Can't get her to fall asleep on her own

[cwolff]

Usually at bedtime (which is what I'm concentrating on now) the routine is bath, bottle, books, bed.  When it's bedtime, I swaddle her, and grab the blankie.  Then we go into the rocking chair, I hum a lullaby and when her eyes start to close I put her in her crib.  It usually isn't very long that I do this.  But lately she's been struggling with me, and it's taking longer to put her to sleep.  When she fights me, I put her down.  Then she will spit the paci out and sometimes start loudly babbling.  I tried leaving the room and seeing if she could somehow put herself to sleep, since nothing I did helped.  I listened to her for nearly an hour, and went in a couple of times to give her the paci back.  Then, we she starts to get really tired, she will thrash her head from one side to the other.  This seems to get her worked up.  Sometimes she'll stay on one side for a minute, then startle and start thrashing again.  Again, I have let her do this for some time seeing if she will put herself to sleep.   No way.  I don't understand why everyone's babies can put themselves to sleep and mine can't.  And I didn't think I was too much of a prop because I do put her in the crib drowsy but awake.  No matter what though, in the middle of the night she has never put herself back to sleep.  This could be because of the pacifier, since she can't put that back herself.  I just don't have the energy or the support to completely take the paci away, but plenty of babies can put themselves to sleep with the paci right?  If I give her the paci in the middle of the night to delay a feed, she just thrashes around and spits it out.  So I don't know how I'm going to #1 get her to fall asleep on her own and #2 eliminate the night feeds.  And I can't do Pu/PD because she doesn't cry, and so it could be 2-3 hours of her doing the thrashing and fussing.  I don't know what I'm supposed to do as far as intervention and I'm close to just putting her in the crib and leaving her there no matter what.  Pt/Shush doesn't work, plus she's on her back.  Help!

[Taylor's Mommy]

when you say lately she is harder to put to sleep, do you mean it takes longer?  and has she ever been able to fall asleep on her own?  what time is her bed time?
how long has this been going on and how long have you tried to let her settle herself?  what happens if oyu leave the room?

sorry for lots of Questions, but trying to get more insight into what is going on.  and don't worry, she is only 4 months.  I know plenty of people and even pediatricians that don't start/recommend starting to teach "independent sleep" until 3-4 months.

BTW, what part of LA are you from?  I live in the LBC :lol:

Andrea

[cwolff]

Santa Clarita.  And I haven't put her in the crib wide awake and let her put herself to sleep.  Usually its a little bit of rocking till sleepy and then into the crib.  If I put her in the crib awake she just thrashes around and spits the paci out.  And then she won't go to sleep because she wants the pacifier. So I always have to intervene.  DH is adamant that we can't take the pacifier away, he thinks it's cruel.  So what am I to do?  And her usual bedtime is btw 6:30 & 7:30pm, depending on when her last nap ended.

[caramummy]

Have the same problems with the pacifier and was told to tru the NUK starlight pacifiers.  These are shaped and my dd can hold them in her mouth longer than she can with others. We are in Scotland and its easy to get them - Asdas and various chemists do them and they are also available on the internet.  It is worth a try

[Little Dot]

