Author Topic: any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?  (Read 46350 times)

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Offline sunnysideup850

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« on: September 20, 2005, 10:26:23 am »
DS is ready to move to 2 naps, I believe.  He really fights the catnap and I generally have to wake him at 2:00 in order to fit in the third nap.  So I think if I let him sleep through until he wakes up from nap #2 then I can get rid of the cat nap.  I am looking for suggestions.

Do I just extend the awake time between his morning waking and nap #1 and also between nap #1 and nap #2?  I find it the hardest to extend him after his morning wake up.  He generally wants to go back down within 1.5 hours.  If I wait or try to extend too long then he cries for nap #1 which usually yields a 35 min nap.  If he goes down not crying then I can usually count on an hour to 1.5 hours. 

Do I make any changes to his feeding schedule?  Right now he is on 4 hours between BFing and he takes a solid meal one hour after BF at 10 and at dinner time. 

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks!

Offline sunnysideup850

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2005, 10:28:09 am »
I forgot to add, DS is 7.5 months old and has been on EASY since week 3.

Offline Colesmom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2005, 16:30:33 pm »
IMHO i wouldn't extend the first awake time too much as it seems as it's working.  I read in another book that the first nap is an extension of night sleep (more REM) so it's the most important of the day and the awake interval should be the shortest.  If you do, maybe just try 5 minutes for a few days instead of going straight to 15?

Just thought I'd throw that out there.  Of course your lo is 2 months older than mine...so I'm not 100% sure what his awake times should be.

i am interested to see responses so that i'll know when DS is ready to move to 2 naps.  I cannot wait for that day when I can leave the house for more than an hour!


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Offline Meg's Mom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2005, 21:24:05 pm »
HI

Can you post your typical day for me and i can advise better on A times once i have a look.

Offline sunnysideup850

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2005, 01:45:51 am »
Below is her current schedule.  Thanks for offering to help.

5:45-wake
6:00-6:15-breastfeed
6:15-7:30/7:45-play
7:30/7:45-9:00/9:30-nap #1
10:00-10:15-breastfeed
10:15-11:00-play
11:00-11:15-eat fruit and cereal
11:15-12:00/12:15-play
12:00/12:15-2:00/2:15-nap #2
2:00-2:15-breastfeed
2:15-4:15/4:30-play
4:15/4:30-nap #3
awake until bedtimeat 7:30

Offline Meg's Mom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2005, 22:28:06 pm »
Colesmom is correct on the first nap, the A time is usually shorter then the rest of the day.

I am not sure your LO is ready to drop that catnap, have you tried moving it a bit later?  When we were at that stage Megan took her 3rd nap about 5ish, that may help w/ the fighting it.

To be able to do 2 naps you would need to work to a schedule like this:
(adjusting for your wake up time):

7am wakes up - stays awake for 2.5
9:30/10am - 1st nap
11/11:30am wakes up and stays awake for 3 hours
2/2:30pm - 2nd nap
3:30/4pm wakes up and stays awake for 3 hours to 3.5 hours
7/7.30 bed

Hope that helps.

Offline sunnysideup850

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2005, 15:01:14 pm »
Thanks Meg's Mom, I appreciate your response.  You are exactly right.  His morning wake-up time and his first A time are not conducive to a 2 nap day.  I have tossed around 2 ideas for adjusting those to help us get there.  I would love to hear opinions, pros and cons, etc. on the following options.

1) When he wakes at his usual time (5:45am) I could keep it really dark and quiet, BF him and put him back hoping he'll go back to sleep for an hour or so.  Then our day would start at 7:00 or so and we could only have 2 naps.  My concern with this is that I am essentially creating a night feeding when he hasn't had one/needed one in six months.

2) I could extend his first A time in hopes of nap #1 starting at 9:00 or so.  But with his current waking time of 5:45 that is 3 hrs of A time first thing in the AM.  His current A time first thing is only 1 hr 45 min and sometimes even that is tough.  Also, when I extend his and miss the window he gets really cranky.  If he cries before naps then they are usually only 35 min naps.  So that defeats the purpose of keeping him awake longer since he will then have a shorter nap and we'll be back in the same position.

