Pat Shush... Am I doing it right?

[scarletts mum]

Hi

After five weeks of 45 min naps I am tackling them this week with Pat Shush for my 14 week old dd.

I started yesterday and basically she goes down pretty well, we start wind down 30 mins before, turn off tv etc sit her in her chair with no stimulation etc.  Then we go upstairs, she has a cuddle, gets tucked in, given her dummy and off she goes to sleep.

When she wakes up after around 40 minutes I pick her up, put her on my shoulder pat shush her for a few minutes then put her back down tuck her back in, say the same thing that I always do, pop in her dummy and then leave her to it..

Am I doing it right?  Should I be pat shushing for a particular period of time? Should I be using her dummy?

We have had minor success in the last two days, in that after around half an hour of waking up, two or three visits into her room, she is going back to sleep.  Is this what normally happens? 

Will she eventually just sleep through the 45 min cycle, am just wondering what signs to look out for or if I just keep on pat shushing indefinately??  Should I be not using her dummy?  I tried this morning not using it and all hell broke loose!  Just wondered if that is a battle for another day and I should just concentrate on getting the extended naps cracked first!

Sorry for all the questions! All advice gratefully received!

Thanks
Lizzie

[Aarismom]

Hiya Lizzie!

First of all, I want to say I envy you for being so calm during all this! Soo many 45 min nap days tend to drive me up the wall. That said, I just want to let you know what's happening.

She's going through a period of time when her day sleep is developing, so you can expect to fight with 45 min naps for awhile. You'll know when she's coming out of it when she starts taking longer naps for you. I can attest to that, I just went through it, and there is an end!

As for pat/shh, it looks like you're doing ok. She's old enough now for PU/PD. I would refer you to Tracy's sleep interview at the top of the sleep forum for detailed instructions on how to do that. It really cleared up a lot of my questions! As long as you're putting her down sleepy but awake, and you're encouraging her to fall asleep on her own without your help, you're ok. It's up to you, but I would start weaning her of the paci soon...but if you want to tackle the 45 min nap thing first, by all means, do that. You can bite the bullet and do both if you like, but it's not going to be easy unless she's already discovered her thumb or has another way to self soothe.

You may end up spending 20 or so mins in her room during this time. What you can also try is just putting a hand on her back if she isn't fully awake. What will happen is eventually she'll fall back into light, then deep sleep. Her limbs will once again stop moving/twitching, and her REM will stop (literally speaking). At that point you may want to stay for 5 mins or more to make sure she stays asleep, because at that point she's in light sleep. Once the twitching stops completely, she'll be in deep sleep.

Hope this helps!

*HUGS*
Sonya =P

[scarletts mum]

Hi

Thanks for the reply and the encouragement! Do I sound calm?? Wow... must be the chocolate biscuits I am troffing to keep myself sane!

I dont think I can face weaning her off her dummy just yet as we are weaning her off her swaddling at the mo.  One arm in one arm out and my nerves just couldnt take both.. I dont think its too much of a problem at the mo given that she will take it and spit it out after five mins when I first put her down and then continues to sleep for 45 minutes.

Re PU/PD versus Pat shush.. should I continue for a for days with Pat Shush?  Maybe till the end of the week and if no improvement try PU/PD?  I am a little confused as to what to try and when.  Todays afternoon nap she nearly settled three times but no joy!  I can see that she wants to go back to sleep its just getting her there.  I try not to spend too long in there with her as she sees me and starts smiling.. which of course makes me want to get her up to play!! So I just pat shush for a few minutes and then leave.  Do I do it until she gets sleepy again? 

Thanks
Lizzie

[N Lou]

Hi Lizzie,
do you get into the room BEFORE she wakes?
If she is waking at the same point each time, go into the room a few minutes earlier and as she stirs, do pat/shh while she's still in the crib.  I don't know if you've already tried it but it may be that by picking her up, she's getting stimulated.  Pop the paci in if she finds comfort in that.
I would give that a go for a few days and if there is no improvement then you may want to start thinking about PU/PD.
Personally i would stay in the room until she starts to go into a deep sleep.

