don't know what else to try! heeeellllllllppppppppp....

[chickadeebesty]

hi... i've posted two other times, and thought i had our problems solved- everyone was so much help- but my ds keeps regressing!

i started EASY two months ago after reading two of tracy's books (and sobbed when i found this website and realized that she had passed away).  my ds is now 7 months old.  his A time is about 2.5-3 hours (depending on time of day), and he wakes around 7am each morning.  we've recently dropped the catnap because it was getting so close to his bedtime (7:30-8 pm) so he's having two good naps of about 1hr15-2hrs each.

he is quite spirited, can pull-up, and started crawling two weeks ago.  he is also eating solids: rice cereal and fruit 2X a day, and fruit and veg 2X a day.  he is bf  (hope all of this is enough info!!!).

the problem is constant night-waking.  after putting him to bed around 7:30pm with a consistant wind down routine, he has recently been waking around 11pm, 2:00am, and 6am.  we HAD reached the point where he WAS sleeping through until 7am, with an 11pm dreamfeed.  my pediatrician said that i needed to stop the dreamfeed....(?)

i don't know what to do!  my dh and i were fussing at each other at 2am this morning because i had been trying to get ds back to sleep (with shush/pat.  pu/pd doesn't work for him, gets him even more agitated) for over 1 hour.  my dh is a doctor and is studying for oral boards, so is on edge and already is not getting much sleep.  so in the middle of the night, he is saying, "what happens if we just let him cry?"  i am on the verge of tears thinking that if we just let him scream he won't trust us, he'll make himself throw up, he'll be hoarse.......  i need to get this sorted out because my dh's study schedule will be getting more and more intense as winter kicks in, and my ds doesn't settle as easily for me (he just wants food when i go in to resettle him).

anyone know what i should try?  i thought that he'd be able to sleep longer by now, especially using the bw approach............ aaarrrrgggghhhh!

thanks, in advance, for helping (and for reading this loooooooong post!).

betsy

[cindy_30]

Does he wake up at the exact same time?  And did you stop the dreamfeed all at once?  Or did you gradually move the time back?  Instead of 11:00, it would be 10:30, then 10:00 and so on.  And did you increase his daily intake?  You'll have to make up for the dreamfeed.  I know when my DS went through this, I went in as soon as I heard him stir (but not awake) and put my hand on him, I didn't make any sounds because it would wake him.  Once I felt his body relax, I left.  I had to do this 3 nights in a row, but it did work.  I wouldn't feed him in the night, it will be a habit that you'll have to break.

[chickadeebesty]

well, to answer your questions:
*  i didn't stop the dreamfeed (i have been feeding him at his 11 pm waking) i trusted the bw'ers more than medicine...
*  his wakings are random.  some nights he will sleep until 5 or so... the waking has become worse recently, but there hasn't been a distinct pattern.
*  usually when i go in he is sitting up and screaming, not just crying.  i physically put him down and he fights like a madman.   if i put my hand on him, he pushes it off and screams louder.  my husband can settle him faster, but it still takes a firm pat on the back and a loud shushing. ( i also haven't been feeding him during the night, only if he wakes after 5:30am with hunger cries.)

in your post you mentioned that you went in as soon as you heard your lo stirring.  i've been waiting because i thought that i should give him time to settle himself-  should i go in earlier? 
do i keep up the dreamfeed?  do i feed after 5:30am?
thanks again...

[cindy_30]

You mentioned that he was waking at 11 for his dreamfeed, that could mean that he's waiting to be fed at the next waking also.  What about gradually moving the dreamfeed up and try to wean him off it.  He's getting to the point where he is eating enough during the day to keep him going through the night.  When you're doing the dreamfeed, try not to wake him too much, if he doesn't drink a lot, that's not a problem.

And when I heard my ds stirring in his crib.  I meant that he was still asleep, but he started moving around a lot and would soon waken.  Then I would fly into his room and see if I could settle him back down.  But I wouldn't recommend talking to him or making eye contact.

