Author Topic: 3mos--major sleep issues--where do I start?  (Read 1315 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sunam

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2
  • Location:
3mos--major sleep issues--where do I start?
« on: October 04, 2005, 14:06:44 pm »
Okay, I guess the best way to do this is to tell you where we've been, what we are trying and maybe someone can point me in the right direction of where to go now.  This is incredibly long but if anyone can wade through it, I'd appreciate it!   I'll break it into day and night patterns b/c they may be separate issues

Daytime:
Prior to this weekend, my son has been nursing every 2 hours.  We nurse after naps and then have awake time.  His naps are never more than 45 minutes (there has been the occasional 1.5 and a couple of 3 hour naps but nothing I can count on) He never stays awake more than an hour before starting to yawn.  I have been trying to put him down as soon as I see any signs at all.  Because he is not down for more than an hour and up for more than an hour, in order to adhere to the EASY plan, I'm left nursing him every 2 hours.

Nighttime: 
Pretty much looks the same.  Prior to this weekend, we had resorted to co-sleeping for almost half the night because of sheer exhaustion.  He would go down for a couple of hours and then wake every hour, maybe 2 for the rest of the night.  He has had terrible issues with waking with what seems to be gas or pain before pooping all night long.  He just hated the whole process.

Here was our routine:
700 the day begins/nurse
800 nap (most consistently the longest nap of the day)
930 nurse/play
1030 nap
1115 nurse/play
1215 nap
100 nurse/play
200 nap
300 nurse/play
400 nap
445 nurse/play
515 nap
545 up--try to push it to 6 to nurse
600 nurse
700 bath and down by 730
1030 nurse
1130  nurse
130 nurse
400 nurse
530 nurse
700 back to the beginning


After 12 weeks of spending most of the night with him sleeping on my chest to relieve gas issues, I started putting him on his tummy for naps when I could watch him.  He had started lifting his chest off the floor during tummy time so I felt pretty safe and we had to try something.  He slept great!  Several reasons I think this works best for him:
1) gas
2) since birth he has had a strong need to suck.  He loses a pacifier on his back/side and I spend the night putting it back in when he wakes up.  At 12 weeks, he found his hand and prefers that to a pacifier. 
3) On his back, he can't relax.  Swaddling keeps him from getting to his hand and if I swaddle without his hands out, he can't relax and still has a bit of a problem keeping his hands by his mouth.  Once he drifts off, his hands fall and he wakes back up.

I tried him on his tummy in the Arms Reach by our bed one night and he slept for 4 hours for the first time since birth.  Both DH and I were uncomfortable, however, putting in his own room this way so up until this point, he is still in our room.  The problem with this is that DH gets up and is getting ready for work from 5-6 which disturbs DS's sleep and he tends to be restless at best until 7.  I would like to transition him to his crib so I tried his nap just now on his side in a positioner.  He seems to be sleeping just fine so that may be an option now (he hated it before).

This weekend, we started a form of CIO.  For a while, he had been so exhausted all day that everything made him cranky.  He was picky about which side he nursed on and wouldn't do any play time for more than 5 minutes.  He screamed in the car and was just plain fussy all day long.  After not being able to soothe him, play with him, nurse him, I finally just put him in the co-sleeper to just try and CIO.  In 20 minutes he was out for the soundest nap he had had in a couple of weeks.  It lasted about an hour.  I decided we might be on to something but wasn't sure of how to handle the specifics. 

That afternoon, we went to my parents' house for dinner.  We did CIO for the first nap there and he was down in 20 minutes and slept for about an hour.  An hour and a half later (6:30) he went down again and this time it took 45 minutes but he slept for 4 hours.  We ended up staying so he could sleep and went home afterwards where he went back down after 20 minutes and slept for an hour before waking.  We let him cry for 20 minutes when he slept for another 2 hours followed by a night nursing where  he went right back down until 7.    The next day he did really well.  Up for an hour and down for a nap with only about 10 minutes of fussing and took an hour nap each time.  He did this all day until about 5 pm where we just took a dive. 

700 bath/bedtime
730-800 cried
8-830 slept
830-900 screamed relentlessly--DH caved and got him
900 nursed and was wide awake
1000 put him to sleep
200 nurse and right back down
500 nurse and right back down
730 up for the day (I thought) but fell asleep nursing
845 back up for the day (I thought) but fell asleep nursing again
1045 finally up for the day

We spent the rest of the day up for 45 minutes, down for an hour but crying for the second half of the nap. By the end of the day he was exhausted because he really hadn't slept much.  In fact, after each nap, he was still pretty tired and struggled to make it 45 minutes between naps.  Last night, we did bath earlier and was down for the night at 7.

I thought I'd try to 'dream feed' at 10 since he went down too early (I maybe shouldn't have tried something new but am grasping at straws at this point!)  He nursed and went back down fairly easily but was back up in 3hours so we ended up being up at 10, 1, 4 and then he was up at 530 again.  I wasn't sure what to do with this one so I put him to sleep and laid him down.  He was back up at 630 where I left him to see if he would go back.  He would fuss for a few minutes, sleep for a few for about 4 cycles before 7 when I finally got him up.

I kept him up until 830 and put him down very drowsy and on his side in his crib (hoping to transition him to his room in a safer position)

So that's where we are now.  He has been asleep for half an hour so far and I hear him fussing now  :? .  One difference I have seen so far is that he is sleeping for longer stretches at night, although I'd love to see them a bit longer but he may not be ready for that yet.  Another difference is that what I thought was gas irritability seems to have vanished.  He now poops and toots with no fussing at all.  :wink:

If you managed to make it through all of that and it made any sense to you, I'd love any guidance you can provide.  I feel like I've been guessing and would love a plan that I can feel confident will work with some kind of a time line that I might see some progress. 

