Author Topic: Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!  (Read 2398 times)

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Offline loopyloo80

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« on: September 09, 2005, 20:49:58 pm »
Argh please help, my DS is just over 5 months, he is fully breastfed and he is weaning onto solids he is having 2 meals a day lunch and dinner and has pudding usually too, he feeds about 5-6 times a day from me, 8am 10.30ish 1ish 3ish 5 ish and 7ish when he goes to bed though some days he misses the 10 or 1 feeds as we are busy and he has lunch etc.

However he wakes at night about 4 times on average though can be 6 times, usually around 10 / 1 / 4 and 6.30..

last night he woke at 10 12 2 4 5.30 and 7!

I am shattared, i try giving him his dummy most times to see if it is hunger or just comfort and sometimes it works most times it doesnt
I cant let him cry and am stuck on what to do next

anyone any advice

PLEASE

L xx

Offline NKmommy

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2005, 17:39:36 pm »
Hi!  Sorry that things are so rough right now.  At 5 mos, your little one can be on a 4 hour EASY.  It seems that right now, he is eating every 2 or 2 1/2 hrs.  Since he is used to snacking during the day, that probably is causing the night wakings.  Ideally, he should bf every 4 hrs, with his two solid meals and breakfast and lunch.  For example,

7 - BF
8 - Solids
9 - Nap
11 - BF
12 - Solids
1 - Nap
3 - BF
5 - Catnap
7 - BF, and to bed
10 or 11 - Dreamfeed

I know, easier said than done!  (I've soooo been there)  But if you are able to tweak your daytime feedings to more of a 4 hr schedule, the night wakings should work themselves out.  Hope things get a bit better for you, and you get some rest!  :wink:
Sheila
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Offline Katet

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2005, 07:36:08 am »
From my experience with ds #1, too many feeds in the day = more night waking.

Yes Sheila is right your lo needs to be on a 4hour easy or at least 3.5hours as he is snack feeding & not getting enough to carry him through the night. Her routine for the day is pretty much what you would expect a 5mo who is sleeping through the night to be having... it is actually fairly close to what my 3.5mo does, except no solids & a 5am feed, not a df... yes he mostly sleeps from 7.30 - 5am & has only 4 day feeds, far cry from my first.

Also on that routine, I imagine he is having a lot of short naps in the day, which will add to the problem of night waking.
The solids actually may also be adding to the problem as they can cause upset tummies in young babies
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline loopyloo80

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2005, 12:11:41 pm »
Thanks for replying, I started him on Breakfast today (as well as lunch and dinner) so 3 meals + puddings the piglet..!

So he fed from me at 7am (then back to sleep for an hour) had brekkie at 9am, slept 10-11 Fed at 11 (from me) then we had lunch at 12.45, he has just fallen asleep again 1pm.. so am planning on feeding him myslef at 2.30.. he doesnt have dinner though till 6, so you think he can go this long, maybe a snack? or should I feed him again (from me!)?

he will get his bedtime feed at 7.15 ish so my afternoons are long.

Thanks for replying
Lorraine and Freddie x

Offline loopyloo80

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2005, 12:28:28 pm »
Sorry Just wanted to add that I cant get him into EASY, he can only really stay awake for 2 hours - 3 at a real push but he gets grumpy.. so he is more Like EASASY!  Sometimes its only 1.5 hrs

His naps I cant increase either, the morning one is an hour, all others are half hour naps, so today he is napping at 1 - 1.30 wake (ish) 2.30 ish I will feed him 3.15 nap 3.45 wake 5.15 nap 6 dinner 7 bath 7.15 feed..

I need to get him to wake up earlier though and the day works out a bbit better, but today i was lazy and bought him to bed with me at 7 rather than getting up! OOPS

L

Offline Katet

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2005, 23:28:11 pm »
Lorraine,

Firstly I know it is all pretty stressful & tiring to have a waking baby, trust me I've been there & I can help you BUT it might seem ilogical, but it works & don't cut yourself up on what you have been doing so far, but like me learn for next time!!!

