1:30 - 2:30 p.m.)  I read on another sleep book (Jodi Mindell's Sleeping Through the Night) that it can take a couple weeks after you get the bedtime thing knocked out before the naps follow.  Any other experience / suggestions on this?

2) I have progressed from having to have a hand on his back while he drifts off to being able to be a step or two away from the crib.  If I try to go farther, however, he jumps up and cries.   We did try Ferber about five or six weeks ago for one night and one day (two naps), and it backfired with my son.  He became anxious when we put him in his crib, and it took about 2 1/2 days before he fully warmed back up to me.  (One person I consulted for sleep assistance told me this was all in my imagination, but I heartily disagree.  Additionally, his nanny that has lived with us since his birth even commented to me that she was surprised how mad he was at me.)  Therefore, I think I need to be particularly careful with how I approach the next step.  Any advice on when and how to modify this program so I can leave the room while he is still awake? 

One important note is that he got an ear infection right after we started the PD program, and I am now wondering if he is getting his molars.  I attribute some of the slowed progress to this, but not all, since the nighttime sleeping has improved significantly.

Grateful for any advice or encouragement,
Briana

[Jaime]

hi there,

i don't have too much advice for you, but i wanted to congratulate you on your progress and encourage you to keep going! 

it is normal for it to take naps longer to get sorted out.  i'm not exactly sure why, but going to sleep at night is an entirely different brain process.  regression is also normal (and frustrating!)  just when you think they're getting, they start to slide back.  this is where being consistent will help.  keep on doing what you're doing, and you will eventually start to see improvement again.

you are correct in that the ferberizing breaks trust, and it will take a bit longer to build it back up.  all i can advise you is to take it slowly.  gradually (over many days) increase your distance from the crib until you are out of the room.  as he begins to trust again, he will be okay with your being away from his side.

HTH a little.

[dbr]

Thanks for the encouraging words. 

I am thinking that I need to get him going down for naps better (so they are about the same as putting him down at night) before I try to back away from the crib more.  What do you think?

Also, I did wake to sleep for one nap yesterday and two naps today, and I could not believe how much longer he slept!!!   I'll definitely keep that up a few more days!

[mango_baby]

Reading your posting I felt as though I had written it. I have exactly the same issues, with am  vs  pm as well as my spirited one needing me right beside him.
A couple questions if you don't mind.
With wake to sleep, you basically just go in at the time they usually wake up and gently rouse them? My son tends to sit straightup ready to go when he wakes up. I am worried that doing this may actually wake him. What are the chances of this happening?
Just when things seem to be going well....ie-settling in 20 min, with me sitting in the rocker once he is settled and him falling asleep without neeeding me in sight.....then we seem to regress. This was mentioned in the other post. Do these regression cycles just keep happening? It sems for one week everythings great.then we regress again, and then i post all kinds of help wanted posts. Do these regressions ever stop? Can I rely on or dream of a day when it will just consistently be the same? I don't know why he can self sooth and settle quickly one week, then it seems as though he never learned any of these skills, What is going on?

Any thoughts i'd love to hear.

thank you,
melissa

[Jaime]

Briana - that sounds awesome!  i think you're fantastically successful - keep it up! 

Melissa - regarding wake-to-sleep... to do it you just want to lay a hand on your lo until they stir, and then get out of there.  at nighttime, you would aim to do it about an hour before the habitual waking time, when they would normally be in deep sleep.  if you're trying to cure short (i.e. 45 minute) naps, you want to aim to be in there when he's been sleeping about 30 minutes.  there are lots of helpful posts in the nap forum for more specifics with that.

HTH

[dbr]

Melissa,

I did just what Jaime said, except I didn't realize I needed to leave immediately, so I'll adjust that part. I was going to try it this morning at 4:00 a.m. to stop the 5:00 a.m. waking, but the bugger woke up at 3:50!

