Author Topic: am I doing this all right  (Read 2187 times)

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Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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« on: October 05, 2005, 21:17:14 pm »
I have been putting Jency in his play pen (where he sleeps) for his morning nap and his afternoon nap.  He has only been sleeping for the 30 min range.  The morning nap he woke up crying and I knew he needed more sleep but the pat/shsh didn't work he then popped his eyes open and kept crying.  I could not get him to go back.
What am I suppose to do in this situation?  Do I leave the room and let him cry for awhile or do I keep trying to pat/shsh him until his next feeding time?
At his afternoon nap he woke up completely wide eyed and happy and kept going up on his elbows to look around (tummy sleeper).

Because these naps have been so short is it okay if for his next nap I let him nap in the swing to make up for those lost hours?
I'm afraid if I try to put him in the play pen he will again only sleep for a half hour and then loose all the sleep and not sleep well tonight and then the same thing tomorrow and then just be a horrible cycle. (he has been waking up 5-6 times and night and barely sleeps between 6am-8am, then gets up crying because he is still tired).

What do you think I should be doing?
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

Offline Mariek

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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2005, 21:39:08 pm »
Hi Hun

The first thing you need to do is this...... take a deep breath, let it out nice and slow... and relax!! I've noticed some of your other posts around the site and you seem to be pretty stressed out. So just take it easy for a minute.

Now I'm going to let you into the best kept secret of Motherhood (us Mummy's keep this well guarded so you have to promise not to tell anyone  :wink: ) and here it is..... When we first start out, none of us have all the answers! When we have our first babies, we're all winging it the best we can. There it is. The secrets out. :)

What we do have is access to a lot of combined knowledge and the experiences of the Mummies that have gone before us - which is what this site is for.

Now I've said that I'll also tell you that as long as your baby is fed, safe, warm and happy then you're doing a great job. The first few months with a new baby is a real life change, all of a sudden you have responsibility for this whole other person who's completely dependant on you and it can be scary (God knows it scared the crap out of me  :D  ).

Right, on to your question........which I'm going to answer with some questions (frustrating I know but it helps to get a better picture)...

What kind of schedule is your LO on? Are you following the EASY plan? Where does your LO sleep overnight - does he nap in the same place as he sleeps overnight?

If you give us some more information then we can give you some advice.

HTHs - and remember to relax, you're doing just fine!

love
Marie



Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2005, 21:58:35 pm »
Thanks.  I have really been trying to stay calm and relax a little but sometimes it just over whelms me.  I feel like I get a handle on things and then it just falls apart when he won't go back to sleep.

We try to do the EASY but because of him only napping for 30min it gets all off track.  I try to feed him every 3 hours and his awake time is from 1.5-1.75 depending on the time of day and his mood.  He gets fed at around 6:30/7 no matter what and then a bath, massage, pjs, and then I feed him again around 7:30/8:00 and then he goes down in his play pen (where he sleeps) around 8/8:30.  We put him down wide awake and that is when he fights the most if he is groggy he goes down a lot easier.  Is it okay to grog him up first?  He takes a nap in his play pen as well but sometimes I have him nap in the swing in the afternoon if he hasn't been napping well at the beginning of the day.  He doesn't sleep well in the morning hours (after 1am) and so around 7:30/8:00 he will wake up (sometimes happy some times with his eyes closed and crying).

I think that answers all of your questions.

Thanks again!
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

Offline Mariek

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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2005, 22:15:41 pm »
Hi again

If you're going for a 3 hour EASY at 3 months old you're probably looking at something like (this is in Tracy's book pg 34):

Eat: 7.00 wake up and feed

Activity: 7.30 or 7.45 (depending on how long feed takes)

Sleep: 8.30 (1.5 hour nap)

You: What ever you need to get done - like catching up on some ZZZs :)

Eat: 10.00am

Activity: 10.30 or 10.45am

Sleep: 11.30 (1.5 hour nap)

You Time

EAT: 1.00pm

Activity: 1.30 or 1.45pm

Sleep: 2.30 (1.5 hour nap)

You Time

Eat: 4.00pm

Sleep: 5.00 or 6.00 (catnap - about 40mins to see through feed and bath)
Eat: 7.00pm (cluster feed at 7.00 and 9.00 if going through growth spurt)

Activity: Bath

Sleep : 7.30 Bedtime

You: A free evening!

