2.5mo old and short naps

[ittybiddy]

Hi! I just joined the board today although I have been a lurker in the past. I have read Tracy's books and refer to them on an almost daily basis. Here is my problem...
My ds (12wks) doesn't seem to be able to nap for more than 30-45 min in his crib. It has been this way almost since he was born. He does great at night, thankfully. But during the day he consistently wakes after only 30-45min. When he wakes up he is usually still tired. I can't get him to go back to sleep in his crib. If he really needs the sleep I put him into the swing where he will often sleep for another hour or even two! I hate to use a prop, but sometimes he needs his sleep so badly that I feel it is the wise thing to do.
For the beginning of the nap I've finally found that perfect time when I can put him down, and he goes to sleep without any crying all by himself. It's wonderful! So I don't think my problem is related to how long he has been awake. I know he is going down at just the right time, and since he goes down so well I don't think he is overstimulated.
I have read everything about 3-5mo babies with short naps, but I think my situation is a little different as this has been a problem since the beginning. Has anyone else experienced this? I know that daytime sleep does not organize itself until 12-16 weeks. So I am hoping for improvement soon, but I would like to know if there is anything I can to to help. I have thought about going in to help him through "the jolt", but I don't know if that is what is happening. And it varies from 30-45 min. It's not consistent.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Beth

[Meg's Mom]

Hi Beth and welcome to a wonderful place for support.

I have thought about going in to help him through "the jolt", but I don't know if that is what is happening.

It would probably be helpful to know what is happening when he sleeps in his crib.  Can you observe his naps for a day or two w/o him seeing you?

I have read lots of moms who had the short naps from the beginning but my LO started at 12wks so i can't really comment from direct experience there.  But we also used the swing as a prop and the motion does help them stay asleep.  Sometimes you just need to get them to sleep, i have been there!

Maybe you can post your schedule and we can see if we can help or come up w/ some ideas.

I'll check back.

[MCGoldsmith]

Hi Beth...
I'm new today also...   am having the exact problem with my 14 week old. He hasn't wanted to nap for more than an hour. When you say that you have "finally" found the perfect time to put him down, I am with you on that one, too. I seemed to either put Grayton down too soon or miss my window for weeks. I'm wondering also what the  deal is bc he sleeps good through the night. I'm just always unsure of what to do bc he seems very rested and happy upon waking. But then after feeding I wonder if I should add on his previous wake time  ?

[ittybiddy]

Michelle,
Thanks for the welcome!
In order for me to observe his naps I would have to stand over his crib as he sleeps. Do you mean I should try this?
Here is a rough picture of our routine. It seems to change everyday as he wakes at a different time every morning. But this should give you an idea of what our days are like.

Wakes at 6:00am like clockwork, but he is usually not hungry. He is very awake and happy, but I usually need more sleep! If I put him in his swing he will go back to sleep pretty quickly and sleep until 9:30 - 10:00.
10:00 Eat (takes 30 min or so total)
10:30 Activity (winding down to quiet play or just holding him by the end of the 30min)
11:00-11:15 Put to bed. He usually goes right to sleep or cries for just a few min before settling down. He does best with no shush-pat. If I stay by his crib he just wants to socialize. I've tried shielding his view of me, but that didn't seem to work. He is happiest when left alone to go to sleep by himself.
11:30-12:00 Wakes up. If he is grumpy and obviously still tired I put him in the swing. If he is happy I will get him up. Trouble is that leaves a lot of time to occupy him before he is due to eat. Which in turn makes it harder to get activity time after eating. Sometimes it's hard for him to be up that long. That really gets us off track for the rest of the day. So I try as much as possible to get him back to sleep.
1:00 - 7:00 Repeat above
7:00-8:00 Eat- depending on how close to the 3hr schedule he was all day. Sometimes it is more like 3 1/2hrs.
Then quiet activity, maybe a bath, and to bed between 8:00 and 9:00. If he goes to bed earlier than 9:00 he usually wakes for another quick feeding before I go to sleep. Usually he will go for a 12hr stretch between feeds at night with only one feeding in the middle of that 12hrs. The time varies from night to night.

I hope that gives you somewhat of an idea what our day is like. I would say he is between a textbook and a spirited baby. He is very happy and only cries when hungry or overtired. He is generally very easy... If it were not for our sleep issues he would definitely be an angel baby! He eats very well and is gaining consistently. The dr is very pleased with his weight gain. He went from 25th percentile at birth to 50th percentile as of last week.

Thank you. I really appreciate your help!
Beth

[Meg's Mom]

Beth

Yes, I would recommend you watch a nap or two and see does he jolt awake or do his hands wake him, etc.  Make yourself comfy w/ a chair  :wink: .

Re: your schedule...does he wake at 6am and go back down again at 11am?

[ittybiddy]

He wakes at 6:00 goes right back to sleep and wakes again around 9:30. He goes back to bed at 11:00.
I guess I will have to try watching naps. I know it's worth the time to improve his sleep. It's just hard taking what little time I have free to clean the house! I know living with a little more mess won't hurt us
Thanks!

[Jenni Gall]

Dear Beth,

I see you are frustrated with sleep.  Getting aquainted with having a baby... adjusting to something new in your life which takes allllll your devoted time is really a big adjustment.  I was wondering if you are breast feeding?      There are also things I want you to check out.   What color is the poo-poo? Is there spitting up?  Is there a rash around his mouth?  Is there diahrea?  Is there cradle cap?  Are there dark circles around his eyes?  Does he cry when laying on his back?  Does noise bother him?   Does he seem to have some nose drainage?      I am thinking he is dairy intolerant no matter how you feed him.  Report anything you might notice with him.  I would also like to know the pitch of his cries.  Has the napping been getting worse as time goes through the day?  I am a certified birth doula and lactation educator... I read books and attend every baby education coarse I can.  I work with a midwife and she is wonderfully full of knowledge.  Let me know what you think, I hope I can help you out.

