Author Topic: Dream Feed Best Route?  (Read 3981 times)

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Offline Mom to M&M

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« on: September 26, 2005, 13:56:50 pm »
Hi there. Marisa is now 6.5 weeks and sleeps great at night. She very much wants to have her bedtime be between 7:30 and 8 and we have complied. She then sleeps very peacefully and we dream feed her around 10:30 - sometimes closer to 11, sometimes closer to 10. She eats about 4-5 ounces in her sleep, burps and goes back to sleep right away. Regardless of what time the DF is, she awakes between 2:30-3:30 am and takes a full bottle. Should we continue with the dream feed? Or is it better to skip the DF and let her wake up on her own? I have no problem with the DF - but it seems like it doesn't have much impact...

I should mention that we think (and the doctor agrees) that she also has reflux and may be going on Zantac...

Thx much.
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Noelle

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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2005, 20:11:24 pm »
Hello!
How long have you been giving the dreamfeed?  Sometimes it takes a little bit to kick in.  Also, how much is she getting during the day? Does she feed every 3-4 hours?  If not, she may not be getting enough and making up for it at night.  At 6.5 weeks, it isn't uncommon to have that night waking out of hunger  :D
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2005, 21:44:59 pm »
Hi Noelle - thanks for the response. I have been doing the DF for about 1.5 weeks now. We used to have her bottle at 6 and then activity and then nap and then not bedtime until after 10 pm bottle. However, now she is on 3.5 hour easy (sometimes goes 3.15 sometimes 3.75). She is an eater and takes 5-6 ounces at each feeding during the day (so at 8, 11:30, 3 and 6:30), about 4.5 at DF and at least 5 in middle of night. I have no problem with her waking from hunger - just wanted to make sure we were doing this best way. What do you think? Do we need to adjust anything? She resists cluster feeds...
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Noelle

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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2005, 00:44:11 am »
I think that sounds great and the earlier bedtime is definitely the way to go, IMO.  The only thing I would maybe suggest is topping her off before her bedtime.  If her last feed is at 6:30 but she goes to bed at 7:30/8 I would top her off right before bed..even if it is an ounce or two.  Then her dreamfeed around 10:30 give or take.

 :D
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2005, 01:42:41 am »
Thanks again Noelle. I think she may be having a growth spurt - she also slept a bit more than usual today. But would you even suggest the topping off if she has a bit of a reflux problem? Maybe let her have a full bottle at 6:30 and then a little bit more if she'll take it at 7:30 and then wait until as close to 11 as possible for the DF?
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Noelle

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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2005, 02:46:26 am »
HELLO AGAIN.  :D
I DON'T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH REFLUX SO I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION :(    IF IT DOESN'T HURT HER, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD DO.  I'LL SEE IF I CAN FIND OUT FOR YOU  :D
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Offline Tonya

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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2005, 12:36:38 pm »
I see no problem with topping her off with an extra ounce or two, as long as she doesn't appear to be in any distress while sleeping.

She will have had a full hour or so from the last full feed, so I think that would be fine! :D

If you notice any disruption in her sleep before the dreamfeed, think of the top off being the culprit, and go from there.

I think you'll be fine though!
Tonya
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           Madison - "Princess Pea", 11/29/06


Offline Mom to M&M

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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2005, 16:16:43 pm »
Thanks guys. We'll try that starting tonight. She may also be starting Zantac this week - waiting to talk to the pediatrician again today. Poor girl.
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2005, 16:18:22 pm »
Also - last night she only took 3.25 ounces at the DF - just too out of it sleeping to take more - so she got up a little earlier than usual in middle of night. But it's hard to tell if it's only hunger waking her or also the acid...
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2005, 12:35:54 pm »
So she was diagnosed with reflux (more details in the reflux thread) and started Zantac yesterday. But lately at the DF, she has only been taking 3 or 3.5 ounces (as opposed to her usual 5-6 in each bottle) - leading her to wake up a little after 2 starving. She just seems too sleepy at the DF to eat much. Any ideas?
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2005, 13:26:31 pm »
Hi!  :D
Zoe never took as much as the day bottles at the dreamfeed either.  I'm guessing she is still waking at 2 because of her age and needs those calories.  Would she take more during the day? Or have you tried clusterfeeding at all?  :D
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2005, 13:33:58 pm »
Hi Noelle! She might take more during day but I'm scared to really try because she's already taking quite a bit and has reflux and dont' want to make matters worse. She seems to resist cluster feeding too... Hmmm. Guess will just keep trying! Maybe will try to get her to even take 1/4 ounce more during day at each feeding (which I know she will eat happily). Do you think it would help at all do give her a bit less with the 7pm bottle so that she is hungrier by the DF?
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Noelle