Eat: 10.00pm or 11.00 pm Dreamfeed

Sleep: 7.30pm


With regards the napping - make sure you have a sufficent wind down time (low lights, soft voice, not hurried) and also make sure you're catching his sleepy signs in time. Do you know what kind of baby he is? Angel/textbook/grumpy/spirited/touchy? There's a quiz at the front of the BW book to find this out (I have this in a word document if you don't have the book) - that's going to affect how he reacts to things and also how you should deal with things. If he's persistantly having 30/45 minute naps there's an announcement on this forum about Tracy's tips on getting past 45 minute naps. I'd also be consistent with where you put him to sleep (try to keep naps to his crib/play pen so he makes the association).

If you get him into a good schedule this will hopefully help to even out the naps.

HTH

love
Marie



Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2005, 22:45:52 pm »
He is a touchy baby.  I try to do a wind down and a routine but I just haven't found anything that clicks with us.  As soon as I walk into the bedroom he starts fussing because he knows I am going to put him to bed.  I have been trying to get him to nap in his play pen all the time and I usually put him there for naps.  But like today he only took 2 half hour naps in there so I am letting him take a 3 hour nap in the swing right now to catch up on nap time.  Do you think it would have been better to have put him in the play pen again and risked him only getting another half hour of sleep?  Once DH is home Jency doesn't like to take a nap unless he is exauhsted. Which he usually gets home between 5 and 6pm because of this we try to make his routine a little later.  And we doing do the dream feed because we go to bed a half hour after him so I would have to wake up for it :? .
This is the routine we are shooting for if we can ever get there.  But you know as soon as I get his naps down he will be needing to change his routine again.  I am trying to go for a 3.5 EASY because he seems to only eat for 5-10 min and be done for another 3 hours.

E: 8:00am Up and Eat
A: 8:15am
S:10:00-11:30
Y: House Work

E: 11:30am
A: 11:45am
S:1:30-3:00
Y: Nap

E: 3:00pm
A: 3:15pm
S: 5:00-5:30/6:00 (When ever DH gets home)
Y: Dinner and internet

E: 6:00pm
A: 6:15pm
Bath at 7:30
E: 8:00pm
S: 8:30 Bedtime
Y: half hour to an hour with DH

E: 1:00am
E: 4:30am

If he would sleep from 10pm to 5:30am (DH gets up at 5:30am for work, part of the reason we go to bed so early because of all the night wakings)I would do his 3.5 last feed at 6:30pm and do the 10pm DF instead of the 6pm and 8pm.

I don't know I'm so cunfused on how  to get him to take longer naps in the play pen and sleep through the night.  I hate to let him cry like that.
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

Offline thitz

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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2005, 00:01:22 am »
Hi Adria,

I started EASY around the 3 month mark.  And my lo went from sleeping almost exclusively in a snugli on daddy to every nap in the crib.  It took about 5 days for her to really realize that the crib is the place to sleep.

You've got to be consistent or your baby will be confused.  Stick with one place to sleep at least for a couple weeks.  If you put him in the swing in the afternoon all your pat/shushing in the morning will be wasted because you're re-teaching him that he should sleep in the swing. 

I had to pat/sh sometimes for 40 mins a session and my arm felt like it was going to fall off but my persistence really paid off.  It's so nice to have 1.5hrs of time to yourself to read a book. 

Don't leave him to cry it out, keep pt/shushing.  And you can also pick him up if he's really crying to settle him a bit and then put him down and start patting again.  It will take a few days and he'll catch on and then you'll both be well rested!

Oh, another thing I thought of, does he sleep okay in the playpen at night?  If he doesn't I'm wondering if he has reflux and this could be why he sleeps better in the swing.

Good Luck, Tarri


Offline Mariek

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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2005, 08:51:38 am »
Hi Adria

I'm a little confused about something. Where does he sleep overnight? Does he sleep in his playpen in his room or does he have a crib/cot? As Tarri has said it's easier to get them into good sleeping habits if they sleep in the same place for naps and overnight. If he sleeps in his playpen overnight then put him in there for naps, if he sleeps in a crib overnight then put him in there for naps.

With regards the wind down, this is particularly important for Touchy babies and it's important to start early before the sleepy signs kick in and you're past the point of no return. If he's bothered by his bedroom then one of Tracy's suggestions is to let them spend some awake time playing in their crib so they get used to it and don't see it as the "big bad".

You mentioned he doesn't nap after your DH comes home? I assume this is because DH wants to spend some time with him? (and rightfully so). If your DH gets home between 5pm and 6pm could you try putting him down for a cat nap at 5pm (for 45 mins) then your DH will have time to clean up, sit down, have a cuppa and when your LO wakes up he'll be refreshed so the time he spends with his Daddy will be quality time. You could get DH to do bathtime and bottle (most Dad's love to do this).