You could have been describing my DD with what you just said about the whole thrashing around, losing dummy and not really crying situation! I didn't think pick up/put down would work if she wasn't crying but at 7 months old I had to do something about teaching her to put herself to sleep because like you, I kept hearing that everyone elses LO's could do it and wondered why mine wouldn't. I decided that I had to put her in her cot, kiss her, leave the room quickly and wait to see what happened!
She did the usual shouts, moans and banging about but this time I didn't go in. I waited until she sounded a bit more than cross but not really upset then I went in and reassured her I was still around and once she had calmed I left again. I didn't actually give her the dummy at this point. This went on for about an hour the first night with me going in when she just started to cry. Eventually, amazingly, she just got fed up and started to settle. I gave her the dummy at this point and she just went straight to sleep. I took the dummy out and she didn't wake for it that night!
The next night I did the same thing but didn't rescue her until the cry was a real 'come and get me now, I'm tired out!' It was very hard listening to her but I never left her to completely cry it out so I knew she was ok and this was teaching her that there was nothing to worry about. I would come and help her when she really needed me. It still works a treat and although I still give her the dummy now and then, she isn't half as dependent and doesn't want it in the night. Some nights I can tell if she needs a little extra cuddle and I will give her one. Other nights I know she is exhausted and will just go to sleep after one or two revisits. It was the hardest thing I did changing from almost rocking her to sleep to leaving the room and dealing with what came next but bedtimes are much quicker now.
I think you just need to pick a night to start when you are sure you will be consistent and are perhaps not too tired so that you stick at it. I'm no expert but I followed Tracy's suggestions in the book and those of other's on this board and it worked.
My DD was much older too. Your LO is at the perfect age according to Tracy and it won't take you long to crack it because the habit will be easier to break seeing as she is so young. It took me about 5 nights and like I said she was 7 months! It was a little harder to change what she knew so well!
By the way, spent a lovely Christmas in Santa Clarita with our English friend married to an American. Beautiful place!
Hope you have some success. If you wait for a cry and go straight in to do pick up put down exactly as Tracy describes in her book then I'm sure it will work. Good luck

[cwolff]

Thanks Kate.  How long did you have to wait before she cried?  I'm afraid it will be hours before she settles down, and then she'll be way overtired.  Santa Clarita is beautiful when it's mild, but this summer has been so hot I'm ready to move!

[Little Dot]

The first few nights took well over an hour and were exhausting but I was determined to change things. I found it was almost as hard listening to her just fussing on as it was to hear her cry because at least if she cried I knew I could go in and do pick up put down. I just kept busy upstairs and  didn't go in until I felt she was absolutely starting to cry. You are changing what they know so it's going to take a while and there were even tears from me but it shouldn't take you as long because of her age and if I had known about Tracy's book at your LO's age I would have done it then because it is so much harder the longer you leave it. I am dealing with teeth and standing and shouts of 'Mama' now! If you have it, read the section called The Plan on page 43 in Tracy's book 'Solves all your problems'. I follwed that exactly and everything it said would happen did, including feeling that things were getting worse before they got better! Each bedtime got better and she fussed less and less before she made that first cry and then she settled as soon as I went in and touched her. It does take alot out of you and you have to be determined to be consistent and stick to the plan exactly or I don't think it will work.
Have a read and see if you think you could do it. I just kept telling myself that so long as she wasn't crying, even if she seemed to be wide awake, she was ok and I stayed out of the room. She definitely got overtired to begin with but Tracy says to expect that.
Hope it works for you. Good luck.
P.S My DH was in Santa Clarits in July and he agreed that it was HOT, HOT, HOT!

[Tannis]

Hi there, my little guy also does the thrashing about head side to side. It was very unnerving at first, but then I realized he was trying to get himself to sleep. As long as you know she's safe, let her do it until she cries for real. My little guy has done it for 45 minutes, but eventually does sleep. Sometimes on his own totally and sometimes he cries and I have to pick him up.
I know it's sooo hard, but hang in there. My little guy never like the paci, so I can't advise on that, but try just letting her work it out on her own and only picking her back up if she cries. She's not hurting herself in anyway and you're not being cruel. Our jobs as parents are to teach our children how to do these things and it's not always easy, as I'm finding out. Please let us know how it goes!
Tannis xo

[GG]

I just wanted to add that CIO and CC is not something that we advocate.  This is an option some parents use for babies, and that's their choice, but the BW method involves alternatives to CIO, such as pat/shush and PU/PD.

The reason some babies can go to sleep on their own is because of their temperament.  An angel baby is more laid-back, so to speak, and may have an easier time to fall asleep.  A spirited baby, on the other hand, is always taking things in, always wants to do and play, so this baby needs to block things out.  This is one of the reasons having a baby on a routine can help immensely.

You may not have been a prop.  It sounds like you were doing things right!  However, your lo may have hit a growth spurt and it threw things off.  If you don't keep the routine exactly as before (despite the fussing), then the lo gets used to this new way of doing things and gets upset if that's not how you get her to sleep.