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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2005, 13:46:46 pm »
With the reflux, is it bad for them to eat as much as they want? If it's ok, I would definitely give her more during the day if she'll take it.  :D

I wouldn't give her less at the 7 feeding as you want her to get the calories during the day to eventually eliminate the night feedings (including dreamfeed). 

If she takes just an ounce or two at a clusterfeeding...that's perfectly normal...it's just to tank them up  :D
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2005, 17:25:33 pm »
What about this? She currently takes 5-6 ounces during the day about 3.5 hours apart (sometimes closer to 4). Her first two naps are pretty good depending on how she is feeling that day reflux wise. But the last nap (after the bottle at 2:30 or 3pm) is tough - she generally only sleeps a little and then wakes and fusses, etc.

Instead of trying to have her take a 2-hour nap then, should I see if she will do a 45-min catnap, then wake her and give her 2 more ounces at 4:45 or 5 and then short activity time and then another catnap until 6:45 or 7 and then full dinner bottle? And then dreamfeed still at 10:30/11?
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2005, 00:55:16 am »
Hi ya...
i have a pretty good idea of your routine...but could you post your schedule....just want to take a closer look first  :D
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« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2005, 01:06:29 am »
Hi... I actually also posted this in the reflux section earlier... Having some trouble figuring it all out... But at least it seems like the Zantac (started yesterday morning) might be helping with her pain/discomfort.

We are currently on a 3.5-4 hour schedule. I know that is unusual and probably not ideal for her age - mainly because she likes to eat a lot at once (5-6 ounces) and gets upset if I try to give her less. She is bottle fed and on Alimentum.

I'd like it to be a more strict 3.5 hour schedule but she has been getting up earlier than ideal (really want her day to start at 7:30) so I need to stretch her out sometimes to get her dinner bottle back to about 6:30 or so. So here is our rough schedule:

7am: Eat 5.5-6 ounces (takes about 20 minutes)
Awake until about 8 or 8:15
Wind-down and then asleep about 8:30
Usually sleeps until 10:45 with some wakeups if reflux acting up

10:45: Eat 5.5 ounces (20-25 minutes)
Awake until about 12 or 12:15
Generally I have to wake her up at 2:30 (with some wake ups in between for reflux)

2:30: Eat 5.5 ounces

Here is the problem. She is done with this bottle by 3 and is happily awake for a while. But then she gets confused and doesn't know what to do with herself. I think she wants to nap but doesn't really need a long one after two such long naps earlier in the day. So she catnaps and gets really cranky by the time of her dinner at 6:30 and then eats (5.5-6 ounces) and is exhausted and bedtime by 7:30 or 7:45 at the latest. She is out of it for the Dream Feed at 10:30 and sometimes will only take 3 ounces or so and then wakes up around 2:30 starving again. Last night she ate 6 ounces at this time!

I think part of the problem may be that she should be on a 3-hour schedule instead so she doesn't have such long naps during the day. But then I would need to give her 4.5-5 ounces in each bottle instead of 5.5-6 so that she doesn't overeat and get herself sick. She tends to get frantic and gulp food (possibly to cool her throat from the acid).

Today after her 2:30 bottle she didn't really nap at all (other than one 15 minute nap in stroller) during that late afternoon time and was crazy upset and overtired . She is now asleep in crib (out cold, as usual once she reaches her bedtime) but only after getting crazed and screaming (while I held her) - which only makes the reflux worse.