With regards the dreamfeed and you having to wake up for it. You have to get the OZs into your LO at some point throughout the 24 hour period. Would it not be better to wake up under your own stream at 10.30 to feed him if that means he'll go for a longer period throughout the night and you won't have the 4am feed? Personally I'd much rather do that.

For the 30 minute napping issue. You need to be consistent with your use of Pat/Shhh. If you are then you shouldn't have to listen to him cry. When he wakes from his nap (or just before you know he will wake). This is from the Pat/Shh technique thread which show give you some idea about how to go about this:

Swaddle the baby snugly and make sure the room is as dark as you can get it. Lay the baby on his side so you have access to the back. You can use a wedge or a rolled up towel to prop him up.

Patting and shushing is done with a firm pat in the center of the back (like a tick-tock rhythm) and a long, repeated shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh past (not into) the ear. Loudly, like a faucet. Not fast.

Generally you do the patting/shushing in the crib. Though if he cries, you can pick him up, patting and shushing him over your shoulder, until he's completely calm. Then lay him down and keep patting and shushing. (Put a hand on his chest, or if the room isn't very dark, shield his eyes from visual stimulation.) Try it in the crib but if he wont settle you can pick him up. Keep patting and shushing in the crib for 7 - 10 minutes after he's completely settled and zoning out. Eventually stop shushing. If he cries, shush again while patting and pick up if necessary. Eventually you will get to the point where you are patting and shushing, and he's zoning out and settled in the crib. Then you slow down the patting and shushing, then stop shushing, and keep patting until baby goes to sleep. Stay with him until he's in stage three - deeper into sleep, totally let go, no eye movements. Past the "jolt." You may or may not need to be patting still at this point. Some babies will need the patting, some will need the hand on the chest or just your presence. This is the age where they still need you to guide them into sleep, and this is how you do it without accidental parenting.

The key is not to stop just because baby has calmed down, keep it up. And stay with him, don't leave, until he's melted into the crib!


If you haven't already looked at it then you should take a look at Deb's post about her interview with Tracy on 45 min naps:

http://www.babywhisperer.com/forum/how-tracy-helped-josie-and-her-family-get-past-45-min-naps-vt649.html

This will probably help with some of your issues.

love
Marie



Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2005, 14:43:43 pm »
Tarri,
Thanks for the encouragement.   

I am just wondering about how you pat/sh for 40 minutes.  By the time I have done that it has been 3 hours since his last feeding and he starts getting hungry.  Then I don't know if he's crying to be fed or crying because of the sleeping thing.  And what I mean by letting him cry is not CIO.  He will wake up and cry and the the other day I pat/sh for 30 min and the whole time he cried ( I even tried picking him up and calming him but he kept crying). 

Marie,
He does sleep in his play pen at night.  So is it okay if he only gets 1.5 hours of nap time all together.  That's my question.  If I put him in the play pen for all his naps thats what it will end up being.  I'm afraid of that.
The reason he doesn't nap after DH gets home is because he won't nap not because we don't let him.  I guess he knows daddy means play time.  I usually try to put him down between 3 and 4 depending on how much nap time he got the rest of the day.  Like yesturday he only get one hour before 2pm so I put him in the swing and he took a 2.5 hour nap before DH got home.  DH does bathe him but he does npt give him a bottle because Jency has decided to refuse the bottle.

It seemed that when I fed him the DF he woke up every 3 hours after instead of sleeping his long stretch.

Is this suppose to happen:  Ever since we started doing the pat/sh thing for going to sleep he thinks that every time he wakes up after 2am he needs to be patted back to sleep, and that is every hour.  Last night he slept from 8pm to 11pm to feed and then to 2pm to feed then he was up ever hour from then on out and only ate at the 5am one.  Every time I had to pat him back down but he would only stay down for an hour. 

He is such a pill!
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

Offline thitz

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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2005, 18:51:44 pm »
Hi Adrian,

I would pick your lo up if he's crying and then lay him back down after he's calmed right down (it might take a couple minutes), and then do the patting.  I found that Emily liked the patting but not the shushing.

After I got Emily to sleep, which sometimes took 40mins if she woke up early I would start patting again until we were within 15mins of the next eat cycle.  I knew she wasn't starving at this point because she wasn't crying non-stop, she'd stop if I picked her up.  Where if she was starving she wouldn't stop crying even if I picked her up.

Remember to keep the nap place consistent, don't give in to the swing.  Also is the playpen mattress comfortable enough?

Good Luck, Tarri


Offline Matthew's Mommy

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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2005, 18:51:04 pm »
Hi there,

Can I jump in?

