Question about starting E.A.S.Y.

[Aimee]

My daughter is 7 months old and slept through the night (7pm to 6am) up until 2 months ago, when she became more active and began rolling over and scooting around.  As with most babies she did not like rolling onto her stomach, so when she did it in her sleep she would wake up and cry.  This caused me to impliment bad parenting by picking her up and feeding her.  It has become a habit for her now to wake up 2-4 times a night and feed.

She has been on a little bit of a schedule, but I don't keep it 100% like I should.  Her evening schedule has been the same for since she was 1 month old, however the rest of her schedule is off, she has no consistent naptime.

She also started daycare the beginning of September, she goes 3 days a week M, W, F, 10am-4pm.  These are also her bathdays. 

My question is before I start implimenting EASY, should I be giving her a bath on a more consistent basis, would me keeping her on the M, W, F bathday be throwing her off everynight?

She is a spirited child and I will have a hard time with PU/PD, as I have been doing CIO if she refuses and it is getting worse, when she would scream I wanted to cry, but I was at a loss, thankfully upon finding out about Tracys book I can get her on a good schedule and get her to sleep through the night again.

Her current schedule is below.

Wake at 7-8:30
E bf first thing
A 1 hr
E Cereal and Fruit
A 1-1.5 hrs
E bf
A 30 minutes
S 30 min - 2hrs
E bf
A 1-1.5 hrs
E bf
S 0 min - 1hr
E bf
A play till 5:30-6pm
E Solids at 5:30-6pm
A Monday, Wednesday, Friday is bathday
E bf
A play till 7pm
S sleep until she wakes up, between 10pm-4am (will do this 2-4 times a night)

Thank you for all your help!

[stasztk]

Aimee,
Did you ever get help on this?

[Deb_in_oz]

hi - i don't think having baths only 3 nights will throw off the other nights' routine.  lots of kids don't bathe every night for whatever reason (daycare, ezcema, etc).

but looking at your routine i do have a couple of observations:
your lo at 7 mo shoudl be on at least 2 firmly established naps. i notice that your morning routine involves a very long awake time (adding up all the "A"s you noted = 3hrs + time spent BFing and eating solids.  when are you putting her down for that first nap?? then you seem to have a much shorter awake time after that nap before you try to put her down again.

i woudl suggest that you break the day down a little more - maybe a 2-  2 1/2 hr awake time before 1st nap (so if wakes at 7, put down around 9-9:30) then depending on how long that nap is you can aim for a 3 hr awake time in the second A period aiming to put down for nap between 1pm (if does 30-1hr at 1st nap) - 2pm (if she does a 2 hr nap which you mention she can do sometimes).  then based on how much sleep she gets at 2nd nap you can judge whether sometimes she needs a catnap around 4:30/5pm or can go the distance to dinner/bedtime. it is not unusual for a 7 mo old to be awake 4 hrs at that last awake time (it usually increases at each cycle in the day) My 7 mo only naps 45 min in the morning between 9-10 and then 1 1/2 hrs between 1 and 3pm and then is up until bedtime of 7:15pm. i wish she would sleep more but this is her rhythm. if she only does a 45 min 2nd nap i will put her down bet 4:30-5 for a 45 min nap and push solids a little later.


to make it clearer you could aim for (obviously you can adapt this as you know her best):
wake 7am and BF
8am solids
9:30 nap (until 11+/-)
11 BF
12 solids
1 or 1:30 nap (until 3 +/-)
3 or 3:30pm BF
4:30/5 catnap if necessary on a bad napping day
5 or 5:30 pm solids
bath time on M/W/F
6:30/7 last BF and bedtime

another ? - are you still doing any CIO?  Tracy firmly is against CIO and if you have been doing this regularly i suggest you see the part of her latest book where she discusses re-establishing trust after CIO. She truly belileves there is a BW way to handle every situation - you just have to find out what will work for you and lo without resorting to CIO.

if you find PU/PD difficult with your spirited one (i too have a spirited sleeper and cannot use PU/PD) I suggest you try pat/shh. i found it is more calming for the spiriteds rather than giving them the interaction of PU/PD (as if they need another excuse not to sleep -look mom is here and she keeps PU/PD with me  :roll: )  I will pick Olivia up and hold her until calm and then resettle as i do at the start of our bedtime ritual (for us i sway and sing rockaby baby, put her down and say "sleepytime, night night") i will do this any time i have to PU so that i reiterate it is sleep time.  just be sure to shh really loudly by her ear and pat and / or hold her in cot. i find this can work in under 2 min with Liv when she just cannot let go to get to sleep.

by ensuring she gets some solid sleep in that second half of the day she is less overtired at bedtime which will usually translate into better night sleep ("sleep begets sleep" )

[Aimee]

Thank you for your response, it is extremely helpful. In the past week I have decided to postpone using the PU/PD and am still bf'ing her when she wakes up (not sure if this is the best thing) because she has been cutting her two top teeth at once, and has a stuffy nose and fevers off and on for 4 days now. I feel bad to push her atm.

However I did try PU/PD two nights in a row and she got progressively worse, was very squirmy and then would not stop crying (in or out of my arms). I had to walk out of her room and drown a few tears and walk back in to try again.