Sorry this post is so long. Any suggestions? Move to a 3-hour schedule? Try cluster feeds in evening (which I did once but seemed to confuse her)? Let her nap in the swing if she wants during this time? It would be easier if she would make it later than 2:30 am - but since she takes so little at the dream feed and has such long naps, is that really likely anytime soon?

Thx again.
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2005, 02:21:24 am »
It really does like a good routine especially with the 3.5-4hr schedule  :wink: (if it works, don't fix it :D ) ...and the one waking isn't bad at all for her age.  :D

This is the only advice I have...if 7:30 is the ideal wake time, bedtime would be around 7:30 which you're doing  :D   This is what I would do from what I see.  If the afternoon bottle is at 2:30-3:00.  Her awake time seems to be about 1-1-/2 hours.  I would put her down at 4 or 4:30, give or take, for a 45 minute cat nap (wake her) That should give her enough nap time to make it through to bed time, and tired enough for bed.  If you can cluster feed that's great...probably right before the catnap.  If she only takes one or two ounces, that's OK...it's just to tank her up.  :D   I would have her last bottle be right before sleep...so around 7:00 and then off to bed, which would put her to sleep at around 7:30.  Just what I would try...let me know if you have any ???

more random thoughts...those long naps are perfectly fine :D
Right now there's seems to be a little bit of time between the last feed and bedtime...
Swing is fine for catnap...not just all of the catnaps to avoid a habit :wink:

 :D
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« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2005, 07:06:12 am »
Hi Noelle - that sounds like it could possibly work - but a few questions:

- if I give her a couple of ounces at 4:30 before trying a cat nap, i definitely need to do cat nap in swing or car seat stroller - she needs to be upright for a bit after a meal due to her reflux. is that OK?

- if I am waking her by 5:30, what am I doing with her until her last bottle? she tends to get very upset at this time of day and it will likely be hard to hold her off from eating without a lot of crying/yelling (which we are trying to minimize so as not to aggravate the reflux). I don't want to get into the routine of having a bath as part of her bedtime. For one thing, her skin gets too dry if bathed daily and also - if we are out wiht her I dont' want to have to bathe her at other peoples houses all the time.

- how do I work it so day starts at 7:30, which is ideal? for example, tonight she fell asleep for bedtime at 7:30, took 4.5 ounces at dream feed at 10:20 (in total sleep) and woke up at 2:15 starving and downed 5.5 ounces. But now she will never make it till 7:30 - probably waking up by 6:45 at the latest. So how do I adjust back to schedule?

Thanks again!
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2005, 07:08:07 am »
Also, the reason i have some time between last bottle and bedtime is again because of her reflux - can't lay her right down and she is excellent at putting herself to sleep for her bedtime - as long as she isn't too overtired. So if I feed her by 6:45, we can keep her upright until 7:15 and then change her and start her bedtime routine and have her asleep by 7:45
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2005, 08:33:35 am »
hope it's ok to butt in,  i think she sounds great - at 6.5 weeks she is taking a good amount of food and only waking once after DF.  even with the Df i think it is a lot to expect her to sleep through... and between 2-4am is a normal time for a feed at that age (many of us fed Df at 10-10:30 + a 1:30 + 4:30 feed).  my lo has taken a varied amount at DF for 7 mo. some nights as little as 3 oz and other nights 7 oz.  it really depends on so many factors in their day (most especially how much they took at the last feed or 2).  it does not mean the DF is not working, but rather all normal and par for the course.

sounds like apart from reflux she is doing great for 6.5 weeks (also 6 weeks and 12 weeks/3 mo are big growthspurts so she might even want 2 feeds after DF at some stage if she does not incraese her daytime intake)
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« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2005, 10:40:17 am »
Hi there - abnd yes, thanks for your response as well. She is definitely doing great apart from the reflux. She is 7 'weeks yesterday. Last night she inhaled 5.5 ounces at 2:15 am (even with a bigger dream feed ) and got up at 6:15 am demanding to eat again and just downed 5 more and would eat more.