And I completely agree about the 30 minute timing, b/c I lost track of time this afternoon, and sure enough, 40 minutes after he went down, he woke up screaming to get out and go.

I have exactly the same problem you do with thinking he's got a certain schedule he likes or whatever, and then a week later, he decides that 2:00 is really not a good time to nap, and he is tired at 1:00.  Or vice versa.  Or this lullaby mellows him and the next week, he hates it. 

I remember reading in one of Tracy's books that the spirited ones do like to change just when you think you've got it down.  I don't know if the other ones do.

I just keep reminding myself . . . this "spirited" personality will be an asset to him one day, as long as I help him funnel his energies properly.

At least we know we are not alone!

[mango_baby]

Briana,

Nice to hear from you!! I spent most of my childhood years on Escondido!!, I just saw your from San Diego. I love it there!
I say that exact thing to myself and others about my son's personality. It will be a gift when he is older nd he will go far in life since he knows exactly what he wants , when he wants it and how.
As I was reading your post I realized that when I flow with things and stop trying to do it the was I think it should be, life seems a lot smoother. I just keep trying to fit in the tim es lots he sets up one week, then changes the next. Well I guess you could say our little one's keep s on our toes.
I will try wake to sleep twommorow for the naps.
Funny thing though, my guy was up at 3:30 last night(well this morning) and he usually is up at 5. So if I want to prevent his 5 am waking, I go in at 4:30 and stir him a bit??

just to clarify, I stir him.if he moves a tiny bit any maybe opens his eyes for a second and then closes them back to sleep. is that enough? even if his body doesn't change position?
 thanks for your help

we'll talk again soon. I have to go. i'ts late and i'm tired (last night),

take care, \

melissa

[dbr]

Melissa,
From what I understand, here is how you do the wake to sleep (and it's what I've been following and has been successful for the last couple days):

To stop habitual night wakings, go in one hour before they usually wake, and stroke or pat his back or head until he stirs.  As soon as he stirs, stop.  Leave the room.  You don't actually wake them up, you just disturb their sleep slightly.  Somehow this breaks the cycle.  Last night, we did this at 11:00 (to stop the 12:00 waking) and 4:00 (to stop the 5:00 waking).  He did not wake up at 12:00 OR 5:00.  He did wake at 3:00, though.   :roll:

To lengthen naps the 40-minute naps, go in about 30 minutes after he falls asleep.  Stroke or pat his head until stirs.  As soon as he stirs, stop and leave the room.  The other day we did this, and he napped 2 1/4 hours and 1 1/4 hours.  I did it today, and he napped one hour.  So, today was not a HUGE difference, but still better than 40 or 45 minutes.  He seems to have had enough sleep with the one hour nap. 

Good luck.  I am going to go put him down for his afternoon nap.  I hope this goes better than this morning (took an hour b/c he was way over-tired).

How are you enjoying Vancouver?

[mango_baby]

Briana,

I love vancouver, it is a very beautiful city. But with growing up in that warm southern sun, it seems to be in my blood. I love summertime, now the weather is cooling off though, first day of fall has arrived, and i will sit and wait for summertime again...........

Anyway,  it sounds like wake to sleep was somewhat successful for you. Now what about 3am?
I tried it for his afternoon nap. I went in 30 mins after he fell asleep and he stirred a bit. he slept 1-1/2 hours, which is usual, but what I am trying to do is extend that to 2-3 hours since it is his only nap of the day. 1 -1/2 hours is not enough for all day. As a consequence, at 6 when he went to bed he was overtired (I knew I should have put him sooner) .
Although he was drowsy from the rocking chais, but, as always, he woke when i layed him down. I was his audience while he was playing, so I thought forget this.....I said sleepytime, time to go to sleep, i love you and I left the room. I listened outside the door and I heard him stand up. When he started to cry I went in , lay him down, said the same thing and left. after 3 times he didn't get up, he just played and then there was silence.
maybe miracles do happen?? we'll see twommorow. Although now that i've started I can't go back. that's the good thing. Keeps me from procrastinating.