HTH

[scarletts mum]

Hi

Actually I get in there after she has woken up.  When I pat shush her in her cot do I role her onto her side so I can reach her back?

Incidentially could you guys give me advice on her wind-down routine, I am thinking this is playing a big part.  This afternoon I went to friends house about half an hour before Scarlett would be due her afternoon nap.  As she lives in a flat I left her pram downstairs and sat talking to my friend for about 30 mins with Scarlett on my knee, she got very yawny and her eyes started to get heavy, then I took her outside and popped her back into her pram, straight to sleep! No dummy or anything... in fact I walked to the post office, she woke up for about 10 minutes then went back to sleep... I am home now and she is still in her pram in the garden fast asleep!!

Is this a coincidence or maybe being close to me during her wind-down helped?  I dont normally do this....

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Lizzie

[Aarismom]

If Pat/shh is working to get her back to sleep, I wouldn't change it!

TBH, I think you're already instinctively doing the combo of PU/PD and pat/shh. For PU/PD, you pick them up (assuming they are crying), calm them down with pat/shh past their ear, then put them down immediately after they calm down enough that they aren't crying out. If she starts again, repeat the process. Keep doing this until you can pat/shh in the crib alone, and they fall asleep. Tracy recommends staying until they are in deep sleep, but if they can get to sleep on their own without any more help from you, I would just leave the room.

You said she has a tendency to play when she wakes...pat/shh and PU/PD are only for those times when she cries out for you. If she's playing happily in her crib, then maybe falling back to sleep on her own, let her. You don't need to interfear at all. Only if she begins crying out for you do you go in. Even if she doesn't go back to sleep, make a note of when she woke up so you know when to put her down for her next nap...but I would give her maybe another half hour to see if she falls back to sleep on her own before getting her (assuming she's not crying out for you).

*HUGS*
Sonya =P

[scarletts mum]

Aha... its starting to become clear now!  I am def doing a mixture of PU/PD and pat shush..  I do have a tendency to go in if I hear her stirring rather than waiting for an outright cry... Tomorrows nap I will start to wait for the cry rather than just her chattering.

So then, she is on 4 hourly EASY.. she happily stays up for two hours so she feeds at 7.00am... goes for a nap at 9.00 sleeps till 9,45.... if I pat shush etc through till  next feed time and only get some fitful sleep out of her, what time would be best to put her down for her next nap after her 11.00am feed?

Thanks for your help on this Sonya, I am learning loads.. I have been getting a bit confused with it all but you are making it so much clearer for me..

Lizzie

[Aarismom]

11:45-noon

Although keep an eye on her sleepy signs, even if it is a fitful sleep, it's still sleep. You want to count 2 hours from when she actually wakes, even if the nap was broken. It's usually best (if you can) to put her down within a half hour-hour (an hour if she had no 1st nap) of when she normally goes down for her second nap, assuming you get her up around the same time every morning to set her biorhythm.

Mine will sometimes sleep for 40 mins, wake/play/fuss (sometimes will cry out for me right before she's ready to go back to sleep if she's having trouble) for 10-30 mins or so and then go back to sleep for another 40 mins. I usually leave her in the crib for her entire nap time, keeping track of when she wakes and sleeps throughout so I know how much she slept and when to put her down next. I never go to her unless she cries out for me, and I never take her out unless she's had a good 1-2 hour nap, she acts like she's not going to sleep anymore no matter what (she seems rested or I just can't calm her down enough to go back to sleep), or the 2 hours are up.

That's how I do it though; how you do it is entirely up to you. Just be careful not to rush in at every single sound you hear. I've had to do this because when she wakes early from a nap, she usually plays first and seems happy, which is deceiving, because then she'll act tired and cranky until her next nap if I get her up then.

*HUGS*
Sonya =P