My question is - how do I get her back to schedule when she eats so early like this? Just see if she'll take any more at 7:45 or 8 before her nap and then get her back to 11? Any ideas?
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2005, 11:18:27 am »
Update - giving her more food right now isn't going to work. She had a lot of spit up after the five ounces and I don't want to put more in her so soon and aggravate the reflux. She is half asleep right now in crib after waking up at 6 and eating at 6:15 (this is all EST).

Assuming she falls back asleep soon, how do I organize the day today? Maybe make the next bottle 3 hours apart (so at about 9) since she had a smaller one at 6ish? And then go 3.25 hours from there so that we are then at 12:15, 3:30 and then 6:45? If so, that would be one extra bottle than usual - should i put 5 ounces instead of 6 ounces in each?

I was supposed to be somewhere work related (I am a real estate broker) with her at 12:15 or so - normally she would have been sleeping after her 11:00am ish bottle at that time!

It's 7:40 am now and she just fell asleep (on own - she is so good!) in crib.
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2005, 15:06:01 pm »
No problem Deb - I agree  :D

Quote from: Marisa Mom
if I give her a couple of ounces at 4:30 before trying a cat nap, i definitely need to do cat nap in swing or car seat stroller - she needs to be upright for a bit after a meal due to her reflux. is that OK?
Ooops, yes that's quite ok.....what I had meant to say above is probably not a good idea for all naps, due to habit.  But in the end too, you have to do what is best health wise for her...do not feel bad at all about creating habits,etc.  This can all be fixed later on down the road too :D


Quote from: Marisa Mom
if I am waking her by 5:30, what am I doing with her until her last bottle? she tends to get very upset at this time of day and it will likely be hard to hold her off from eating without a lot of crying/yelling (which we are trying to minimize so as not to aggravate the reflux). I don't want to get into the routine of having a bath as part of her bedtime. For one thing, her skin gets too dry if bathed daily and also - if we are out wiht her I dont' want to have to bathe her at other peoples houses all the time.
If she catnaps until 5:30 and you wake her, is she still cranky? If so you could extend it a little later as well. If she is waking hungry..I would feed her, if even just a couple of ounces to get her to her last bottle,it would be a clusterfeed.  For a nighttime routine instead of a bath, how about lotion and a massage?

Quote from: Marisa Mom
how do I work it so day starts at 7:30, which is ideal? for example, tonight she fell asleep for bedtime at 7:30, took 4.5 ounces at dream feed at 10:20 (in total sleep) and woke up at 2:15 starving and downed 5.5 ounces. But now she will never make it till 7:30 - probably waking up by 6:45 at the latest. So how do I adjust back to schedule?

At this young of age...you just have to go with the flow when it comes to EASY.  There is a lot of tweaking and a lot of adjustments.  THe main things that EASY promotes besides a routine, which babies thrive on, is not feeding to sleep (prevents overfeeding/snacking)and helps you understand her needs and read her cues.  I know with John I obsessed a lot over "sticking to the schedule".  But I've learned that it doesn't have to be exact...just following the order of EAS (when tweaking it may become SASE or EAES at times).  So if she wakes between 6-6:30 which she probably will for a while, young babies usually don't make it the actual 12 hours, you just need to tweak a little bit.  If she feeds at 6:30, you would then feed her again in the 3-4 hour time.  Throughout the day, you can then let her sleep a little later instead of waking up, or try pushing the feed back 15 minutes if she's content.  As you do these throughout the day, you will get back more onto the routine.  It is not uncommon at all for the times to give or take 30 minutes.  Just remember EASY. I hope that makes sense..i'm sort of waffling here.


Quote from: Marisa Mom
Assuming she falls back asleep soon, how do I organize the day today? Maybe make the next bottle 3 hours apart (so at about 9) since she had a smaller one at 6ish? And then go 3.25 hours from there so that we are then at 12:15, 3:30 and then 6:45? If so, that would be one extra bottle than usual - should i put 5 ounces instead of 6 ounces in each?