I'm really tired of fighting the late afternoon nap.  I've found that he gets cranky around 2.5/3 hours after nap #2, but when I put him in his crib he screams.  When I go in to quiet him he smiles and tries to play.  After a few rounds of this I usually take him out for quiet play and it's like he's gotten a second wind and can go for another hour or so.  The problem is that by then it is 5:30 or so and I know the crib won't work so I am stuck taking him on a car ride or in the carriage for a nap.  I really don't want to be tied to the car or the carriage in order to get him to sleep.

His A time b/t naps 1 and 2 is consistently 3/3.5 hours and his A time before bed has been up to 4 hours so I know he can have long A times, just not after his morning wake up.  Suggestions?

Offline Aarismom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2005, 16:09:49 pm »
You may not like this idea...but I'll post it anyway :)

General rule about moving from 2 naps to 1 is that you start bedtime earlier. So if he's going to bed about 7:30, then you would probably move bedtime back 1/2 hour to an hour and adjust your day from there. However, I think Meg's mom has a good idea, I'd try that first.

Instead of getting him up for a bf in the am, might you try soothing him back to sleep? Does he cry out for you when he wakes? Can you leave him in his crib until he cries out for you? If you can only get his wake-up time moved to 6:30 or so, that's where I'd set bedtime in the pm for the time being. That way he's getting more sleep at night, and he's not so upset by the afternoon.

Hope this helps!

*HUGS*
Sonya =P


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Offline Meg's Mom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2005, 15:50:43 pm »
I don't think #2 is really a good idea just now.  It sounds too much to go from 1.75 to 3hr.

I do think you are on the right track w/ trying to bring his 1st wake up forward. 

I am going to send you a PM on early rising which you will find really helpful.  Also there are a few options w/ this idea:

1) as you said feed when he wakes
2) start a dream feed for a while and see if that helps him sleep later
3) give a feed before bed if you aren't already.  When Megan was this age i did, catnap followed by - E - A of bath - E - S. 

If you decide to go w/ 1) as you posted...don't worry too much about the starting a night feed - HOPEFULLY, he start sleeping later and it will resolve itself.

Hope this helps!

Offline Paulsmama

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2005, 21:10:15 pm »
Hi, I was reading this with interest and was wondering what are the signs of getting ready to drop the catnap?  If I could get your opinions on whether you think DS is ready I would really, really appreciate it.

DS is 7 mos and I am now sometimes having to wake him by 3/3:15 in order to fit in a catnap that doesn't mess up bedtime.  I also wake him from his am nap about half the time so he will take a good afternoon nap.  He is getting harder to put down and has occasional nightwakings because of developmental issues (rolling/creeping) and unfortunately we are back to pat/sh some of the time the past couple of weeks.  He seems to be able to handle about 4.25-4.5 hrs combined awake time before his first two naps and about 4.25 hrs combined awake time after that.  So A time is typically 2/2.25/2.25/1.45.  He missed his catnap once last week and was quite fussy and basically passed out after his 7pm bottle, was tired the next day.  I'd love to get rid of the catnap if he doesn't need it because he seems to be really fighting it these days.

Current sleep routine:

7:30/8 wake
9:30/10-11/11:15 nap 1 (sometimes wake him by 11:15)
1:15/1:30-3/3:30 nap 2 (used to wake @3:30 to eat, now catnap too late)
5:15/5:30-6/6:15 catnap (now doesn't want to nap until 5:45)
7:30/8 asleep (past couple of nights 8:30 after 30 min catnap at 5:45)
Cynthia

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Joseph--touchy-textbook??/Sept 2006

Offline Paulsmama

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2005, 21:45:17 pm »
Wow, sorry if that last post sounded crazy and controlfreaky.  I think I'm too stressed out because my mom is coming to visit next week and she's been pushing me to take away the catnap for the past two months ("He sleeps way too much" -- I wish!).  And because MIL is visiting us this week and DS is overstimulated (as she found out when she spent 40 min trying to get him to take his am nap and couldn't, I finally took him in the closet where he promptly passed out, he had been awake nearly 3 hours).  Anyway, thanks for listening and for any responses.
Cynthia

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Joseph--touchy-textbook??/Sept 2006

Offline Matthew's Mommy

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2005, 01:17:35 am »
How is everything going? Any improvements?
Jane
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Matthew July 27th, 2001
Brendan October 21st, 2004

Offline Paulsmama

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2005, 00:27:21 am »
Hi, not sure if that was to the OP or me, but our day went a bit better as DS was quite tired after his long morning and managed both a good afternoon nap of nearly 2 hours plus a 40 min catnap.  Bedtime went ok too, but he woke up just before his dreamfeed with a leaky diaper and DH couldn't get him settled after the feed so he was up for over an hour -- I guess he was too excited after sitting on the daybed watching DH clean up after the diaper mess.  He slept in until 8:12 am after that. 

