How to encourage independent play?

[Anonymous]

Kimberly, no need to apologise.  No offence taken  .  Happy for you to point out that this is the BW website!

Cheers
Ted

[NKmommy]

Hi Kimberley - You haven't ruined a thread at all!!!  The more the merrier.   :wink:

Hi Ted - I think that we may have a misunderstanding.  I agree with you on almost EVERYTHING. 
*  I completely agree that a baby cannot be spoiled.
*  I agree that self-awareness does not happen until later (usually 2 yrs old according to a lot of studies)
*  I agree with you that a baby doesn't know how to manipulate
*  I agree that it is crucial to follow a baby's cues (which is why I LOVE Tracy's BW ideas  )
*  I agree that if you don't respond to a baby's cues in infancy, he/she will develop serious attachment, social, and emotional issues
*  I agree that if a child goes up to mum and wants a hug, the mum should ABSOLUTELY give baby a hug!  My kiddo is bombarded with hugs all day! (I can't imagine a mum saying don't be silly go and play!  That is not at ALL what I meant by encouraging independent play)
* I agree that if they have a secure base, they are more likely to play independently

So I guess I am saying that for most everything, we completely agree!!!     The only thing I differ with you on is that the literature I have read says that by about 5-7 mos, most babies know that their actions have a reaction.  They are NOT manipulative, but they are aware that if they do ___, it will be followed by ___.  For example, my son KNOWS that if he touches the fireplace doors (mom is scared to death that his fingers will get pinched), I will say "Naaaathaaan?", and he laughs and thinks it's hilarious.  Now his favorite thing is to approach the fireplace, turn around smiling, and wait for me to say "Naaaathaaaan?"  He has learned that touching the fireplace gets a response from me. 

I absolutely think that mom should always respond to baby, which is why I love BW and do not believe in cry it out or CC.  But just as I tought Nathan to sleep on his own, I believe it is possible to teach him to play independently for short periods of time.  This doesn't mean I let him cry, or ignore him, or expect him to play on his own for a long period of time.  It means that I am sitting with him in the same room, talking to him, giving him smiles and praise when he looks at me for assurance, and distracting him with calming words or a toy if he is whiney. 

I think that we really are agreeing on more than you think! 

Gosh, I have never gotten into a thread like this!  I guess this is what happens to a stir-crazy SAHM. 



  :shock:

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

Hey all, love this sort of thread, heaps of helpful and useful info always seems to come out!  :wink:  (Kimberley, it is always good to have the reminder of the BW site). 

Sheila, the following hit a note for me, unfortunately I do know of a child who's mum treats him like this and is really really sad to see.  From being a little baby when we gather for playgroup he has been pushed away and told to go and play with the other kids when all he's wanting is a little reassurance and a cuddle or just to hang out next to his mum and play (not even necessarily wanting attention from her) - the other kids were often either sitting on our laps or in near proximity of their mums anyway.  Now she's dealing with a 2.5yr old who can't stand her being away from him yet he is still not getting the reassurance he craves but the opposite.   I'm no analyst, but to me she's now gotten the child that she was working so hard to not have... :cry: .  Now this is an extreme I think, and there has never been gently sitting on the floor and working with him on it as described by Tracy and what we/you were talking about here but just felt compelled to share that it does unfortunately happen.
 

I agree that if a child goes up to mum and wants a hug, the mum should ABSOLUTELY give baby a hug! My kiddo is bombarded with hugs all day! (I can't imagine a mum saying don't be silly go and play! That is not at ALL what I meant by encouraging independent play)

[NKmommy]

Thanks Nikki.  That is so sad.   Don't you just want to save that kiddo and take him home?    I see it too often also...

[Anonymous]

It is so sad for that little boy Nikki!  :cry:

Yes, Sheila I think we are agreeing with alot of things... BUT... with regard to the causal effect... I understand what you are saying re your ds 'learning' that if he touches something he get's a reaction from you and I also understand that you understand that he has not made this association by cognitive reasoning but more about 'learnt behaviour' HOWEVER..... the cause and effect is about RESPONSE.... and at this age they are learning and beginning to understand about their environment... they NEED feedback about their environment so they will keep practicing something to make sense of it.. and learn about the object... they do NOT cognitively think... "if I go over here, my mum responds in a certain way and that is really cool... so I am going to keep going over here"... what they are understanding is... I want to learn about my environment if I do x because I need a response to learn more.