I don't think the time he starts the day is all that important at this stage.
I can see a few problems, but the 2 main ones, which are causing all the night waking in my mind are feeding too often & short naps

Now I don't agree with solids before 6months old unless your baby is over 9kg (20lb) I know from experience (my first was that weight at 5mo) breast milk was enough, so in my mind, your solids are actually not helping the cause & also as you space them out from the bf, they may also be making the problem worse.

As far as feeds go. I think Sheila's routine is right fot your lo's age & the solids should ONLY be offered in the same hour as the bf... so if you bf at 7am, then you should have finished solids by 8am, same at 11, bf & solids all over by 12. Yes he will probably take less solids, but that is good, because he will take better bf & that actually is what you want.

I think what you are doing at the moment is confusing tiredness for hunger & snack feeding your lo & He has learnt to satisfy his needs by feeding/eating...not good for later life

Now all this is fixable... but I won't say it is easy.

Your next problem is the naps... to be honest here, you probably won't get him sleeping through the night unless you fix the short naps & I suggest looking on the naps board - there are some great announcements of how people sorted out short naps. basically babies need to learn 2 sleeping skills... falling asleep & going back to sleep from the light sleep cycle & the lack of the second skill is why your lo doesn't give you long sleeps

2 other questions, that I forgot to ask & will help me, help you... what do you do for a "winddown" before naps & how does your ds fall asleep at the beginning of a nap/night time?

Oh & awake time shouldn't be more than 2-2.5 hours otherwise he will be over tired & over stimulated
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Offline loopyloo80

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2005, 12:33:01 pm »
Hi Kate
thanks for replying.

I will look on the naps board but however much I try he wont sleep longer his morning nap is an hour but bery rare for him to sleep longer but I will look over there anyway.

As for when he has his naps, its very rare besides the first one of the morning that we are in the house, for that one, we come upstairs I get him dressed for the day then he goes on my bed, usually with his play mat which he stares in the mirror for abut 2 minutes then falls asleep.
For his other naps, its when we are out so in the car, or in his pushchair or at my mums or a firends house, as soon as I notice he is tired I put him down or sometimes he just falls asleep. I dont really do staying in. At night he has tv (bad mum) then bath then change then feed, then he takes his dummy then usually asleep in a few mins.

He is very rarely fed to sleep though it does happen on occassion if he is grumpy or overtired and cant get himself off.

Ill try doing the eating closer together,  i didnt get this message till after his lunch today so ill try that tomorrow, I am doing the eating times according to the times the nursery will feed him once I am back to work though,.

As for breastfeeding its always on demand, always has been. but its usually an hour or so before his solids, I am not keen on not letting him have a bf if he wants one though i think thats cruel. so what should i do if he is crying for food and its only been two hours for example

thanks
lorraine

Offline Maddy's Mum

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2005, 01:00:14 am »
Hi there - I think you have gotten some great advice so far and I just wanted to add that when we implemented a dreamfeed with Mads it worked well in tanking her up and getting more calories into her, thus aiding nightime sleep. This in combination with a 4 hour EASY routine during the day will mean that bubba is well fed and you can tackle sleep issues in the knowledge that he has a full belly!

I have also just read a part in the latest BW book which may help - as your situation sounds very similar to the case study - Tracy gives the example of a 5 month old in the book who was also snacking throughout the night because she didn't know how to self soothe or get herself off to sleep.

So she suggested getting Dad on board to do PU/PD when she woke in the night and not feeding until 5am (So last feed, the dreamfeed was at 10.30ish and then next feeding 5am) at which point she took a good feed instead of snacking because she was hungry. Now, you know your baby best and the little one in this case study was a little bit older than your little one, so I would urge you to pick a time that you feel comfortable with and stick with that and use PU/PD until that time. Because you are bf it will be much easier on DD if you are able to get your partner on board to do PU/PD during the night as DD will not then get confused and upset because you are witholding the breast.