I'm just going to address his night sleep, since you are getting tons of wonderful support for his day sleep.

Learning to sleep for the whole duration of the night is a process, and what he is doing is typical for a 3 month old. The first part of the night, is very deep, with long stretches.. the second part of the night (after 12 am) tends to become lighter as the night progresses, with many partial awakenings at the end of each sleep cycle. What he is doing, is partially awakening every sleep cycle, after 2 am.. many 3 month olds will do this.  It's one of things that time and maturity will fix.

When Brendan went through this, I made myself a little bed on the floor of his room. I went to my bed early. When he started the waking every hour after 2 am, I would pat him back down, and the lie down in my make shift bed. When he stirred at the next wakening, I placed my hand on his back and held it there.  When he appeared to return to sleep, then I rested.. again, at the next stir, I would place my hand.

The first night is exhausting, so set it up that you can get support the following day.. ask a friend or family member to come by the next day so you can get some rest.  I found it took about 3 nights, and he improved greatly.

Adria, you are on the learning curve of parenthood. Relax, and remember he's a 3 month old baby who will change and grow and mature.

I'm just wondering, what type of support do  you have right now?  Are you seeing a doctor, lactation consultant (if you are breastfeeding), have family?  I want to make sure you have a good support system. Becoming a new parent can be such a life-altering experience..I know how anxious and overwhelmed I felt with both of my boys!
Jane
Whispering since 2001
Matthew July 27th, 2001
Brendan October 21st, 2004

Offline ~Jency's*Momma~

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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2005, 14:50:08 pm »
Thanks,
This weekend we took a trip and kind screwed everything up.  He Hates being in the car and would only take his 30 min naps and that was it.  So every 1.5 hours he took a 30min nap and was back up crying for another 1.5 hours.  The trip is usually 6 hours but took us 7.5 hours.  Plus the passes hurt his ears and he had a dirty diaper coming that hadn't come yet.  It was aweful.  We got to GJ at 9:00pm so he didn't go to bed until 10 but then he only got up at 2 and 5 and then awake at 8.  It was great.  But then sunday night he was down at 8:00pm again and was awake every 2.5 hours.  Then last night we didn't get home again until 9:00 so he was down tobed at 10pm again but only got up at 2:45 and 6:45 and then up for the day at 8am.  Maybe he needs less nap time or a later bedtime or something.  I don't know.  We let him nap in the swing while we were there so I knew he would get a good nap (lots of people coming over to see him ALL day).  But this week we only have one place to go which is the Dr. on Wed. morning.  Then my mom is coming wednesday night and staying until sunday morning.  Hopefully we can get some improvement.

I do not have much support here.  My family lives 300 miles away and my DH family isn't much help.  I don't have any friends here but I just started going to MOPS.  I have seen a lactation consultant and shereally thinks that there is something wrong...either reflux or allergy.  So she gave me a journal to keep and give to the Dr.
Hopefully he will find something to help us!
~Adria, wife to Paul 9/7/02
Momma to Jency 6/30/05 & Tesher 12/31/08

Offline AnnieSnuggles

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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2005, 17:50:32 pm »
Hi, I notice that your baby's awake time is 2 - 2.5 hour long.  That is pretty long for a 3 month old.  My son is about that age and he can only stay up for 1.5 hours from the time he wakes up.  He then starts to fuss and whine like he is trying to tell me to put him down for a nap. 

Maybe your baby is overstimulated and becomes harder to put down.

I am a new mom too and I know how it feels to be alone with not much help.  Hang in there, each day gets better.

I tried the pat/ssh and it is just not for me.  I got more stressed out doing that and worrying about his naps.  I love this forum because there is wonderful information.  I think sometimes we get too caught up to trying to do make our babies into these perfect babies that we stress ourselves out. 

For me, I decided to put my son in a sling and he naps so much longer than the 30 mins otherwise.  I am happy because I don't have to stress out everyday trying to get him to extend his naps.   He wakes up much happier too. 

Do what you feel is right for you and remember they will grow up so fast and try to enjoy them now.

Offline Matthew's Mommy

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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2005, 19:22:11 pm »
I'm glad to hear that you have support from a lactation consultant.. trust her instincts, she has seen many many infants and she can identify infants who need more support ie. reflux, digestion issues, and allergies.  Seeing a doctor would be an excellent idea.

Are you in Canada?  Sounds like you had the Thanksgiving weekend!  If you're in Canada, let's see if we can hook you up with more support.. see what services you have in your area.

Send me a pm with your location, okay?
Jane
Whispering since 2001
Matthew July 27th, 2001
Brendan October 21st, 2004