Author Topic: I know this has probably been asked before but please help  (Read 1361 times)

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Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« on: September 27, 2005, 16:10:42 pm »
This is both a napping issue and sleeping through the night issue.

My son will be 3 months on Sept 30th.
Before about 6 weeks he would take really good naps (if not put down as soon as put down was awake) and eat every 3 hours.  He would wake up in the morning and be awake for 3 hours then sleep until 5:30 (with feeds in between) and then be awake for 3 hours and go to bed. He also started a one 4 hour stretch at night.   Then at around 9/10 weeks he started going 5.5 hours and sometimes 6 and once 7 hours.
But at around 6 weeks everything seemed to start changing and it slowly
has progressed to what it is today. (we also moved his bedtime up by 1/2 hour and he started taking to the swing and napping in the swing because that was the only place I could get him to sleep more then an 1/2 hour-hour).  One thing I know I did wrong was in the beginning when he had to eat every 3-4 hours at night I would pick him up as soon as he would stir (DH has to get up at5:30am to go to work and I didn't want to wake him).
Like I said it slowly came to this and I'm not sure how or what caused it.
This is his normal routine of what I can tell (he never sems to be consistent)

7:00 DH give him a bath
7:30 Feed
7:45 put down awake or groggy (if awake will fight and cry)
8:00 asleep (sooner if not fight)
12:00/12:30 Feed (he really seems hungry at this)
3:00/4:00 Feed (sometimes seems hungry other times doesn't)
6:30/6:45 wakes but still tired and cries if I don't nurse, so I do because he is suppose to eat at 7:00am
8:00 Wakes up and wants to eat
1-1/2 hours of play
goes down for nap (if in swing will wake up at 30-45 min but will stare and go back to sleep, if in play pen will toss head and then eyes will pop open and won't even take paci. but is still tired and crying)
If he sleeps the full 1.5-2 hour nap he will go 3-3.5 hours between feedings.

This is where things get bad.  He will be awake for 1-1/2 hours and then be put down but he cries and fights it and not even the swing makes him happy and holding him doesn't make him happy (he will calm down if bounced but as soon as stop he is at it again) when he does go to sleep he will only sleep for 30-45 min even in the swing and he wants to eat every 2-2.5 hours.  He then takes two 45 min naps, is awake 1- 1/2 hours between each nap and eats every 2.5 hours until 4:00/4:30 then he has another 45 min nap and gets a bath and then bed routine and will go the full 3 hours.

We tried the dream feeding but that didn't go over well.  He is already so used to being put down at that last feeding and doing his long stretch that he was up every 2-3 hours after the dream feeding.  Also we go to bed around 9:00pm so he has only been asleep for like an hour so it doesn't really work for us.

I'm sorry this is so long but we are struggling with everything it seems like. 
My question on this board is how many hours should he be going in his long stretch?  How do I get him past the waking up at 6:30/6:45 and go until his next feeding? And how do I get him to sleep longer at his long stretch.  I would really like to be able to get him to sleep at 8 or 8:30 and have him sleep until at least 2:30 so that he will have a feeding at 5:30 (I know time isn't suppose to matter but it would be som much easier with DH geting up then) and then wake at 8:30 to eat.

(posting on the napping forum too, SORRY!)
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

Offline sara_derek

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2005, 21:28:18 pm »
Hi there,

It sounds like you have a lot going on there...have you read Tracy's books?  If not, the third one, The Baby Whisperer Solves all Your Problems, would be a good place to start. 

What is going on is that your baby doesn't know how to put himself to sleep, so when he wakes early from a nap or during the night, he cries because he hasn't learned the skills necessary to fall back to sleep on his own.  Even though the the swing is helping right now, it really makes matters worse in the long run because he DEPENDS on that motion for sleep.  So what you need to do is teach him how to sleep without you or any other prop. 

Let me know if you've read any of the Baby Whisperer books, so I know how much you know about Tracy's methods, then I'll give you more specific advice.  I don't want to go over things you may already know :)

Thanks!
Canyon 12/27/02
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Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2005, 21:58:35 pm »
I have read one. I think it is the first one How to Calm, Connect, and Communicate With Your Baby."  He is a Touchy Baby on the verge of a Textbook baby.

He has really bad gas as well and gets congested easily.
The Ped. doesn't think that there is anything wrong and that it's just colic but I know better so I am changing Peds.

Today he went to sleep in his play pen for both naps but woke up at the 45min.  The first one was before I found this site and I put him in the swing and he fell back asleep in 15 min and slept for another 2 hours until a stopped the swing which wakes him up.  The second nap he woke up and I tried putting my hand on his head and comforting him back but he started to wake up and then he started crying and woke up completely.  He now thinks that when he wakes up he gets to eat and he only eats for 5 min so he is always hungry.  I left him in the play pen and he still cried and the paci wasn't even making him happy.  Finally after 30 min he started to calm down with the paci and started to fall asleep but then 5 min later he woke again and seemed really hungry (about time to eat anyway) so I got him up andfed him...which he only ate for 5 min.
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

Offline sara_derek

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2005, 03:37:40 am »
Ok, i'm a little confused by your last post, but I have a few suggestions.

It looks like according to your schedule, your son is not on EASY.  That is a key part of Baby Whispering and I would start by trying to get him on an Eat, Acticity, Sleep schedule.  Right now he is eating before he sleeps instead of after, which can become a prop.  Then after he is on EASY, you can start to work on independent sleep.  Since he is touchy, you'll have to be pretty careful with sleep training.  I've asked for some help from people with experience on touchy babies and hopefully they'll come through with some good advice.