It sounds as if the paci is a prop.  I know you don't have the energy to take it away completely but, the way it is currently being used, your choices are: let her fall asleep with it but know that you will need to get up and put it back in her mouth when she wakes up, or take it away and deal do some PU/PD for a few days.  You could try letting her suck on the paci while you are doing the wind down routine in the rocking chair until she gets sleepy, then take it out and put her in her crib.  That may work.  Taking away the paci is not cruel, as long as you don't let her alone to cio in her crib.  If you're there to reassure her, she will be fine.

You posted this on Wednesday.  How have things been the last few days?  Can you give us an update on what you have been doing?

[Little Dot]

I totally agree with you about the cio and cc methods. Before discovering the BW I tried this with my spirited LO when she was about 6 months old and it was the worst thing I could ever have done. Not only did she not go to sleep but she lost all trust in me and I spent the next 2 weeks sitting by her cot every night until she fell asleep just to reassure her I wasn't going anywhere. It was then that I read the BW and realised that being of spirited temperament she just needed that little extra support at sleep times. She is so active and wants to be on the go all the time making wind down really difficult. Even now at 10 months bedtimes are different every night but so long as I stick to exactly the same routine she knows what to expect. I watched the BW on TV shortly after my cio disaster and she was showing a family that rescued their spirited LO at every whimper and fuss, the difference between that and their child's cry for help to sleep. It took a while to hear the difference for me because I was a 'rescuer' at every moan but after seeing that and receiving advice from other moderators on another board I realised that my LO was just finding it difficult to block things out and if I went to every fuss it would just excite and stimulate her further. If I went in the second she made that 'I'm tired now and need your help' cry she would lie down and go to sleep happy.
The pick up/put down method helped me with my dummy dependent baby too (the reason I think she was waking in the first place: it fell out, she wanted it)! Now I only use it if she is struggling to settle and remove it just before I put her down. She doesn't wake for it now really.
I do still have eventful bedtimes and night wakings occasionally but have accepted that because of her spirited nature, she requires just a little extra help sometimes.
I don't know where I would be now with the sleep situation if I hadn't taken on the BW techniques and if you are prepared to carry them out fully and consistently I would recommend them to anyone (and do often!).

[Tannis]

I just want to clarify, in case it was confusing, I do not advicate CIO. My little guy wiggles and throws his head and talks and whines. It's when he finally cries that I do pick him up. I was suggesting that if that is what you're LO is doing (and not really crying) to let them wiggle about in a safe environment. It's like he needs to unwind. Then if or when he does cry, I pick him up until he stops and then set him down again.
It sounded like maybe GG thought I was telling you to try the CIO method. So, I just wanted to clear that up!

[Little Dot]

I don't think you came across that way Tannis. Sounds like you have a similar approach to me. I would be in there all night if I dealt with the wiggles and fussing. Like you said, I think it's just their way of settling and getting ready for sleep x

[Tannis]

Thanks Kate! So, what do you do for nap times to get your LO to unwind? Mine wants to look around at everything and I have the room as dark as I can in the day?
Tannis

[Little Dot]

Same really. If I am at home I will put her in her room and have it as dark as possible. For the half hour before I will try and keep play calm but even this is difficult as she is now taking her first steps and wants to practice at every opportunity! She gets very tired all of a sudden so we just walk upstairs singing lullabies(the same ones for all sleeps so she knows whats coming) and if I'm lucky she may sit cuddled up for one story and then she just starts pulling away trying to look around. At that point I stand and give her a little rock and another quiet lullaby before gently lowering her down. She usually looks up at me and turns over a couple of times and occasionally I might have to give her the dummy but then she just goes to sleep. I might be out for the other nap so she may have that in the car or pram. I know it sounds like bedtime but she needs that gentle, consistent routine to help her block out all stimulation and I would rather do it for half an hour if it's going to get her (and me!) an hour or more break. I enjoy it now that I have accepted it's just what we have to do. It used to annoy me that I couldn't just put her down and leave, but that's who she, my spirited LO, and I wouldn't change her because she is lots of fun. Tiring but fun!
How old is your LO then, Tannis?