Mommy of DD 8 , DS 5 , and DS 2.

[Tonya]

Hi Beth!

I'm not much help on the sleep issues, but I did want to just interject quickly that personally, I do not see anything in your posts that would indicate an allergy.

I've dealt quite extensively with allergies (personally and in ds) as well as with reflux, and it doesn't appear that you are struggling with those issues.

Just didn't want you to worry!!  Of course, I am NOT a doctor, and if there is something going on that we don't know about through your posts, please do go see your doctor!! :lol:

Good luck!!!

[Meg's Mom]

Beth

Once we see what is happening during his nap we can try to come up w. a plan together.

I totally agree that "Getting aquainted with having a baby... adjusting to something new in your life which takes allllll your devoted time is really a big adjustment." as posted.

I don't think there is an allergy issue from what you posted so far.  Allergies are not my area and i was interested to read what to look for if that was the problem.

What your LO is doing is farily normal w/ young infants who are learning sleep.  From 0-3 months babies work on organizing their night sleep. From 3-6 they work on organizing their day sleep.  But some have a problem w. moving from one sleep cycle to the next from the on-set.  There are specific partial awakenings in an infants sleep cycle-- 10 min., 20 min and 40 min. mark. It sounds like he is having trouble with the awakenings and/or transitions from one cycle to the next.  Which is why i was starting w/ the observation of his naps.

Just one or two sessions of not cleaning so house won't fall to pieces  :wink:  :wink:

[Tammy: Ethan & Kaden's Mom]

Beth,
I am by no means an expert when it comes to napping issues.  However, when my ds was your son's age, we had an issue with our routine that I created.  Ds would wake up early, around 6 or so.  I would bring him to bed with me to get a little more sleep.  Well, ds would sleep until 9 or 10 most times!  Then the naps the rest of the day were always 45 minutes.  I finally figured out that he was sleeping way too late in the morning for him to even properly get tired enough to sleep more than 45 minutes!

Ds would still wake at 6, and sometimes I would still bring him to bed, but only until 7 or so, then we would get up.  If I had to wake him up, then I did.  I also started putting him to bed earlier, I think around 8 pm at his age.  I also started a dreamfeed around 10 pm. 

Again, I'm no expert!!  Just my thoughts from reading about your schedule.

Good luck!

[ittybiddy]

Jenni, no signs of anything unusual. I do bf. That is going very well. Pumpkin colored poop most of the time although sometimes it's greenish. It's been pretty consistent since the beginning. Diahrea? How do you tell with an infant? His bm's have been very liquidy most of the time since the meconium passed. No cradle cap, undereye circles, rash, no drainaige. He's only spit up a sizeable amount twice since he was born. And the other times have only been a tiny little dribble. The pitch of his cries is mild, sort of sad sounding. Not like his painful cries at all. His tired cry is quite distinct. He does not arch is back or move in any unusual way. He has always been a back sleeper and seems quite content and comfortable in that position.
The naps sometimes seem to improve as the day goes on. We actually had a couple of really good long naps on Saturday.
I was wondering if he was sleeping too late in the mornings, but it's been so good for me to finally catch up on my cumulative sleep loss that I've not wanted to get up earlier.
I think I am going to try watching him while he naps and getting up earlier every day. I will let you all know when I have more info.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Beth

[Meg's Mom]

Excellent observations beth!  You really know your LO  :lol:

Glad to hear things are improving slightly, look forward to hear more soon.

[Jenni Gall]

Hi Beth,

Sorry to scare you about allergies if I did.  I didn't mean it to be that way.  I was just typing quick since it was late.
    I agree with the other mom who said he is sleeping too much in the morning.  It is hard to adjust to another person's sleep habit... especially when you are use to sleeping in.  It gets you ready for the days of school... When you have to get up early.  If he is getting 12 hours of sleep at night.... you should be doing fine.  Go to bed. 
   Here is a example of a good routine.  6:30 am  feed
                                                          8 - 10 am nap
                                                          10 am feed
                                                          11:30 - 1:00 nap
                                                          1:00 pm feed
                                                           2 - 4 pm  nap
                                                           4:00 pm feed
                                                           6 pm small nap
                                                            7:30  bath time
                                                            8:00 pm last feed for bed

    *  by this time, baby should be getting about 20-25 oz. in a day. 
    *  nap time can vary a bit within 15 to 30 minutes on noon nap
    *  baby needs about 18 hours of sleep total
                                     
Jenni

[Jenni Gall]

Ah Beth, just read further in the messages and caught the greenish poop.  That is usually a sign of lactose overload.  Not saying it is a dairy intolerance, but a lactose overload of your letdown.  Do you have a strong let down?  Does he go long periods between feedings?  This is the problem I think.  Since he is sleeping really well through the night, your milk is getting concentrated in the morning.  He might be getting a belly ache.  If you are going to the 4 hour mark between feedings, you might want to try feeding closer to 3 hours between.  And through the night, I am all for night feeding.... sorry, but it is for my breast comfort and my babies belly comfort.  My babies never slept through the night till breast feeding was done and they never had nap problems.  So that is a personal choice.... I believe in La Leche League beliefs.  And if you do have a pump, pump that morning milk and feed it in a bottle.  I tell that to moms of over supply issues.  It helps until they can handle the let down better.  Your milk is increasing in supply right now, so it will just get to be more.  It tops off oround 6 months or so.  The pumped milk can be mixed so the lactose is more evenly distributed.   Just some info.    Not to be taken in any hurtful way.   

Jenni