Any danger in exclusively expressing?

[J&Jsmom]

Hi

My DS is 10 days old and he's killing my nipples. I never had any problems breastfeeding with DS #1 but DS#2 just can't seem to get the hang of it. He opens his mouth properly and latches on, but then after a few sucks, he brings his lips closer and closer together so that he eventually pinches my nipples (freakin' sore!! :shock: ) and I have to take him off and start over.

I have expressed milk for two feeds today and given it to him out of a bottle. While it's a pain to have to keep sterilizing the pump, it has been far less painful for me and I can also see how much he's taking in. It also takes far less time - and given I have a 19 month old who doesn't h ave too much patience, I need to keep feeds short.

So is there any danger in expressing for all feeds and giving them to him out of a bottle? Besides the close contact, does he lose anything else? Is he in danger of not getting enough milk (because the pump isn't as effective as him sucking)? Will I not be able to make enough milk as he grows?

I don't want to give up breastfeeding but I can't keep handling this pain. I've had midwives sit with me to make sure he's latching on properly. He is - he just gets lazy and slides off. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

[Lilah'sMommy]

I'll start by saying that I am by no means an expert in this, but from what I've read, it can be hard to maintain your milk supply when you pump exclusively.  Your ds may also start to prefer the bottle, making breast-feeding no longer an option, so when you need to increase milk supply during a growth spurt, ds, who is the best man for the job, won't be able to help you.  That said, I know someone who exclusively pumped for six months, which is a good long time to maintain a milk supply without suckling.

I've also read that the antibodies that your body makes to fight off infections the baby is exposed to are not as potent/effective if the baby is not attached to your breast.  It sounds like voodoo, but it goes something like this:  The baby sucks and the viruses/bacteria enter your body through the nipple.  Your body makes antibodies to those germs on the spot and sends them back out through the milk.  This does not happen if you're exclusively pumping, it seems.  Or so my book So that's what they're for! says.

Maybe you can keep breast-feeding some of the time, but give EBM at others to give yourself a break, but still keep the option of bfing open.  Once ds is older and less sleepy, he might also be a better nurser, and he'll certainly be more efficient!

HTH!  I'd be really interested to read other responses.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

I pretty much agree with Sabrina, although I've never heard the part about breastfeeding actually creating more antibodies...I admit that I'm skeptical, but it may very well be true!

The bit Sabrina said about having difficulty increasing supply for growth spurts is also true.  It's hard, but it can be done.  You'll end up pumping MUCH more frequently than you'd have to be breastfeeding though, in order to get the right stimulation to increase your supply.

I'd be more inclined to try and find a very good lactation consultant for help.  The midwives you saw might not be specially trained enough.  And speaking of training, you might also just have to train your lo to stay alert and latched correctly. Which means that every time he loses the latch, you have to stop and start over.  In the long run, this might be easier than exclusively pumping...  It's really up to you what you'd prefer.  Let us know how it goes and if you have more questions!

[Erin M]

There was a lady in my breastfeeding class who pumped exclusively for a year (!) as her DS never got the hang of breastfeeding.  She said you must use a hospital grade pump, nothing else will work for an extended time like that to maintain milk supply.  I have a friend who is currently trying to exclusively pump as well, using a Medela pump in style, but her milk supply is going down.  Maybe it depends somewhat on the person - not all together sure.
Good luck!
- Erin

[15milner]

Melissa

A couple of thoughts

I agree with Erin, see if you can see a trained breastfeeding councillor - can't you get to see one if you contact the NCT breastfeeding helpline. I found them very helpful.

