45 minute naps!

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Hi everyone

This is my first post although I've been a 'lurker' for a while - great resource and it's such a relief to find out I'm not the only new mom battling the 45 minute nap nightmare!

I'm looking for some advice from moms who have been through what I'm experiencing at the mo. My dd, Mia is 10 weeks old and for the past month has only been napping for 45 minutes at a time.  Making ESAY more like EASYASEASY - you get what I mean!

I've read both bw books and all through the various threads on 45 minute naps.  I take full responsibility for Mia only being able to make it through 1 sleep cycle.  I was allowing her too many naps downstairs and I think what happened was she was coming into her light sleep, stirring and was not able to resettle due to seeing me or her dad or it being too bright etc. 

She now has all her naps in her room now but I still can't get her through a sleep cycle.  3 days ago I began using 'sleep to wake'  or is it 'wake to sleep' (I'm too tired to remember which way round it is!) using a dummy or shushing or hands on legs....you name it I tried it.  It didn;t work and yesterday she only managed naps of 20-30 minutes max and could not resettle.  More alarmingly she had an unsettled night - needed her dummy a couple of times which has never happened before.  Since she was 6 weeks old she has been able to sleep 10-12 hours solid - I've never done the dreamfeed (I know, I know so why am I moaning?!).  It seems I've unsettled her sleep patterns day and night so I've abandoned wake to sleep before the damage is permanent!!

Mia normally wakes at 6am and we were getting her up to start the day at this time, but since the 45 minute nap situation we've been feeding her and putting her back to bed until she wakes at 9am as she is hysterical by late afternoon.  During the day I feed her 3 hourly trying to follow EASY as best I can by walking her in the buggy etc and we muddle through as best we can - she can stay awake for an hour up to an hour 45 mins.

I've read on one of the threads that babies sort out their nightime sleep for the first 3 months and then work on their daytime naps - have any moms found this to be the case?

When she wakes up she's not crying, just babbling so I don;t really want to spend my days trying to get her to have sleep she may not actually need - but then again without the buggy and car rides she's proper cranky (I'm babbling myself now!)  :lol:

The most important thing to me is that we enjoy one another - and I can't do that crouched down by her cot all day with a dummy in my hand ready to pounce!  I think I'm looking for reassurance really that she may sort herself out on her own - as I seem to have done more harm than good!

Any comments or help are gratefully received!

Thanks in advance

Louise

[Diego's Mama]

If she wakes but isn't crying, leave her be.  She may just fall back to sleep on her own.  You may be rushing in too soon and interrupting her.  Babies wake many times and go back to sleep.

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

I do hold back from going in to see if she can settle herself - and she can't so her little cries get louder (I know what a mantra cry is and this is not it!) to the point where she's come out of sleepfullness and I can't get her to go off again.  I have more luck to be honest popping the dummy back in just as she wakes up - I can sometimes get an extra 10-20 mins out of her.

It just seems to be defeating part of the object - getting her to sleep longer so I can have some Y time.  hovering over a baby is not what I call Y time!

Really I'd be grateful to hear from any moms who have gone through this to see if their LO's outgrew it when they got a wee bit bigger and managed to stay up longer.

Anyone?  Would be really grateful to hear off you?

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Can I also ask another question while I'm at it.

Mia was knackered this morning after being up for an hour and half - we put her down in her cot after her usual wind down - suck on dummy, watch her eyes go droopy but within 5 minutes her babbling had turned to hysteria and we couldn't calm her down.

We stuck with it for 45 minutes (felt like 45 hours) and kept her in the cot, pat/ssh, hand over eyes, dummy - all which usually works but in the end we had to get her up.  I know in the books it says consistency but I really felt that the only way she would have slept in her cot at that time would have been screaming herself to sleep or passing out.  By the time we got her up she was bright red and really hot.  So we put her in her chair downstairs and she calmed herself down and finally dropped off herself...........sometimes I think I do too much to get her to sleep, she seems pretty good at doing it all by herself most of the time!

Is this the case with other moms LO's too - do you find sometimes backing off and not being consistent is the best way?

[Luke-n-Me]

Louise,

My first born definitely outgrew it.  I had myself mad for months trying to make this work and no matter what-nothing worked for him-he was spirited/touchy/textbook, by 4/5 mos. he just started doing better-mostly due to the fact that he found his thumb, but I really think he would have done better anyway.  My dd, now 8.5 weeks is starting to do the same thing and I just refuse to fight it this time, it's not worth my sanity and knowing he got through it as a spirited/touchy, I really think she'll work through it as an angel/textbook.  It just takes time, but it's not worth all your Y time (in my opinion) to get them back to sleep.  For me, if I can get them to go to sleep on their own, I figure eventually they'll get themselves resettled at the 45 minute mark!  Good luck-it will get better!

[Meg's Mom]

Hi, sorry you having such trouble but great job of getting her to sleep in her crib.  Summary of what i am going to write...yes it does get better.