What do I do and where do I go from here??
Rachel

Offline Aarismom

  • BW Devotee
  • ****
  • Showing Appreciation 13
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 443
  • Location: Fayetteville, PA
3mos--major sleep issues--where do I start?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2005, 17:17:26 pm »
Ok, first of all you'll want to know that we do not promote/support CIO in any form on this site. Granted, there are some moms on this site that have tried it and it has worked for them (I'm one of them, admittedly-although I've used a combo and now exclusively use the BW method when my lo wakes too early from naps and has trouble going to sleep) with no problems. However, all methods used on this site revolve around an attachment style of parenting, and many moms here are very strong supporters of non-CIO methods.

That said, let's work on your day :)

First of all, you'll want to develop some kind of routine. Most babies seem to thrive on that...they like to know what comes next. If you haven't already, create a nap-time routine (it doesn't have to be involved) and a bedtime routine (this one can be involved). Give yourself at least 15 mins before naps to wind down.

It looks like your bedtime is actually between 6:30 and 7 pm. You'll probably want to start bathtime around 6, and have the routine completed between then.  The reason he slept for 4 hours at once is because he was starting his nightime sleep pattern...of this I'm pretty certain.

Nursing wise, to follow EASY, you'll want to have him eating every 3 hours. He's old enough that he should be able to wait that long...maybe a little longer. Because of the short napping, he may be following the routine of EASAEAS. This is perfectly fine, the EASY plan is pretty flexible.

It looks like you have him up for about an hour before putting him down. Now may be the time to extend waking time to closer to 1.5 hours (maybe an hour and 15 or 20). Do it in 15 min incraments...it may take a week or so.

As for the CIO issue...first of all, what you need to figure out is what is him actually "crying out" to you, and him having fussiness and mantra cries in order to get to sleep. With crying out the tone of his volume and pitch tends to raise, and it sounds more like an "I need you NOW!" cry. A mantra cry is more of a steady whaaa...whaaa....whaaa... sound, and doesn't raise in volume or pitch. Sometimes there's coughing. We don't go in during the mantra cry, but we do get in there immediately if it sounds frantic. Babies usually take a full 20 mins to settle and go to sleep.

Let's make a typical plan up and work toward it.

W/E: 7 am
A: 7-8:00
S: 8:00-9:30 or 10
E: 10:00
A: 9:30-10:45
S: 10:45-12:15 or 12:45
E: 1
A: 12:45-2
S (catnap) 2-3
E: 3
A: 3-4:15
S: (maybe another catnap) 4:15-5
E: Cluster at 5:00
A: 5-6
Bedtime routine at 6 (including a feeding)
Bed between 6:30 and 7
Dreamfeed at 10:30-11.
Maybe 1 extra feeding sometime during the night if necessary, soothing back to sleep every other time using WTS, pat/shh and/or PU/PD.

Now this is ultimately what the "perfect" plan might look like for your lo...but by no means should you expect to get it right away or expect it to eventually fall into that sort of schedule perfectly! Sleep training can take a good week. The idea is to be flexible and above all consistant...if your lo wakes after 45 mins, 1 hour and 15 mins later (or however long he needs to be awake) put him down for his next nap. Do low-key, soothing activities, and make his wind down extra soothing. You're starting into a period where day sleep is developing...lots of 45 min naps are normal until it works itself out. Watch sleepy signs, not the clock, but use the clock as a guide. If you put him to bed too early, you'll get 40 min naps. Too late, and you'll get the same, as I'm sure you know. Play with it...you know he needs to be up a little more than an hour right now (probably). Also, don't get too upset if he takes short naps...he can sense your anger and frustration, and it will make things worse, trust me. They are amazingly sensitive little things!

BTW...I put my lo down on her tummy as well. It does seem to help her sleep better, but I'd rather she be sleeping on her side.

Hope you can find something in this that helps!!

*HUGS*
Sonya =P


Texbook/Angel LO
April 26, 2005

Offline Sunam

  • New & Learning The Ropes!
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2
  • Location:
3mos--major sleep issues--where do I start?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2005, 17:58:15 pm »
This is very helpful.  I'd much rather not do CIO and for the most part, he has been doing mantra crying.  What I do know is that strictly demand feeding isn't working anymore so I have to find something better!  Today, I partially swaddled him and put him in a positioner on his side and his second nap was fussing for less than 5 and solid sleep for an hour and a half!  I'm going to see how I can work towards what you mentioned and stick with it.  I think he's starting to get it.  Signs its working:

he's no longer a fussy eater (used to refuse the left)
he IS putting himself to sleep
he IS having better nights

Thanks so much and I'm thrilled to have some things to try!

Rachel

Offline finleyfoo

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 30
  • Location:
3 Month Old Not Sleeping
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2005, 19:35:20 pm »
Rachel,
If it helps, I was in your boat about 2 months ago. My son is now 20 weeks old. I also demand fed at the beginning but around 10-12 weeks decided to start increasing the interval to 2.5 hours then to 3 hours, where we are now. My son also napped terribly and he only slept a stretch of 3-4 hours at night and after that got up constantly. Two months later, he still isn't perfect and we still have some night waking issues, but he has improved somewhat and I think some of it has to do with maturity. Some of it is just plain waiting it out.

Good luck.