Like you were saying about your spirited one, maybe it isn't the best method for her as well, maybe I will try the shoosh pat method. Do you just let her cry when you are doing that? I would think that would almost be like CIO. If I put her in her crib and immediately starts to cry, if I pick her up straight away, she stops, like a switch. When she was first born, I didn't read ANYTHING about taking good naps or sleep patterns, I assumed if they wanted to sleep they would sleep. I soon found out how uninformed I was, however she would take 2 good naps daily and slept through the night. How things change. 

I agree with having her on two naps a day, I can tell she really needs it, I haven't found the best way to get her to calm down for naps or nighttime, she wants to squirm and crawl around, when I think I have found one, she throws me a curve ball and won't do the same thing 2 nights later.

Her first nap is between 11am-12:30pm, she used to take a nap at 10am and sleep for 1-2 hours, then refuse an afternoon nap, so I implemented bad parenting (again  ) and held her out longer. When I do start this I think I will work with her daycare, I usually don't bring her in until 10am, but I can see if I can bump that up to 9am, so she can get a morning nap in at daycare, after I have established a set routine.

Yes, I have used CIO since she was about 3-4 months, and I agree with Tracy that isn't the method to use. I don't see anything in the book I have by Tracy about re-establishing trust ("The baby whisperer solves all your problems", 2005), am I missing it? It scares me that I have done this to her.

Thanks again!!

[Deb_in_oz]

Hi Aimee,

I would say that if you want long term success that it would best to start a plan of action when your daughter is well.  it will be more confusing if you are trying to settle her to sleep independently etc and then some of the time still nursing to sleep, so if it will make you feel stronger to start working on EASY when she is 100% then i think that is fine. Consistency is a large part of the battle to succeed.

I am no expert on PU/PD because i have only tried it on an odd occassion and then in an adapted form.  I suggest if you choose to use this method that you seek specific support from the moderators there (i coudl give them a heads up if you want me to involve them on THIS thread...) as you shoudl know that it is not an instant "fix" - i know it seemed to get worse over those 2 nights, but when you try it again you need to be prepared to stick with it (it is more confusing for them if you keep changing tactics) I suggest you re-read the PU/PD info in the book and ask questions on the board as you go.  Tracy states that it can easily take 1-2 weeks with PU/PD.
As hard as it is, i think you also need to commit to staying in her room unless you feel you will actually harm her.  make sure you are implementing PU/PD correctly - as soon as she stops crying you put her down , etc  I do think pat/shh is an option still if (like my lo) PD is too stimulating for her. 

what i do is stay with her and get her calm in the cot (fortunately mine is not a crier, but just sometimes cannot "let go" to go to sleep or wakes early and needs help resettling) and laying down, then i pat firmly/rhythmically on her back while shhing loudly by her ear.  i stay and continue this until she is back to sleep or very calm at least and leave her to see if she can then settle herself to sleep.  if she starts playing again or crawling in the cot i give her a few minutes but if she seems unable to lay down and go to sleep i try again with shh/pat.

Do you just let her cry when you are doing that? I would think that would almost be like CIO.

she rarely cries, but even if she does, i am right there with my hands on her calming her and reassuring her.  this is the difference with this mthod versus CIO.  you don't leave them on their own to feel abandoned.  our job is to work with lo to get calm and feel safe and secure in their bed to go to sleep on their own.  with shh/pat or PU/PD you don't leave the room.

 

I agree with having her on two naps a day, I can tell she really needs it, I haven't found the best way to get her to calm down for naps or nighttime, she wants to squirm and crawl around, when I think I have found one, she throws me a curve ball and won't do the same thing 2 nights later.

i too deal with the squirming and crawling around. if it is part of them settling into sleep themselves i leave her be, if i can tell that it is going nowhere fast i will go in and try to re-do my settling routine or use pat/shh as i mentioned above.  The ever-changing rules are something i am familiar with - not sure if it is a spirited thing or just babies, but olivia is forever changing her "routine" on me  :roll:  I have learned that i have to figure it our and revise my plans accordingly.  2 days she'll take great naps and then have an "off" day where i can find no reason for it, etc

Her first nap is between 11am-12:30pm, she used to take a nap at 10am and sleep for 1-2 hours, then refuse an afternoon nap, so I implemented bad parenting (again ) and held her out longer. When I do start this I think I will work with her daycare, I usually don't bring her in until 10am, but I can see if I can bump that up to 9am, so she can get a morning nap in at daycare, after I have established a set routine.

i don't think holding her out longer is the answer - if she was fighting her afternoon nap due to too much sleep i woudl just keep her 1st nap shorter (1 hour max.) and see if that helps.  she needs the second nap to make it through to bedtime happily and so she is not overtired for night sleep. if she is fighting the 2nd nap because she is overtired or overstimulated that is being addressed here and now so that could change.

If you can get her daycare to start at 9 that woudl be brilliant.  then you could really institute set naps times of 9:30 and 1:30 which shoudl work for the daycare place easily i imagine (and then you can have the same daily rhythms wheteher at home or daycare).  you do what you can to try to find the balance between a routine and watching their cues. I think you really need to ensure she is going down for naps earlier as that will be what will make it easier for her to go down for sleep - if she is not overtired and overstimulated i promise you  that things shoudl improve and you will see that less intervention is needed and she will go to sleep easily on her own...