I have lots of tips for you so here we go:

Mia normally wakes at 6am and we were getting her up to start the day at this time, but since the 45 minute nap situation we've been feeding her and putting her back to bed until she wakes at 9am as she is hysterical by late afternoon

That could be adding to the problem - that is essentially a big nap in am and then she may not be tired enough to sleep more thru out the day.  You need to think of her naps and night sleep as a total number.

I've read on one of the threads that babies sort out their nightime sleep for the first 3 months and then work on their daytime naps - have any moms found this to be the case?

Yes, this is correct. 

I've abandoned wake to sleep before the damage is permanent!!

  Have you read the announcement at the top of the page - great info on this tech.  It takes time to get right and you maybe aboandoning too early.

Mia was knackered this morning after being up for an hour and half - we put her down in her cot after her usual wind down

  It could be that this is too long and by the time she was in her crib she was completely overtired.  Try reducing A times by 15min.  General rule for short naps - under 3mos, less A time vs. 3-4+ mos, increase A time.

This:

I have more luck to be honest popping the dummy back in just as she wakes up - I can sometimes get an extra 10-20 mins out of her.

and this:

More alarmingly she had an unsettled night - needed her dummy a couple of times which has never happened before

Makes me think the dummy isn't helping.  If she is falling asleep w/it in her mouth and it falls out during sleep then it could be a problem as she is looking for it upon waking.  Try removing it before she falls asleep or think about getting rid of it (see how in props forum).  Remember, How they fall alseep is how they will STAY asleep (w/ paci, w/ breast, in your arms, etc). 

It just seems to be defeating part of the object - getting her to sleep longer so I can have some Y time. hovering over a baby is not what I call Y time!

  The time you invest now, will pay off later when you can just pop her in the crib (totally awake), say good night baby and walk away for 2hrs!!  You are teaching her to sleep and it takes time.  She is new at this sleep stuff, try and be patient w/ her  :wink: .  I know from experience how hard sleep training is and add to that trying to care for all their needs when they are awake!!  Yikkes   :shock:

do you find sometimes backing off and not being consistent is the best way?

  Yes, consistent but not rigid.  Just make sure you don't use the props more then 3x's in a row or 3 days in a row.

_____________
Right our story:
My LO started the 45min nap at about 3 months.  I search high and low for information and found Tracy’s work, then this site.  By this time Megan was now well into 4mos and I moved her to 4hr EASY as Tracy recommends and the short naps got a bit better.  I then used shh/pat, pu/pd (very little) and wake to sleep techniques to get her body used to sleeping thru the 1st sleep cycle as by now it was a well ingrained habit.  We saw improvement almost immediately (although small, but it was improvement) and I was convinced Tracy’s work was a godsend. 

We worked on her naps for 2 weeks solid and after much shh’ing and back aches we started sleeping about 1.25-1.50 for most naps.

Things were great for 2 wks after beating the 45min nap monster.  But then the monster came back.  I thought I would fall off the deep end.  What I didn’t take into consideration was that she was older now.  So I increase her A time by 15min and poof…the monster was gone again.  2.25hr of A time was the magic number for us. 

We have now been thru the 45min battle several times over, every time she is ready to increase her A time she starts the short naps.  So when that happens I know it is time to adjust her schedule or prepare to drop a nap.

Hope that helps 

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Thank you Nancy for your post, helped make me feel a bit better.

Thank you Michelle for going to the trouble of giving me such specific and detailed advice.  I really appreciate it.  Thank you.

I am pretty much living on the edge where naps are concerned.  I have had the two awful days with Mia who has screamed everytime I've tried to put her in her cot for a nap and basically all day long, Sunday and today.  In the end only a car ride and buggy ride have sent her off for 45 minutes where upon she has woke up screaming.

Do you ever wish you could hand your notice in from this job?

To Michelle - if you (or any experienced mommy) have a minute to reply and give your opinion on what I think is happening here, I'd be unbelievably grateful:

As I've said, Mia has now screamed for the past two days everytime I've tried to put her in her cot for a nap.   My feeling is she's resisting or panicking cos for the last few days I've tried to keep her in there past the 45 minute mark using wake to sleep and pat/ssh etc.  I think I've wound her up by sticking with it a bit too long and now she's freaking everytime I try to put her down.

So what I've decided to do - and this is where I need a bit of advice - is just back off when it comes to naps.  Mia was hysterical this afternoon, screaming that long, hard overtired cry over and over, bright red in the face..it was awful, I'm crying now just thinking about it.  I just can't take anymore and I think I'm pushing her too hard.

What I'm thinking of doing is watching her for her tired signs as normal and then trying to settle her downstairs on her chair for her naps for 3 days or so until the memory of me trying to keep her in the cot fades....and then try again.  What do you think?

She doesn;t sleep so well in her chair but it seems like it's either that or nothing at all.  Tonight and last night when we put her to bed I was convinced she wouldn't settle due to her cot phobia but after going through her feed and bath routine we put her in her cot and both nights she's let out a sigh as if to say "Thank God" and gone out like a light....  Which has broke my heart as I feel like I've been vile to her, when all I want is for her to nap well.

