Author Topic: Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)  (Read 6628 times)

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Offline Petunia

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Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)
« on: October 27, 2005, 18:16:50 pm »
TIA for reading this.  TIA for any help.

Ok, I've learned in parenting that the devil is in the details, because usually something you think just 'doesn't matter' is the key to it all.  In view of that, this is going to be somewhat long because I have NO IDEA what is going on or how to solve it.

I am open to any and all suggestions and ideas, no matter how remote the possibility.

Background: Almost three months ago when I found BW (for babies) I instituted a bedtime routine for naps and bed and used PD/patt for the first couple of days when he would cry, like he had always done, before sleeping.  I watched in amazement as my son started falling asleep every time with minimal help and no crying.

The Problem: My 16 1/2 month old son is now throwing tantrums at every nap and bedtime.  He throws a tantrum as we start and continue his wind-down routine.  He throws a tantrum when we put him in the crib.  He throws a tantrum when we try to pat him or otherwise soothe him in his crib.  He throws a tantrum when I try to rock him to soothe him.  He throws a tantrum when we leave the room.  He is one perpetually unhappy kid about sleep.  He still sleeps just fine once he finally goes, but it's getting him there that is alluding me.

I cannot soothe him out of his tantrums.  After all my attempts at quieting him down have failed, I have tried leaving the room once he's in the crib and he starts a tantrum.  But I don't know if that's the right thing to do.  Staying in the room seems to egg him on, so I thought leaving might be the answer.  But it doesn't seem to be helping any more than anything else I try.  When he starts to sound like he is crying not screaming angrily, I try to go back in and soothe him.  More tantrums as described above result.  Because he won't let me soothe him with a pat in the crib anymore, I have begun picking him up to try to rock him or just hold him.  He knows I'm still trying to put him to sleep, so more tantrums.

I think some of his tantrums may be due to what is now an inconsistent bedtime routine; but there's no way to make it consistent.  He resists every step of the way.

This Problem's History:  About 3 or 4 weeks ago we took away his pacifier.  He had been using it only for sleep time until about a month before I took it away.  About a month before we took it away, he wanted it ALL DAY LONG just to walk around with it.  I became very vigilant about using it only for bedtimes but he became more insistent about asking for it all the time.  So I decided it had to go.  I used cold turkey because he would have just been more confused if I refused it at nap but allowed it at night.  I held him and calmed him when he protested during the wind-down routine.  I PD/patted in the crib.  I patted until he was asleep at first.  By the end of the week that was down to just until he was settled.  Everything was back to pre-paci sleepytime happiness.  (BTW I had no idea how much I relied on that thing!!  Pop! back in the mouth to soothe you.)

Then for the two weeks following Daddy worked nights.  Daddy being home in the middle of the day was a novelty and ds decided there was no way he was napping while Daddy was there to play with.  This is when the tantrums started, albeit sporadically and nowhere near as intense as now.  I decided to let his morning nap slide, and give him one nap when Daddy left at 2 pm.  Maybe that was a really bad idea.  It seemed the easiest solution at the time.  I also thought that maybe he was ready to go down to one nap a day.  I was wrong.  By the end of the two weeks he was chronically overtired.  He was getting only 12 hours of sleep total a day.  The bed/nap tantrums had steadily gotten worse.

He obviously needed his two naps a day back.  I was prepared for some resistence because he is a routine kind of guy, even if the rountine is bad.  But five days ago I started his previous nap routine.  I did everything I could to get him to take his two naps a day, even if it meant rocking him to sleep.  Within two days (three days ago), the effect was obvious: a much happier, well-rested boy.  BUT it was taking me 30-40 minutes to settle him down and help him to sleep.  Once down his naps were of usual duration.  NOW I can't settle him down and get him to sleep.  Despite all my efforts this morning, he completely refused to sleep and I just now left his completely exhausted self to cry himself to sleep.  Any help I tried to give him just made him angrier.

 :?: I just don't get it.

Even when we were hit and miss with sleep ideas before BW he never threw fits like this.  Why is he so angry when I try to help?  Why has he gotten worse even though he is now getting the sleep he needs?  What do I need to do??

Offline tylersmommy

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Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2005, 18:42:29 pm »
Hmmm...what's the rest of his day look like? What time does he wake up? What time does he go to bed? I'm wondering if he might do better with one good nap, but perhaps timed better. 2 PM sounds a little late, unless he starts his day at 9. Putting him down for 2 naps when he isn't tired enough gives him enough energy to scream the house down, and putting him down for 1 nap too late can make him overtired enough to do the same darn thing. You know your baby best, though...if you really do feel that he does best with 2 naps, keep at it. Stay consistent, and he'll come around. Toddlers are notorious for throwing weird curveballs with sleep, and sometimes the best thing to do is nothing at all until it passes.

As for the tantrums, are you giving him a heads-up that bedtime will be soon? For example, "after we do x, then we go night night." Tyler gets irate when I interrupt him or just whisk him off to the next activity with no warning, so that might be part of it. And don't forget the power of choices. The tantrums may be a reaction to having to do something he doesn't want to do, ie, a control issue. Do you offer choices throughout the day? You can also offer them at sleep time, like letting him choose between 2 books to read or 2 stuffed animals to take to bed. Even though he may not make a choice, sometimes just having the opportunity to have some control is enough. Neither of these are overnight fixes, but with time, that may defuse the problem.