Second, it seems for his age that he is up for WAY too long.  THree hours is much too long for a three month old.  Awake time should be anywhere between 45 minutes and 1.5 hours max.  Your baby is probably overtired and it's very hard for babies (especially touchy ones) to go to sleep and stay asleep when they are over tired.  I would watch his cues (first yawn, staring) and get him into his crib as soon as you see he is tired.

So what you can start doing right away is separate eating and sleeping with activity.  That will be a big enough job.  let me know how he does and I'll talk to you soon.
Canyon 12/27/02
Christian 7/4/05

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Offline Katet

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2005, 03:55:12 am »
Sara has given some great advice, I just wanted to add, some babies even at 3mo, can't stay awake for 1.5 hours & based on the information you have given, I would say your baby is very overtired, when you put him down for naps. I would start a good long wind-down of cuddles & stories when his awake time has been about an hour & then after 15mins try putting him down for a nap. Do you swaddle him as that will also help with sleeps in many babies.
I am a bit confused here  but you seem to be giving him his naps in the play pen... does he play there too? as you need to seperate play places from sleep places to help him learn where & when he sleeps.
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2005, 20:46:42 pm »
The reason that some days he eats right before a nap is because he is napping so weird.
I only keep him up for 1.5 hours at max but then he will only take 45 min naps.  By the end of the day his 3 hour feeds end up right before a nap.  He doesn't play in the play pen, that is where he sleeps at night.  We do not have room for a crib or the $$ for one so this is what we have to do.

I need to figure out how to get him to take longer naps before I can get him on the EASY.  I have tried but the only thing that works is letting him nap in the swing.

He went 6 hours between feedings last night!  That means he slept for 5.5 hours again!
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2005, 20:48:06 pm »
Katet,
I have a friend in CA that has two sons named Aiden and Liam!  One was born in 2002 and the other in 2004 (I think).
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2005, 12:08:42 pm »
Hi there:

I think it would be helpful to define your goals and then the moderators and others can offer you specific advice.   Examples would be:

-- establish baby on EASY
-- work on independent sleep

Let us know what you think is working for you and what you think you need help on.

It's common for babies to take 45 minute naps at this age.  Try reading Tracy's sleep interview at the top of the forum.  Also, I really recommend you buy her latest book.  There's a link at the top of the forums.  It's jam-packed with info on just what you're after.  She depicts how to work on independent sleep at various ages, how to transition to longer awake times, what to expect from your baby at different stages and a myriad of other things.  It's by far, her most hands-on, informitive book.  You'll just love it, I promise.

We'll check back to see if you've defined your goals and try to give some pointers. 

Bless.

Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2005, 23:14:00 pm »
Well I guess the two that I need to start with are these

---getting him to nap longer in the afternoon
(He goes to sleep really well on his own but he wakes up after 30-60 minutes.  If he is in the swing at his morning nap he will put himself back to sleep and sleep for another 1-1.5hours but in the afternoon having him in the swing doesn't even work until after 4pm) (like today he slept for approx. 2 hours at 8:30 but then had two 45min naps at 11 and 2.  Now he's asleep again at 4 and still asleep after an hour).

---getting him to eat every 3 hours all day
(he bobs off and on and pulls off crying and so won't eat for more then 10 minutes and that 10 minutes is off and on and then he's hungry in 1-2 hours)
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2005, 14:52:37 pm »
1.)  You need to be consistent in where he sleeps.  Working on independent sleep is a huge investment in time and energy.  If your baby is under three months you can do pat/shh in the crib with him swaddled.  If over three months, you can experiement with pu/pd.  This however, is too stimulating for a small baby.  You're son is likely dependent upon the swinging motion to fall asleep, hence shorter naps in his crib.

2.)  Do you think he's in pain?  Perhaps having reflux issues?  Check the reflux board for info.

Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2005, 14:54:39 pm »
He doesn't have a problem going to sleep its the staying asleep part that is the problem.  I can lay hi down in his crib and he will go right to sleep (sometimes he'll fuss and we'll need to pa/sh him, he has never enjoyed being swaddled, but he will go to sleep with in 5-10 min depending on how tired or how awake he is).  The problem is that if he is in his crib (during the day mostly) he will sleep for 30-45 minutes and then wake up.  And no matter what I do he will not go back to sleep.  I tried the patting and trying to put him back to sleep thing and it worked once, but all I did was give him the pacifier which I hate doing because I don't want him to sleep with it at night.  It has never worked again though.  I
I don't think it is the motion because he will NOT go to sleep in the carseat or stroller when we are out and he is tired.
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

Offline sara_derek

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I know this has probably been asked before but please help
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2005, 19:05:04 pm »
I would continue to let him fall asleep on his own in his crib.  I would let the swing go all together because it can make the crib sleep unsucsessful.  Like Laura mentioned, getting him used to sleeping in one place is important.  At the three month mark, babies are trying to work out their daytime sleep and can sometimes end up with only 45 minute naps.  I would go in a little before he normally wakes up during his naps and wait for him to stir.  then gently pat him and try to get him back to sleep.  I would do it every time with my oldest when he was a baby and eventually it started working.  Just be consistent - that's the golden rule around here.
Canyon 12/27/02
Christian 7/4/05

Angel#1 12/23/01
Angel #2 5/23/06
Angel #3 11/27/06