DS has done OK so far today too, 1.25 hr nap in am (woke him up to stay on routine), 1.5 hr in afternoon (woke up on his own), and MIL is offering him his catnap now, so we'll see.

I'm wondering, if he'll nap for 3.5+ hrs combined his first two naps, is it likely that his awake times will naturally stretch to drop the catnap?  I'm sure my mom will want to try this next week, so I was just wondering if anyone had experience with that.  I've just been too chicken to do more than tweak his routine since it had been going so well (thanks to BW!).
Cynthia

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Joseph--touchy-textbook??/Sept 2006

Offline Meg's Mom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2005, 20:38:24 pm »
Hi there,
I didn't understand your question...if you still need/would like a reply can you please clarify. 

Quote (selected)
I'm wondering, if he'll nap for 3.5+ hrs combined his first two naps, is it likely that his awake times will naturally stretch to drop the catnap.

Thanks
PS: if things are well, then don't fix if it isn't broken  :wink:

Offline Paulsmama

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2005, 23:46:01 pm »
Thanks.  Sorry for being vague.  My general question is what are the signs that a baby is ready to drop the catnap.

1) DS fights his catnap (but has for a couple of months, and has always ended up sleeping except for a couple of times)
2) Catnap is getting pushed later and pushing bedtime later (by about 1/2 hour now), morning wake time is still the same.
3) Nightwakings, but they have really decreased lately (only one each of past two nights) and I think they were/are developmental/solids-related.

I don't want to mess with a good thing, and I think our routine, with the catnap for now, is pretty good.  I guess I was looking for some information to back up my instinct that the catnap should stay for now, or let me know otherwise if that is not the case. 

MIL (staying with us this week) and my mom (staying with us next two weeks) are critical of the whole routine thing and I've been stressing out.  I'm a first time mom and a bit insecure about it.  They push me to get out of the house (which I'd like to do) and they'll watch the baby, only they don't seem to be able to get DS to take his naps on time (or at all) for whatever reason.  I know my mom has outright said for the past couple of months that DS should not be having a catnap.  She thinks I am crazy to wake him up from his first two naps to stay on routine.  I just don't think he's ready to go 4 hrs of awake time at the end of the day, which is what we'd need to get in 2 feeds and some upright time after his bedtime bottle.  I guess there's no easy answer without trying.  I'll try to get up the willpower to stick to my guns with my mom, it's harder after MIL has worked on me for a week already.

Sorry so long.  Thanks for letting me vent.
Cynthia

Paul--spirited/March 2005
Joseph--touchy-textbook??/Sept 2006

Offline Meg's Mom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2005, 22:01:56 pm »
First off, i encourage you to stick w/ your guns w/ mom and MIL.  You are the parent and what they did 30yrs ago has been proven to be wrong.  For example: smoking while prego, no car seats and drinking to improve breastmilk while BF...need i go on?  :wink:  Feel free to use any of my material w/ mom - tee, hee.

Anyway, I think you should follow your instincts and stick w/ your current routine until:
1) he refuses his catnap for several days in a row
2) refuses other naps           "
3) catnap gets so late that bedtime is moved back again...you are on the verge of getting too late.
4) nightwaking come back or increase.

PS: when he does drop the catnap, he won't go 4hr till bedtime...you will increase A times between the 2 naps so it is more like 2.5/3.0/3.0.

Hope that helps!  Good luck w/ Mom.

Offline Paulsmama

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2005, 17:59:08 pm »
Thank you so very, very, very much.

This is stupid of me, but when we go to 2 naps am I supposed to fit 2 bottles + supper solids into 3 hours instead of 4 hours?  I'd think he'd get indigestion?  I'll look at the EASY forum and see if there's something there.