Try a different postition - when I got sore nipples from trying a cradle / cross cradle postition, I tried feeding 'rugby ball' position which worked well and my nipples felt much better.

alex

[newhampshiremummy]

Ouch! My jaw clenches just reading- my ds had the same good latch/shallow suck sequence and it killed. One of my nipples is permanently damaged.  (The side he favored for chomping). I later found out he must have been teething b/c he had his first two teeth by 3 months and 8 teeth by 8 months, plus his suck is weird even now with bottles and sippy cups. While teething may or may not have been the main issue, I know that the poor suck and my frustration lead to a decrease in supply anyway and I had to use a (hospital grade) pump to increase anyway. In hindsight, I might have tried exclusively pumping because those daydreamy moments of bonding with baby at the breast were more like Mommy trying hard ot hide the pain in her face with her body shivering from jolts of pain. I was afraid of the things people have already mentioned re:breastfeeding only, so I stuck it out on the breast, but I ended up weening before I really wanted to because it was sooooooo much work to keep up my supply. 
As for the benfits/burdens of breastmillk only/breast only/bottles and breast/expressed breastmilk- IMO what matters the most is that you can give your baby your best self, so whatever means of feeding him works for you, works for him. So, what he might lack in antibodies as they go from breast-bottle-baby, he makes up for in antibodies he gains from the endorphins of being held by a smiling, comfortable mummy.
Good luck!

[GraceKellysmom]

Although I agree with the previous poster that a happy mommy is a must, it is way too soon to hang up your hat and off to exclusive pumping.

Some women can ex pump just fine, like Erin said you will need to pump more often than you feed. But why not continue to get support from your lc and keep at breastfeeding until at least (you insert weeks or months)? It will be SO much easier in just a few weeks - and SO much easier in the long run, especially having a young toddler too. Mine were 17 months apart and I am thankful nursing Max went well - my life and his were so much less complicated. Cleaning bottles/pumps/sterilizing/finding time to pump - I did that all during nursing strikes and it takes a lot of time!

I remember having to latch Max on/off several times until he realized what he needed to do. I also taught him "suck, suck, suck" (I said this outloud, stroked his cheek, and he sucked at the breast) when he got sleepy - added bonus later when I was trying to teach him to suck his thumb or he was crying and I could say it and he would suck his thumb.

[rooby-rooby-roo]

Hi there Mel, sorry to hear you having a hard time. I was so so careful this time to avoid any nipple trauma, as i has some serious damage last time round. But those first few weeks were nonetheless painful, and i can't honestly say that until about 4 weeks postpartum that i was set on continuing with breast feeding.

Red was and still is a very fussy feeder and latcher. He'll be on and off until i let down, then on and off because the milk is rushing out, then on and off because if his reflux. Although he is for the most part a happy child, feeding times for us are still a night mare.

Just remember that whether you have breastfed before or not, these first few weeks are tough. You nipples need to get used to it again, and that is no mean feat. Go and see a LC, there should be one linked to your hospital. If not ring the NCT breastfeeding line. If you have no joy with them then PM me as i have a friend who is training to be an LC and maybe able to give you some more specfic advice.

Make sure that everytime he slips off, and gets lazy, you release the latch and start again, i had to do this too, and it was awful as i knew it would take him ages to latch properly again, but it was worth it, he did learn quickly not to be so lazy. He also became the most super-efficeint feeder ever. He is done now in like 5 minutes.

YOU CAN DO IT!

[s_olano00]

Melissa,

I would advice you to go and see a LC. I think that you should give it a try for a bit longer, and I guess that after 10 days, your milk supply is not fully established yet, so I guess that expressing might be even frustrating for you.

I will tell you my story: since my DD was born, I thought I had problems with sore nipples, which turned out about 2 weeks ago that it was dermatitis caused by an allergic reaction to a silicon part of my breast pump (Avent).

After 3.5 months of dealing with it, the situation was so bad (skin shedding off, bleedin, cracked nipples, unbelievable pain, etc) , I decided to stop bfeeding until my breasts were completely healed, which made my milk flow almost non-existing (as a matter of fact, my left breast started to dry up).