I was supposed to be somewhere work related (I am a real estate broker) with her at 12:15 or so - normally she would have been sleeping after her 11:00am ish bottle at that time!

Exactly...this is the tweaking  :D   And it's all perfectly OK!!!!  I just tweak so it works, without ever letting her go hungry of course  :wink:
As far as ounces, feed as much as she'll take (or as much as she should for the reflux..again no experience, sorry!)  :D

Remember...relax...go with the flow...you are doing great.  She is still really, really young and it will fall into place much better as she gets older - enjoy her!!! I know you already do!!! :D  :D  :D
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« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2005, 15:22:30 pm »
Thx again Noelle.  The way we are handling today is that she went back to sleep at7:40 and I woke her at 9:15 and she ate 5 more ounces (and spit up a bunch) and then we had some activity time and went out in stroller and she fell asleep in there at 10:20. We are back home now - 11:20 and I guess I will let her nap in there until 12:40 and then will wake her again to eat - and then ideally eat again at 4:00 and dinner bottle at 7. So she ends up with an extra bottle and nap - but shorter naps i guess - we will see how that works out today.

I will try the bath thing on days we are home to get her to dinner bottle- she's not a fan of the massage so far. Any suggestions on ways to keep her skin from drying out from frequent baths? She has sensitive skin...

Definitely am enjoying her though!
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

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« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2005, 17:25:42 pm »
Quote from: Marisa Mom
Thx again Noelle. 

Any suggestions on ways to keep her skin from drying out from frequent baths? She has sensitive skin...


No problem!!!  A good friend of mine (kayna, she's a BW too) has a lot of experience with excema with her ds.  The newest/lastest thing for their skin is actually to bathe them but to make sure to put lotion on immediately afterwards so that the moisture is blocked in.  Or at least I think that is what she told me...I'll forward this post and have her respond.  Sounds like today is going well...keep us posted  :D
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« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2005, 18:21:55 pm »
I'll be curious to hear that about the sensitive skin, thanks.

day has been up and down - she woke up crying in crib at about 11:55 and couldn't calm down without me picking her up - she was obviously still very tired so put the sling on and let her sleep in there untill 12:50 and then fed her. She had a nice meal and decent activity time (minus terrible bowel movement) and not as much spit up. Unfortunately I think I missed her window by a bit (stupid phone rang) and instead of her usual fussing to sleep with bit of pacifier, she had a ton of fussing and needed more help. But I think she is asleep now (it is 2:20 EST) and if so will let her sleep until 4 or a bit after and then wake her to eat again. After that bottle will see if she will have some more activity time and then cat nap in swing from 5:30-6:30 and then have hair wash and then bottle and bedtime routine... we will see.
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Kayna

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« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2005, 19:08:56 pm »
Hi Marisa's mom, just wanted to give you a few more details on the sensitive skin issue. Ds has have excema since he was a baby and the research has evolved quite a bit in just a few short years.  :)

Like Noelle mentioned, the new information on dry skin is to actually bathe them daily now. There is a bit of a technique to it though. This is the info. we received form our allergist.

-luke warm water only
-no soap/bubbles unless really dirty(wash hair when needed)
-let child soak/play for at least 15 minutes (this allows the water to soak into the skin)
-pat dry with towel (no rubbing)
-immediately (within 3 minutes of exiting) apply a cream lotion (we use Cetaphil but you can use Eucerin or Vanicream as well).


This new method has worked wonders for ds skin. If he starts to have an outbreak (rarely these days, can't even remember the last one) we use the Cetaphil more often throughout the day. Sometimes that can mean up to 6 times but I have not had to use his prescribed meds. since we've started this either. :lol:

HTH. Let me know if you have any questions but please don't think that giving a daily bath will harm your little one's skin. You just need to do it a certain way. :wink:  Good luck!!!!
Kayna
Eric DH Married 5/1/99
Daikon Neil 8/14/01
Avery Rose 6/13/05


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« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2005, 19:46:51 pm »
Thank you Kanya, that sounds great! I will start doing that tomorrow (already had given her a bath this morning).
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01