[chickadeebesty]

phew.  i keep trying everything suggested, reading other people's posts, etc.  but nothing seems to be working.  my lo is waking at 11ish for a dream feed, then from 1:30-3:00 am.  this waking is very painful for all three of us... me, lo, and dh.  we're finding my ds sitting up in his crib screaming bloody murder- for an entire hour and a half the past few nights.   out of desperation, i got into the crib with him to try to settle him last night.  but no matter what i did he would not stop screaming.

my friend, a baby nurse, suggested that i give him some motrin before bed, and supplement it with tylenol in the early am, as he might be teething.  i've done that for two nights (a stretch for me because i don't like to give him medicine) but it has not seemed to help.

after getting into his crib with him last night and spending almost 45 minutes trying to settle him (dh had already spent 45 minutes shush patting and pu/pd... every time he lifted his hands off ds back, ds would wake fully and pop to his knees with his head up) i finally nursed him, and that calmed him enough to sleep until morning.  i didn't want to do it and start more bad habits, but i was at wit's end.

what do i do?  we are all so sleep deprived.  luckily this hasn't affected naps, yet... but we are starting to dread nights.  how do i remedy this??

[M&M'sMom]

I don't know if this falls under the baby whisperer code or not... but my girls wake at 5-530 every 2-3 days ( after a few nights of going straight through)... I decided that it was just to close to morning feed that I could no longer give them a full bottle at that time. Now dh and I will go in and give them 2 oz. They are a little mad when they realize that there is only a little bit of milk there for them, but we calm them (this takes 30 sec.) and lay them in the crib, say "we love you girls" and shut the door... you can hear them talking and making noise for about 15 min because I think they  "think" they are ready to wake up then!!!

I know giving them a little bit at 5-530  gets them through to the morning (7-730ish) and I find they are still hungry enough in the AM to eat a full bottle. Both of my babes are teething, and they have been for two months continuously!!! I am hoping once the teeth come in that they will setting back to going to 7 pm- 7 am.

Just another note, I know that tylenol and motrin work different for every child.... I find mortin really gets the girls worked up- they wont sleep when they have it, so I only use it during the day. (just a tip???)

HTH

Jody

[chickadeebesty]

thanks for the suggestions- i didn't give motrin last night, but my dh and i had a babysitter, and that threw things off again!  the babysitter called at 10:50, and said, "he just won't stop screaming..."  i rushed home and he was the most worked up that i've ever seen him.  it took three hours to get him breathing without the post-cry "gulp."  (don't know what else to call that horrible sound!)
i am feeling like i am back at square one, so i think i am just going to have to start sleep training all over again.  i just don't understand what has gone wrong, because we've been incredibly consistent.  if anyone has any other ideas, i am more than willing to try them!

[Luisasmum]

Hi Betsy. I know what you are going through and it's really hard on everyone but hang in there. My dd used to wake every three or four hours at night and I was a wreck. My husband can sleep through a nuclear holocaust so he was fine! I had also tried all the methods for getting her to sleep through but after failing dismally, I came to the conclusion that she was definitely hungry as she was having her version of a full feed every time she woke up. In the end I just accepted the fact that I was going to have to get up every three or four hours and that was that :roll:.

The turning point for us was at 9 months when dd got a blocked nose and went on a nursing strike, so I decided to stop breastfeeding (well, I guess she really decided that!). After about a week on formula, she started sleeping through the night :shock: . She has never been a big drinker (6 mins on the breast max!) so I guess my breastmilk wasn't enough, despite having started solids.

Soooooo, I don't know what you views are on formula, but maybe you could try giving your son a bottle of formula for his last feed and even do a dream feed with it as well for a while and see how you go.

Anyway, hope this helps and good luck with everything - and to DH too!

Let us know how all three of you go!

[notenoughshelfspace]

I was going to suggest that he might be not getting enough calories during the day; mine started waking up during the night after she had been sleeping through and I realised it was because she was hungery. SHe would not take anymore during her normal feeds so I started makeing up a little bottle for her 3-4oz before her naps and she took it. Over a course of a day that is an extra 7-8 oz of milk a day. That got us sleeping through againl; ofcoursenow we areteething and are copmpletely off. Great!

[chickadeebesty]

thank you, thank you, thank you!  (both of you).  i will try to add some formula this afternoon and see it that helps- you know, if it even helps a little it is better than where we are right now!!!
i'll let  you know how it goes......