I'll let you know what happens.
I hope this night for you is even better than the last
keep me posted,

melissa

[dbr]

Melissa,

Thanks for the advice.  I'm sure you saw in the other post two other moms said basically the same thing.  I think I am nervous to leave him alone in the room "cold turkey" (without graduation closer and closer to the door) b/c of how traumatized he was with the Ferber experience.  But I think I'll have to give it a try.  In fact, today he was playing in his room, and I needed to go make breakfast downstairs, but he didn't want to come.  So I told him good bye and left, thinking he would follow.  He didn't.  I finally had to go back in and get him.  So he IS comfortable alone, he just wants it on his terms.

My mom is in town now from Maine for his 1st birthday party, and this weekend will be very busy with other relatives, etc., so I think I should not change anything till things calm down (timing can be such a bugger).

I'll bet you do miss the San Diego weather sometimes.  We went to Quebec and Montreal for the ice festival last year, and I have never been so cold in my life. 

Will you keep me posted how this weekend goes for you?

Oh, and about the WTS.  It was hugely helpful at first, but last night was horrible.  I don't know what his deal was.  We did WTS at 11, and he still woke up at 11:30.  I did not do it before the 3:00 waking b/c I was not sure how many times in one night we should do this -- do we conquer one habitual waking at a time??  I don't know.  So, he woke at 3:30.  Then, I did WTS at 4:00.  He woke up at 5:30, and would not go back to sleep.   :roll:

I am going to continue, though.  They say consistency is key, so I am banking on that.

Good luck, and we'll be in touch.

[mango_baby]

Briana,

Hello,
I hope your birthday celebration was a fun one
I think you mentioned in some post about your nanny going in the room. Were things any different? Is he better with the nanny? or does it makes no difference?
Things on my end are the same, except that I have stopped trying to transition from 2-1 nap and he sleeps longer and better. So maybe he wasn't ready!? Since then he also goes to sleep a lot faster. mo more 45 min-1 hour. Don't know what that is all about though.
Everything eles is the same though. I think I for the time being have resorted to the fact that for whatever reason he needs me in this way right now. Down the road I know I will look at this and it will be no big deal.
My attenpts to leave the room only seemed to extend his playing time. Unlike other children, he doesn't seem to lay down eventually when he is tired. He just plays and plays....doesn't even really cry anymore. So my attemps of going back in and laying him dowm don't work...he stands right back up and will play. He does need the sleep though because since I put him back on a 930 and 130 nap he's way better.

let me know how your doing, I 've wondering.

Melissa

[dbr]

HI Melissa,

I think I mentioned in one of my past posts that I was going to stop putting him down so he would not think I was his audience. That helped quite a bit.

I also moved from near his bed to the rocking chair, which is a few feet away. 

In the last few days, we moved next to the door.  That is where we wait now. 

I was planning to start leaving the room this weekend as suggested in so many posts by moms who have had success with this, and I wanted to see how it had gone for you. 

I am bummed for both of us that it didn't work!!

I think I am still going to give it a try, just in case I am able to have success.  My concern with Zach is not that he'll continue to play, but that he'll get really distressed we have left him alone.

If that is not successful, then I'll probably do the same thing you are doing.  At least he is now taking two solid naps a day (anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half) and waking up on average once a night as opposed to 4 or 5 times.  Also, he is generally much better rested and consequently much happier during the day than he had been, so that's a huge plus.

We are having a Santa Ana right now.  I'm sure you remember those days well.  I actually had to turn on the A/C yesterday and will probably do so again today.  I am hoping it ends soon b/c I am ready for San Diego's pseudo-fall and pseudo-winter.  I almost never feel that way, but since I feel so nauseous and tired with this second pregnancy, I'd love some chilly weather to make soup and sit by a fire.

I'll let you know how the next step goes, assuming I actually get the guts to try it like I say I will.

Take care,
Briana