After getting encouragement from a board in this site, I decided to call a LC from La Leche, whom just by seeing me told me what I had (before, a midwife and a nurse saw me and both told me that I had sore nipples)

After having my breasts healed, I worked on getting my milk supply back and went to see the LC because DD wouldn't take my breast anymore - she realised that the bottle requires less work than taking my breast. Since she is 4 months old (I was planning to stop bf at 6 months), I decided to keep on expressing and giving her my milk in a bottle. We both are very impatient and I really don't want to go thru that process aain with her.

What happens now is that as a matter of fact, I have to express every 2 hours in order to keep my milk supply up (I use the same breast pump sans the silicon part), and my left breast still won't produce as much milk as it used to when I was bfeeding, but the situation is way better than when I was squirming in pain when I had to bf, so better that now I am considering to keep on expressing for longer than 6 months.

So basically, if you are having problems with bfeeding, seek for appropriate professional help so things won't get worse and at the end, if you still decide to express, be aware that you will have to do it more often than usual and that you will always have to be paying close attention to your milk flow, but at the end, it's possible!!

Good Luck

[J&Jsmom]

Thanks for all the replies guys - sorry I've been slow to respond, just haven't had time to get online. The good news is that he seems to be improving a bit. I tried adjusting position slightly which forced him to open his mouth slightly wider. He now seems to have a better latch on - although he still closes his mouth when he gets sleepy. I've been taking him off and putting him back on when he does that. Either I'm getting used to the pain or my nipples are starting to toughen up because it's bringing fewer tears to my eyes.

The good news is that when I have expressed, he takes the bottle with no problem and has been able to go back to the breast with no problem (other than his existing ones) either. So I'm going to stick with it and hope that it improves - and will just use expressing occasionally to give my nipples a break.

I'll speak to my health visitor today about an LC too. Thanks again for all your support

[GraceKellysmom]

FWIW, some moms have nipple pain *because* they are offering bottles - this is what some authors refer to as "nipple confusion". He may be having a tough time understanding the different sucks, and he is getting lazy at breastfeeding because it is harder than the bottle suck. Most lc's would recommend stopping the bottles and working on breastfeeding until your nipples feel better, and then slowly introducing one bottle. (This is why it is recommended not to give bottles until 3-4 weeks old) HTH And glad you're feeling a little better.  :wink:

[Eden's Mum]

Hi. I just wanted you to know that i did exclusively express for 6 months of breast feeding. i wanted to feed my son for a year, but he went on  strike at 7ish months and  i was so determined that i kept on expressing until he was ready to take cows milk. I did not experience any drop in my supply, in fact, becasue i was so concerned about producing enough i expressed more than he needed and froze the excess. since he was weaning anyway, we ended up throwing loads away. I f i kept it in the fridge i cold see how much was hind milk once it had settled.

Advice i would give if that is the way you end up going, is that if you know milk is there but nothing is coming, then you are tense. i could make the let down come by thinking about it in the end i got so good at it. There is like a mental switch, that i can't describe that causes it to come in when you express that you don't need when you are feeding. I found it best to do it when Ds was asleep and i knew he would be down for a while. Once i had started i foudn it was best not to stop until the breasts were empty, if i got interupped it was harder to  get the full amount off.

Also, make absoultely sure you have emptied the breasts each time as that will ensure you get more milk. LO shouldn't loose out onthe bonding, particularly f you try skin to skin contact and give the bottel yourself as much as possible.

Sometimes these things happen. I had a lactation consultant who couldn't solve our problem with us so expressing was the only option. it was caused partly because he bit me so much as his teeth were in so he made me bleed, i would yell, and he would cry. He was teething still and got comfort from biting, and i would attempt to pre empt him but whipping him off when he looked like he was oging to do it. a bottle was less hassle for him.! That coupled with a cold meant that he just gave up trying with me and wouldn't feed atall no matter what i did.

Don't feel bad if it works better foryou that way, and know that it is possible to do, and lo is still getting those great things taht breast milk can give.