At 5 months PU/PD can be done most effectively in the following ways: If DS is burrowing his head into the mattress or turning his head from one side to the other, don't pick him up right away - reassure him with your voice in a low reassuring tone. When you do pick him up - hold him for only 2 or 3 minutes and put him down even if he is still crying then pick him up again and follow the same pattern. See if he can settle himself on his own for a few moments and perhaps lapse into the matra cry - lay him on his back and hold his little hands whilst talking to him.

HTH!

Dee
x



Offline Katet

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2005, 04:31:43 am »
does his dummy fall out before he drifts off to sleep, or stay in his mouth for ages afterwards, then fall out???

It may also be he is used to sucking himself to sleep & when he goes through a light sleep phase, he wakes up because it isn't in his mouth...I didn't realise that he went to sleep with a dummy. does he use it for all sleeps & resettling after night feeds?
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Offline loopyloo80

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2005, 08:08:46 am »
HI thanks again both of you

Unfortunately Dad and I have split up. more his choice than mine but regardless he is gone so am all alone, which is why I do find it hard to go in at night and not feed as he immediatly smells my milk if i try to resettle
so I end up feeding.

As for Dummy, he is getting addicted, he has it for most naps unless he falls asleep in car or something and a lot of the time othr than that, i tried not to give it to him but as he is now starting to crawl he commando crawls to his dummy if he can see it, or moans so much that i end up giving it to him no amount of distraction works.

I was planning on weaning him off it at 6 months as thats when they lose the need to suck isnt it?

As for falling out when he is aslep, it depends, sometimes it come out as soon as he is asleep others especially when he sleeps on his front (his choice!) it stays in as he is face down (slightly to the side) yes he does wake up sometimes when it has come out!

Thanks!

Lorraine x

Offline Katet

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2005, 00:29:18 am »
Lorraine

How are you going. Sorry it has been a few days since I got back, just wanted to think things through a bit.

Sorry to hear you are doing it alone, it makes it hard (I had 2 months where my dh was sick/hospital & that taught me lots about how hard it is)

few things... with the feeding on demand, I don't know if you realise, but given the amount of solids your lo is taking & bf, the demand you are feeding is not for calories or nutrients, but it is an emotional one... you and your lo have learnt to satisfy any sort of need with you offering the breast. This is not a bad thing, but it will mean that unless you change things your little Freddie will keep waking at night for months if not years, which is why it is the only thing that re-settles him.

Also re the dummy there is actually no set age that babies toddlers "need to suck" But by 6months most babies need a lot of effort to wean them off it & I can tell you my 2yo still has the need to suck it is an emotional thing with him & started when my dh was sick & I needed to give him the dummy & there is a whole long story attached.

I think if you think he is getting addicted to it, now is the time to wean, not at 6mo.

Finally I know what it is like to not "do staying at home well" but unfortunately the lack of consistencey & routine in your lo's life is not helping getting him to sleep better at night, as I think it is making him over tired.

When he starts at nursery, is it 5 days or less?, at what age? Because that has the potential to make things worse or better as it will result in a very good structure to his days, but it may cause overstimulation, separation anxieity & even less nap time. Oh & is he to be offered a bottle/sippy cup of expressed milk at nursery?

I'd like to help you through this, as I know how hard it is & I have been there (my worst night was 10 wakeings & 2 hours sleep & I went to work the next day!) BUT It is not going to be easy & I might suggest you start inviting people to your place, so you can have some support & get him used to his cot & sleep.

I feel like I just keep telling you all the things that are wrong... But let me tell you, it is so obvious you love your lo & that is fantastic & getting him to sleep well (despite the crying it will probably involve) will make him happier too!!
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Offline loopyloo80

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2005, 19:04:31 pm »
Hi Kate

Thanks for getting back to me, I kept checking for replies then only today realised there was a page 2! DOH!!