I think at least MIL believes me about the catnap now.  DS missed his catnap yesterday -- I went to church and MIL was going to put him down but at 6 pm he was still awake after having woken from nap 2 at 3:00.  So I said forget the catnap, he was fussy but we stayed with stories and quiet activities etc.  Fed him early and he did not eat well at all, almost fell asleep on the bottle then had a HUGE spit up when burping, cried, then just passed out at 7:15 pm.  The night went ok, but he woke early this morning and still seemed tired so probably will want to nap a lot.
Cynthia

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Joseph--touchy-textbook??/Sept 2006

Offline Meg's Mom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2005, 18:33:23 pm »
Hi, not sure what you mean about the bottles but here was our schedule w/ 2 naps...how funny i went to get our schedule from EASY forum and totally forgot that we dropped the catnap then went back to it. 

Hope this helps, but also check out the easy forum for excellent schedule/feeding ideas.

Quote (selected)
Megan is 6 1/2 months now. Here is our ideal schedule - just recently moved from 3 to 2 naps.

awake: 7:00 AM (varies 6.30 - 7.30)
1) Bfeed: 7:00 AM
solid 8:00 AM
1st nap 9:30 AM (ideally 1 ½ hrs, but usually 1 ¼)

2) Bottle 11:00 AM
Lunch - Solid 12:00 PM
2nd nap 2:00 PM (ideally 1 ½ hrs, but ranges from 1 ¼ to 1 ¾)

3) Bottle 3:30 PM

Dinner 5:30 PM
Bath 6:15 PM

4) Bfeed 6:30 PM
BED TIME 7:00 PM

5) bottle: 9:30 PM
(want to phase this out, has slept thru the night since 3mnts but recently has been waking at night for a feed so afraid to until I get that under control) 

I have to change our schedule, shortly after posting the above (a month ago) Megan started rocking and rolling (literally  ) - hence is more tired w/ all that activity so back to 2 + cat nap. Here is our schedule now at 7 1/2 months:

Ideal awake: 7:00 AM (usually 6.00-6.30  if anyone has ideas on how to make later send me private message - TXS)
1) Bfeed: 7:00 AM
solid 8:00 AM
1st nap 9:30 AM (ideally 1 ½ hrs, but usually 1 ¼) (adjust to wake up time but not earlier than 9am)

2) Solid and bottle 11:30 AM
2nd nap 1:00 PM (usually 1.50-2.00hr)

3) Bottle 3:30 PM

Cat nap 5.30-6.00 (gives me a break)
Dinner 6.00 PM
Bath 6:30 PM

4) Bfeed 7:00 PM
BED TIME 7:30 PM

5) dreamfeed: 9:00 PM (currently phasing out)

Offline Arwyn's mom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2005, 20:27:46 pm »
Hello,

I have been TOTALLY lurking on this thread as I think my lo is ready to move to 2 naps and has been really resisting the catnap for a week now. We just have screaming sessions until Mommy gives up. :roll:  I have been struggling to get a good time frame so thanks Michelle for posting Megan's schedule at 6.5 months. Arwyn is exactly that age so I will give it a try.

Did you find it was hard to adjust at first? I am still not able to keep her up very long in the morning. 2 hours seems to be her max and sometimes if I miss the "window" I am stuck with a 45 minute nap. Trouble is, I can't put her back down as she is happy and wanting to play so we stick it out until she has been awake for at least 2.5 hours. We usually end up with a really needy baby by the end of the day. She isn't overly difficult to console but just not the same happy baby. We end up putting her to bed at 6:15 as she can't hold out. How long did it take to adjust Megan's schedule (if you recall)?

Sorry Paulsmama for jumping in like this  :oops:
Ankie
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Offline Paulsmama

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2005, 00:40:17 am »
No worries!  I jumped on sunnysideup's thread, and any more information helps us all.   :)  (DS is down for his catnap today right on time!)
Cynthia

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Joseph--touchy-textbook??/Sept 2006

Offline Meg's Mom

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any tips/general rules about moving from 3 naps down to 2?
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2005, 02:34:01 am »
I couldn't remember but looked back at my log to see what happened.  Boy, i am glad i forgot  :wink:

Meg was doing the 45min AGAIN so i new it was time to make the the change.  First week was a bit tough- needed lots of pu/pd to get her to extend the short nap.  But by week 2 she was doing just better and only need extending a bit but overall had lots of long naps!

Hope that helps.