[cwolff]

I didn't think you meant CIO or CC either.  That's what I wanted clarified.  If she's just fussing, and I leave her be, I'm not letting her CIO I hope, since she's safe and not crying.

The last few days have been interesting to say the least.  I am really finding it impossible to have a consistent routine.  I think she is changing her awake times, that's the first thing.  Second is she's had a bit of trouble with constipation so we've had to give her prune juice.  And when that kicks in, like it did today, it will wake her from a nap.

But, last night was very interesting.  I had read your posts, and decided to let her be with the fussing for a time.  She went down OK for bedtime and then woke for DF at 11pm.  So I fed her, put her back down.  Next I heard her was sometime after 1:30am.  I left her alone.  Next, heard her around 2:30am.  Got up, and decided I was not going to feed her because she'd just eaten three hours ago and she was NOT hungry.  So, I unwrapped her, changed her diaper and held her for a few minutes.  Then her eyes starting drooping and I put her down.  Immediately she started the thrashing from side to side.  I gave her the paci and left.  Went back to bed.  Tried to ignore the monitor, but she fussed for about fifteen minutes.  I went back in, though it was pitch black so she didn't see me thankgoodness.  I gave her the paci back because she'd spit it out.  In the next 15 min she went to sleep!  I couldn't believe it.  Next I heard her was around 5am.  I went ahead and fed her, put her back down and she slept till 7:30.  So, I will do that again tonight, and try to push that feed up to the morning.  Thanks everyone!

[GG]

That's awesome!  I know about that "I'm tired and need your help" cry.  I leave him in his crib after the wind down and sometimes he's not ready to sleep so I let him fuss around and when I hear that cry I go in, shush him and he turns and falls right asleep.  Of course, this is only if he wasn't overstimulated when I started the wind down, which still happens sometimes.  :oops:

[Tannis]

That's great that your little Rachel is settling in for you. It's such a great feeling the first time they go back to sleep on their own, isn't it?
Kate, my LO was 6 months old on the 22nd. He isn't overly mobile yet, but he's sosoo alert. He notices every little peep and sees every little thing. The nights are getting better, I'm still struggling through the naps. He's looking like he is cutting the tooth next to the one that already came through, so that might not help either.

[Tannis]

Kate, I forgot to mention, he's spirited too with a little touchy mixed in!! xo

[cwolff]

Well last night was ridiculous.  She had diarrhea all day yesterday, so that might have contributed to it.  She woke nearly every half hour from 6:45pm till 9pm.  But she wasn't eating well during the day, so we had trouble getting more than a couple of ounces in her at one time.  So at 9pm, we went ahead and gave her tylenol and fed her.  She spit up most of it and finally went to sleep.  BTW, we did call the doctor and are going in today to see him because she's still having diarrhea.  So then she was up at 12:30am, I didn't DF her because we had fed her at 9pm.  Then I pretty much let her settle herself the next couple of times she woke, and then she had a diarrhea diaper so changed that.  Ended up feeding her around 4:30am and she slept till just after 7am.  I'm hoping that once she's over this bug that maybe we can actually get onto some sort of regular routine.

[GG]

Poor little bug!  I hope it's nothing serious and she gets over the diarrhea soon!  I'm sure the doctor will tell you this but make sure she gets lots of liquids somehow so she doesn't get dehydrated!!

{{HUGS}} for little Rachel.

[cwolff]

Well the doctor said that there is a stomach virus going around and that it could last 7-10 days!  He said she's well hydrated though, and to keep giving her pedialyte every other feeding.  She's not exactly herself still today, still has the diarrhea but she doesn't seem too sickly either.  Unfortunately, for some reason when she wakes up either from a nap or at night, she has an "attack" of the runs.  So I was up at 11pm changing a diaper, 2am, and then 5:30am.  I hope this ends soon as I am exhausted and I'm sure so is she!  Thanks for the well wishes.