ANyway, I have added a bit more structure to our day, and he is not on pretty much a 4 hour feeding routine for his breast feeds. Starting from when he wakes up

I also introduced a bottle of EBM for when he first wakes in the night and lo and behold he slept for 6 hours!!!

We stayed in for 3 days pretty much to get this going only going out when he was getting a bit clingy rooting for boob and it hadnt been 4 hours so to distract him we went out! All sleeps were in his cot and most were longer than before 45 mons rather than half hour and morning one increased to 1 1/2 hrs rather than an hour!

Today he woke up really late 8.30am fed then had breakfast at about 9.15. The then slept from 10.30 till 12, at which point I woke him up as we were going out for lunch, he had a BF at 12 then his lunch at 1 when we got out.
He then slept from 2.30 till 3.10 he fed at 4pm.. Then had his dinner.

however today after his bath (and yesterday) he refused his bedtime breastfeed at  7pm.. Yesterday he managed to sleep till 11 pm without it though! So will see what today brings. I have only managed to express about 2 1/2 oz so will let him feed from me for a few mins before giving him the bottle as I dont think that the  2 1/2 is much!!

Unfortunately (well fortunately in other ways!) we are going on holiday to spain on Sunday, so I am not holding out much hope of his "routine" sticking whilst we are there for 2 weeks but I will try but with going out to eat most evenings when he would normally be in bed might be hard on him. Will have to see how he copes

After we return I have 3 weeks before I go back to work. I will try hard for the 1st week back to reset his routine.

I will have him 3 days a week sat/sun/mon, he will be at nursery 2 days tuesday and weds then SIL will be having him thurs and my mum friday. I know nursery will try to stick to my routine for him and I am adjusting my meal times to coincide with theirs. I have asked mum and SIL to feed when I ask too

Yes I will be trying to express when back at work though I have tried today and only got a measly amount but I suppose practise makes perfect! He will be having that through a bottle, though if I cant express enough he will have formula in the day for his 11am 3pm feeds then I can feed him morning 6.45am before i leave for train! and 7pm bed (if he takes it!)

Anyway I have rambled, LOL

I want to thank you for your advice and I will try hard to get the routine back and going when I get back off holiday.. Any tips for that?

Lorraine

Offline Katet

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2005, 03:38:09 am »
Sorry I never got back to you before you went away. i ended up in hospital for 3 days with Liam & even now 3 weeks later, we are still not back into our previous good routine. Both boys suffered from the experience & so I haven't had as much free time as before.

Hope things are going ok
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Offline loopyloo80

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Help 5 months wakes for feeds up to 6 times!
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2005, 09:42:49 am »
Hi Kate

Poor you and your boys I hope Liam is on the mend now!

Things are Ok. Holiday is now over and today is our first day back at home all day. I have 3 days at home now with no real plans so am going to work on this. Unfortunately the next few weeks before I go back to work are a bit busy with Nursery settling in days etc so these 3 days are all I have to get started!! Fingers crossed for me

I have managed to drop him to 3 Breastfeeds a day now, which is good as means I only need to express 1 at work but some days he still demands another which is hard going

I have decided to offer water at night now too, as nothing else seems to be working regardless of how spaced out his daytime feeds are on holiday they were at least 4 hours yet he still woke 3+ times a night! yesterday he went from 7.30am feed till 4pm feed (obviously with breakfast and lunch in between) yet he still woke at 10.30 3 and 6.20 last night! Oh and at 1 but he didnt want feeding then.

I popped him in cot thismorning at first eye rub yet I still received a crying fit that lsted 20 minutes! He used to go down within seconds before we went away I guess its the change !

To top it off we are moving house in 2 and a half week too, now dount this will disrupt us once again it seems to be a never ending circle!

L x