When he does have a tantrum, what happens if you give verbal reassurance from the door? When we do this with Tyler, we use the exact same phrase over and over..."night night, Tyler." If it isn't working, we'll pop in, lay him down, use the phrase, and leave straight away. We do this over and over and over, and eventually he calms down. We can't stay in the room either, but for the opposite reason...he peers through the crib bars and giggles the whole time. :roll:

Hang in there!
Melissa
Mommy to Tyler, 12/30/03 and Mackenzie, 10/17/06
<img src="http://b5.lilypie.com/Uavem6.png" alt="Lilypie 5th Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />

Offline Petunia

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Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2005, 13:08:08 pm »
Tylersmommy, thanks for the insight.  All good ideas.

I hadn't thought about him needing notice before we started the wind-down routine.  It used to be that the wind-down routine was the notice.  But I suspect popping the pacifier in was also part of the ease of the routine, because even when he would begin to protest bedtimes the pacifier in the mouth silenced all protests.

I tried having quiet play with him last night before bed.  I even told him before we read the last books that after we did so it would be bedtime.  It still took 30 minutes to settle him but it happened without a tantrum or real crying  :D   I think in a couple of days I won't have to do the extensive song and dance that I had to do last night to help him settle.  (oh, my back hurts from leaning over the crib and patting)

As far as naps go, he still needs two.  He rubs his eyes and is fall-down tired after being awake for two hours.  He takes another nap three hours after his morning one ends.  Naptimes total just 2.5 hours.  He sleeps from 8ish - 6:30is every night.  Before the current fiasco, he did seem to take only one nap a day about every three days or so.  That's why I thought maybe he was ready to go down to one a day.  But he's not quite yet.

Thank you so much for the help.  I don't know how long it would have taken me to figure that out, if I ever did.

Lan

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Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2005, 01:13:33 am »
A couple of things...

-Does your son have a comfort object to replace his pacifier?  Or does he have some other behaviour (eg thumb sucking) to replace the comfort the pacifer gave him? If he doesn't then this might be first thing to work on.

-Does he throw lots of tantrums about things other than bedtime? if he does, then he might need a bit more control over some of the things in his life that don't matter too muc. like the cholices.

It sounds like your son became overtired when his Dad was around in the day and now needs to make up for it with a good sleep. I would agree with Melissa that mabe transitioning to 1 nap a day might be a good idea - I know that when my son was transitioning, he would take a short (20-30 minute) nap in the morning - sometimes in the swing (not a prop because he still went to sleep easiliy in his cot, so maybe this is not an option for you).  Then he would have a longer nap (about 2 hours) in his cot around noon. Would this work for you?  Then you could shift his bedtime a bit earlier so he would have a longer sleep at night.

It sounds like a few changes have coincided all at once and thrown your routine out. Good luck!

Offline Petunia

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Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2005, 16:39:23 pm »
Ohhh, I am so frustrated.  It took an hour to get him down for his morning nap today!!

Things have been going better with naps and bedtime.  Instead of having to pat him to sleep I've only had to stand by the crib - once he settles down, which takes a while of in and out on my part.  In total it's still taking 30-40 minutes to get him down.  But everything just went awry this morning.  This morning when I stood by the crib he started bouncing all over and standing up  :x .  By the time we were thirty minutes into trying to put him to sleep he was overtired. 

I lost my patience about 20 minutes into the ordeal.  It's just so hard sometimes.  To me it's simple: if you're tired, you go to sleep.  I guess I'm frustrated that it's still taking me at least 30 minutes to get him down to sleep.   

He has a bear/blankie combo thing that he's been using since he was 8 months.  When he throws his tantrums now he throws it down as a sign of protest.  He started putting his fingers in his mouth at sleeptimes as soon as his paci was gone.

I've tried introducing the choices, but he doesn't really get it.  I don't think he's developmentally there yet.  When he sees something he wants or thinks of something he wants to do he lets me know loud and clear.  If denied what he wants, he lets me know how upset he is.

Lan

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Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2005, 23:17:58 pm »
Sometimes it can help when they're tired to "sell" the nap to them eg tell them they're tired, it's good to sleep when you're tired, when you wake up you'll feel much better. When they wake up you can ask if they've had a good sleep and if so, they'll have lots of energy to play.

Sometimes they think you are trying to put them to sleep because it's YOUR idea- you have to try and make them think it's their idea by selling the benefits of sleep! It might take a couple of weeks but it will eventually sink in. Sometimes my son tries to climb into his cot when he wants to sleep!

Lan

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Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2005, 23:26:40 pm »
Sometimes it can help when they're tired to "sell" the nap to them eg tell them they're tired, it's good to sleep when you're tired, when you wake up you'll feel much better. When they wake up you can ask if they've had a good sleep and if so, they'll have lots of energy to play.

Sometimes they think you are trying to put them to sleep because it's YOUR idea- you have to try and make them think it's their idea by selling the benefits of sleep! It might take a couple of weeks but it will eventually sink in. Sometimes my son tries to climb into his cot when he wants to sleep!

Offline Petunia

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Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2005, 17:28:16 pm »
The good news is he was asleep at 7:50 last night, a whole 10 minutes earlier than normal.




The bad news is that I started at 6:30.



I'll spare you all the details (I see the look of shock on your face).  The short story is that since he had only one nap yesterday he was ready for bed at 5:00.  But Daddy was on his way home from work and I didn't want his arrival to interfere with bedtime...and I was making dinner.  (sigh)

Offline Petunia

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Huge Tantrums at bed/nap - why??? (really long)
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2005, 17:37:48 pm »
The good news: Today I decided to go to just one nap and an earlier bedtime.  Five hours after he got up this morning I put him down for his nap.  No tantrums, no fuss; he was almost asleep by the time I finished the wind-down routine.  I walked out of his room at 9:58, five minutes after I had started. :D




The bad news: The tornado drill started at 10:00  :cry:

DS didn't go down for an hour after that.