Please help

Louise

[nikki_lou]

Hi Louise

My little son has been battling with 45 min naps since he was 8 weeks old.  He is now 12 weeks and I sometimes dont even get a full 45 min, more like 30 min! For all this time I have tried everything, followed all the advice - tried wake to sleep/pat/shush/not stimulating too much/keeping activity time short - I tried it all!!  Nothing worked and all i found myself doing was dreading nap times as I would spend half my day trying to put him back to sleep. He would become very upset and so would I.  For the last week however, I have given up trying to get him to nap longer.  If he wakes after 20/30/40 min and is happy, I will leave him for a short while to see if he will put himself back to sleep.  If he wakes up crying and upset, I will calm him (the only thing that really works is picking him up).  He would go back to sleep if I hold him in my arms, but I do not want him to become dependent on this, so I do not do this and rather if I feel he will not sleep longer in his cot, I take him downstairs and play with him a little.  So in essence our routine is EASAS.  He is been fed every 3 and a half hours.

Sorry the reply is so long, but what I wanted to say is this - I have spent the last 4 weeks been very miserable and stressing myself out trying to get him to nap longer.  Now I dont care if he does not nap longer than 40 min.  I am hoping that he will outgrow this and feel that if he needed more sleep he will get it sometime during the day.  I only have 2 more months left with him before I go back to work and am not going to spend this time feeling miserable and stressing about trying to get him to sleep longer.  This new .  attitude change has done me the world of good and I feel much happier.  Good luck with what ever you decide to do!!!
Nikki

[sadiebean]

I have to admit, I am headed in the same direction. Not sure this is exactly moral support for newbies out there... I am a bit of a mess over this... in fact it is 1:25AM my time and my mind has not been able to shake the stress of this day. Been battling nap issues for 2 months now. And that's only when I realized there WAS an issue, which is to say, he wasn't napping before that either.

My 5-month-old too now starts fussing when I just start walking up the stairs! I hate that he has negative associations with sleep and his room, when he never had them before. Plus, where a few weeks ago he slept for 1.5-2 hours a couple of times in the morning, he hasn't made it past 20 minutes without help for the last week (since starting wake to sleep.) I wonder if he doesn't wake up now with a crying association instead of a nursing one...

I am thrilled that he can now fall asleep on his own without nursing, but I am really at wits end with trying to extend his naps. Especially since time and maturity seem to be such huge factors in this mix... I feel like I've handed over 2 months of our time together to this, and I want to enjoy this little creature... keep me posted on how you get on?

[Meg's Mom]

Sorry for the late reply - my LO has a recurring ear infection combined w/ the time change and all hell has broken loose!!

Anyway, i have been thinking lots about your question:
What I'm thinking of doing is watching her for her tired signs as normal and then trying to settle her downstairs on her chair for her naps for 3 days or so until the memory of me trying to keep her in the cot fades....and then try again. What do you think?

Not sure what the chair is?  Do you mean swing?  If so i would advise against it, but at this stage maybe you need to trust your instincts.   My advise would be to do other things in her crib and spend time in there that is not related to sleep.  That may help a lot.  I think Tracy talks about this in the new book too...

[emme's_mum]

I did a posting in the shush/pat messages but I thought I would say that I am having the same problems as those mentioned here.
After I did the other posting this morning (my time which is other side of world) I had to use shush/pat in my DD's first and second naps (third nap went out the window due to doctors appointment). It absolutely killed me  and I was silently crying while trying to shush at the same time, not an easy thing to do. I agree that it is killing nap time for her too. The first nap was not too bad then I went in on the second one just as she was waking and tried to help her back into the sleep cycle however she just screamed and screamed. Normally she just lies there while I shush/pat with her eyes open. Our problems seem to be escalating not getting less!
Before the process of trying to extend my DD's naps she was actually a happier baby and I had never heard her scream. Being that she is just over 3 months I think that is pretty good.
I feel so much pressure to make her naps longer that it is overtaking our lives and has become a bigger issue than it was before. I have this new found tenseness everytime I put her down for a nap.

I have come to the conclusion that I will use shush/pat to try to get my DD to extend her naps taking it a day at a time but if it is stressing either of us out then I am going to leave it for that nap. I know that this isn't consistent but I work 2 and a half days a week so the days I am with her I don't want to have any pressure or stress hanging over our heads.

I think that the advice Tracy has given in her books is so invaluable and I have found many answers to questions. It was definitely worth getting and I now know what a routine is. Watch out next child!!!

I definitely know how you feel Louise and I am actually glad that someone else is having a similar problem (not glad but you know what I mean) because I thought it was just me and my DD that were getting worked up with the nap thing.

Pip

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Michelle - we haven't got a swing for her, it's just a normal baby seat where you can adjust the height.  A swing would be way too tempting as Mia would fall asleep in in like a shot!

I think the only thing I can do at the mo is trust my instincts like you say.  I'm just about to get her up and it's really tempting to try her in her room again but I'm going to resist and try tomorrow.

Thanks to all the other moms for their postings.  Made me feel sooo much better knowing I'm not the only one going through this.

Louise