This is ENTIRELY different to being put on the floor and given time to play independently (which is great, if they are happy doing this), but when the baby starts indicating that something needs to change... whine, cry or whatever.. then this is not a 'cause and effect' notion but a COMMUNICATION notion.  It may be that they are bored with the toy they are playing with, or they may want some interaction with an adult, or they may be tired... because fundamentally babies would MUCH prefer to be around other people and learn (which is part of the attachment process) than 'trained' to play longer.  They haven't instigated "oh I am going to cry now because I want to see what will happen"... they are crying because they are communicating.

It is suggested that parental sensitivity may be considered the crucial factor in the development of secure or insecure attachments. So it comes down to HOW you respond to your child which can also affect the attachment process.

So, when a child HAPPILY goes and tries something and has 'learnt' through repetitive behaviour rather than cognitive reasoning that he/she might get a response... this is different to communicating a NEED when expressing something through whining and crying.  By not responding or trying to 'make' them continue playing when they are crying/whining is ignoring the need and that is different behavioural context altogether.

Cheers
Ted

[NKmommy]

Oh, my goodness, so much good info!   :wink:

Ted, I just want to stress again that we are agreeing on most things here.  When you say that babies can make associations based on learned behavior, that IS cognitive development.  There have been tons of studies that show that young babies, as young as just a few months old, have the cognitive ability to alter their environment in order to have  a certain outcome.  For example, there was one specific study I remember that showed that infants were able to learn to suck a pacifier at a very specific rate in order to watch an image on a screen at a certain focus and brightness.  It is truly amazing how they are able to change their behavior to get a certain outcome.

When my kiddo throws his sippy on the floor, he knows I will pick it up. He certainly is exploring his environment.  But there is also no doubt that he is aware that his action will cause a response from mom.  He is not manipulative (in a negative way) or trying to push my buttons, but he is becoming aware that when I do this, mom does that.

I ABSOLUTELY believe that parental sensitivity is crucial in developing secure attachment!  I parent MUST respond consistently and lovingly.

Again, I am not suggesting a parent allow a child to cry for the sake of "training."  This would certainly lead to avoidant or ambivalent attachment.  I am saying that there are certain situations where it is acceptable to coach a baby through play.  If a baby is fussy, and the baby is NOT over-tired, hungry, over-stimulated, it is totally acceptable for mom to distract baby (meaning a baby at least 6 mos old) with a toy, a song, etc, and reassuring words, "You are just playing a bit.  I am still right here."  Mom is still there, mom is still responding to the baby, and mom is a secure and compassionate base.  If baby continues to cry, absolutely pick him or her up!!!   

I relate this again to teaching a baby to sleep.  If baby is crying in his crib, I respond immediately.  Most certainly, he would be much more comfortable sleeping in my arms all night.  But for both his and my benefit, I coach my baby through sleep.  I respond to his cries, pat his back, whisper to him that I am still there.  He still undoubtedly would prefer to be held all night, but I am still a comforting and secure base.

I appreciate the dialogue, Ted!  This is my area of study and is of such interest to me.   :wink:

[Anonymous]

See... even the bit you said

Most certainly, he would be much more comfortable sleeping in my arms all night. But for both his and my benefit, I coach my baby through sleep. I respond to his cries, pat his back, whisper to him that I am still there.

can be subjective as a study by Anisfed, Casper, Nozyce and Cunningham (1990) study provided mothers from deprived immigrant families with soft baby carriers to carry their babies during the first months.  The idea was to promote close physical contact between parent and infant.  Carrying the baby leads to prompt responses to attachment signals such as crying behaviour and would thereby stimulate feelings of security in the infant.  The authors included a control group of mothers who received plastic baby seats. The outcome was dramatic; in the experimental group, 83% of the infants appeared to be securely attached at 1 year, whereas in the control group only 38% were secure. 

I also think Meltzoff discussed the research completed by others that the theoretical account of infants' response to problems should be in terms of the perceptual-motor demands and habitual responses involved in each specific situation.  He goes on to suggest that children are limited to "know how" from birth to 3 (and possibly beyond) and that there is behavioural reorganisation but not conceptual change because there are no infant concepts to work with.

Cheers
Ted

[NKmommy]

Hmmm, I don't understand what you were getting at with mentioning the Anisfed study.  Of course the babies held in the carriers are more securely attached.  There are also studies that show that in most other countries, colic is practically non-existent because of the carrier effect.  Unfortunately, I was not up to keeping my little one in an infant carrier all day and night for the first few months...  We did use it much of the day, though, and I purposely used a co-sleeper for his early infancy.

Guess I just don't understand the relevance of the study to independent play.