[chickadeebesty]

update!!!:
we tried the formula in the evening.  that was interesting, as he won't suck on the bottle.  i had to put it into the sippy cup and he proceeded to wash himself with it... but, i digress!
i think it must be another problem entirely.  i noticed ds tugging on his ear yesterday, then last night he was up every hour.  i called and got an appointment with his pediatrician this afternoon thinking it may be an ear infection.  he doesn't have any other symptoms (no fever, etc.) besides the ear pulling, and- oh yeah - the incessant screaming at night........
we'll see what the doctor says.  i'll post when we get home!

[chickadeebesty]

well, the doctor said that ds was perfectly healthy, and the night wakings were probably due to sep. anxiety or teething...
last night was more of the same:
bed at 7:30, df at 10:00, up at 12:30, 1:10, 1:30-2:30 (i broke down and fed him that time) and 6:15.  i bf him then and he relaxed for 45 minutes before we got him out of bed at 7am.  ((he did basically the same thing the night before as well))

i was thinking that i might sleep in his room tonight beside his crib and try to settle him as soon as i hear him stir.  what do you guys think?
the problem with that, of course, is him smelling yummy mommy milk all night and wanting to eat.  has anybody tried this?  do you think it might work?  if not, what else?

i have also dropped the catnap and gone to two naps recently.  does anyone think that i should reintroduce the catnap?  maybe he is too tired at bedtime?

thanks again for the help and support!

[Paulsmama]

Just a thought and I may be way off base, but could he have an upset stomach from solids?  I only offer this because we've been going through nightwakings with our 7 mo DS starting just after 6 mos when we introduced solids.  We had the whole rolling over/scooting around the crib thing, but what makes me suggest the discomfort is the screaming.  DS has a very distinct gas pain scream and we were getting a lot of that in the night.  We slowed down solids and backed up his last solids meal to 4:30 and it's much improved now.  I've noticed that DS's gas pains are usually about 6 hours after he ate the offending food -- we still have some screaming around 10 pm and sometimes around 5 am if he trapped gas during his dreamfeed.  He quiets down pretty easily now though.  Also, drinking his bottle always seems to help him pass gas so maybe that's why nursing calms him??  OK, just an idea.

[chickadeebesty]

thanks cynthia... that is a very good point.  do you cluster feed after 4:30 pm?/supplement formula?/rice cereal?

[Paulsmama]

DS gets a bottle at 3:30, solids at 4:30, (catnap) bottle at 7:00, bed 7:30/8 and a dreamfeed bottle at 11:00.  I was hoping to start dropping the DF since he's been having more solids, but he's started taking MORE at his DF the past few days.
I noticed an improvement in DS's sleeping a few days ago when I started adding gas drops to his 4:30 solids.

[zayandme]

cynthia beat me to it- how is his poop? has he been spitting up? Does he get formula or something with dairy in it? Sounds like a possible upset tummy to me.

[Katet]

Reading this post My thought was seperation anxiety & possibly a late 6mo growth spurt.
With ds#1 around 7mo I used to have a mattress on the floor in his room if he woke up more than once a night I would sleep in there with him. after about 2 weeks of doing that the night wakings stopped for awhile (until he got sick - another story)
Aiden also had lots of tummy upsets in the early days of solids as he loved them & kept eating. Once I cut him back to smaller amounts he did fine, some babies intestines just don't mature as fast as others

[chickadeebesty]

gosh, i just saw your replies...
things are much better.  i went back to very simple solids (sweet potatoes, rice cereal, and applesauce, basically) because he got a stomach virus, and wouldn't you know it, the night-wakings almost stopped!  now he's up around 12 and 5, and i dream feed both times.  i think you ALL were exactly right... tummy aches and sep. anx.!!!

my dh and i have also been a lot less hands-on when we go in to check on him.  we have been giving him 5 minutes (to cry, fuss, talk, etc.) and then go in a verbally soothe him or rub his back for about 2 minutes.  then leave, and only go back in 5 more minutes if he is still upset.   so far, we've only needed to go in once before he settles.  (he's also finally learned to sit by himself after pulling up- which used to be a big problem!)

thank you so much for replying.  i am absolutely addicted to this site, and have found so many posts soooooo helpful!

betsy