 

[NKmommy]

DaveandStine -
I am sorry we hijacked your topic!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Anonymous]

:lol: I mentioned the Anisfed study because you were talking about being of 'benefit' for a baby (which can be perceived as a western civilisation philosophy) to sleep independently.  It has nothing to do with independent play except that of how things are interpreted.

BTW.., what are you studying?

Cheers
Ted

[Anonymous]

:lol:  :lol: .. oh yeah.. sorry about the post!

Cheers
Ted

[NKmommy]

:lol: I mentioned the Anisfed study because you were talking about being of 'benefit' for a baby (which can be perceived as a western civilisation philosophy)

BTW.., what are you studying?

His benefit meaning that mom gets some sleep and stays sane!   :lol:  :lol:

I am (or was, before kiddo) a school counselor with masters in counseling and child development.

You are doing a lot on attachment!  What are you studying?

Talk to you later.   :wink:

[evanskimberley]

Sheila I agree that with you on the sleep thing that your are teaching a skill that he will need later in life. Teddy I agree that lots of what we do is a western perseption on things, but really whats wrong with thatif that is where we live.
Are there any studies that show long term effects on this stuff, like at 5 and 10 years old?

I worked as a primary teacher and would get very annoyed at the chn who were sent to school with no skills as to how to play independently and make independent choices. A lot of our pupils had led a very sheltered and spoiled life for their short childhood and their parents had made all their decisions for them and they lacked a lot of skills needed for school.

At 14 mo I know my DD is a long way off going to school :shock:  but I guess I want to start as I mean to go on! Is there a common ground to making your child feel secure by reassuring them as they are playing on their own, like Shelia suggests and keeping them with you like you suggest?

[Anonymous]

Kimberley, just very quickly... I personally do not think you have to co-sleep in order to get a secure attachment... the most important thing is that you respond with sensitivity and quickly in order to not break trust and to ensure the best possible secure attachments continue etc. 

With regard to independent play.... there are a couple of things I would quickly like to highlight.  1) It is the timing that is really important so I would not like 'train' or 'push' anything in that first year 2) If you provide the response sensitively and nurturingly they WILL begin to independently play as part of a developmental process.  The children you have discussed at your school, I would guess, did not have boundaries (for example, it is dangerous to touch power cords, so you would use distraction and positive reinforcement to communicate that message)associated with their upbringing which can also be an attachment issue, but further to this and more importantly it can be the caregiver/mum etc who is actually too intrusive and 'controlling' and this forms attachment problems for children also, rather than the mum/caregiver following their lead, so for example, if your toddler is happy to explore the environment for a while, then let him/her, but if they display communication signals where they require a response.. then read the response accordingly and follow through. It may be that they are bored with what they are doing, so you might want to switch the activity for them, but if they still communicate dissatisfaction, then there is something else going on, and it may simply be that they need feedback from you, or they require a hug, sleep, food or whatever.  The thing is to not presume that they are trying to 'control' the situation, because they do not have the capabilities to do this.   But the one thing you NEED to REALLY trust is that you will NOT create a demanding toddler/child by responding sensitively in a non intrusive way, but you are more likely to create a 'demanding/clingy' toddler/child by pushing them to play independently when they are not developmentally ready (and you will know they are developmentally ready by following their lead and not putting your own timelines on them and pushing them to do it).

Hope that helps 

Sheila.. studying attachment theory etc

Cheers
Ted

[evanskimberley]

That's really interesting teddy, thanks for elaborating. It must be really tricky for you to condense all your research into bit size chunks for us to relate to!!!

Since coming on here and reading great advice from everyone I've being trying really hard to do a very small thing. DD is very clingy at the moment, only her mummy will do, which can be very trying at times. But when she gets clingy and whiney, instead of saying to her, don't be silly, mummy only here, or what a silly girl you know mummy comes back. (all previoously said, although in caring voice, not a telling off voice) Iknow validate her fears and worries and say, I know your upset cos mummy's put you down, but I'm still here, look we can play like this instead, or I know you don't like it when I go in the other room, but why don't you come in here too?

It's a really small thing but I think sh'es old enough to understand my words and she's not silly to feel the way she is, she's worrid for a reason. It is working too.

I'm floundering a bit at the moment you see cos I had and angel/textbook baby for the first 10 mo and now i have a touchy/spirited toddler and the adjsutment is a bit hard!!! For me and for her! She used to play for up to an hour on her own amusing herself, now I'm lucky if I can get ten mins out of her.

But this is all helping heaps though, thanks!