How to eliminate the crying at nap time!!

[debandbrian]

OK, I am back - was on a week or two ago trying to get naps sorted out.
Not sure if this post goes here, or in props, or pu/pd, but here goes...

My ds is almost 7 months and I have been working on naps for the past bit. Now there HAS been progress - we went from sleeping only on my chest to the crib, and then eliminated the nursing to sleep. I would really like to teach ds to fall asleep independently but I am not sure how to do it right.

At the moment his EASY is about 3 hours (he's a slight little guy at 14 lbs) but I try to use his sleepy cues to determine this.  At naptime we wind down in his room. Then lights out, white noise on, I walk (he associates the chair with the breast and gives quite a fight if I try to sit) and hum. I know I replaced the nursing with the rocking but I figured one thing at a time. He usually fusses and squirms quite a bit for the first 5 - 1o mins until he falls asleep. He stirs a bit when put in crib but a little pat usually works. Then he sleeps for about 30 mins and I go in and do the whole thing all over again. Any attempt to try to put him down awake results in hysterical crying, arched back, kicking legs. I have with little consistency tried pu/pd but I honestly don't know if I am doing it right and it's very frazzling to try to hold a kicking, crying baby. Same thing with standing or sitting next to his crib - he shows no signs of winding down. I'd almost prefer to leave bc it's easier just to listen to the crying than to have to watch it, but I know CIO is not what I want to do.

So I don't really know what to do next. I have Tracy's first book but it just doesn't clear things up for me. I know others on the boards have experienced success in similar situations, so I guess I am looking for a really specific rundown of exactly what steps to take at nap time.
Just to add more clarifying info - he doesn't do this at night - goes down drowsy and either falls asleep quietly or does a bit of wind-down crying but it's really nothing compared to what happens in the day. He also has had no interest in the pacifier for over a month so I don't even try that.
Any help would be wonderful!!!
Deborah

[fleadle]

Your story sounds very familiar....my LO (3 months) also seems to fight sleep during naps in the day, but at night she goes straight down like a log.

I found that holding her when she was falling asleep was very distressing at first....legs kicking, doubling her body up & going red in the face!!....with other mums asking if she had tummy ache or bad wind, but I knew she was just fighting sleep...

I used to let her CIO, but it just didn't really work & upset me more.

I too have to stand & rock her, she knows when I sit & just starts crying again. (I have heard this is a sign of intelligence - not sure if it's true but it makes me feel better!!)

I find that holding her very tightly & trying to stop her arms & legs flailing really works......I guess it's the same principal as swaddling but without the blanket...this has got a lot better as she has got older, with the fighting sleep dropping from 15/20 mins all the way down to approx 5mins.

I wait until she has relaxed & just fallen asleep....when you can feel her go heavy in your arms...then I put her in her cot, this usually wakes her up slightly (which is what I want - so she is actually falling asleep in the cot herself).

If she fidgets I either rub her back or place a hand firmly on her back & shush at the same time. Seems to be working well now & is much better than letting her CIO or putting her straight in her cot.

Hope this might help a bit!

 

[Luke-n-Me]

I've been doing the exact same thing and its really working well.  It even seems to have improved short naps because she's so calm when I put her down.  Good luck!

[debandbrian]

I just tried for nap #2 today and I want to cry it out myself now :cry:
I did the same thing I usually do but I tried to do less walking and bouncing around, just tried to stand still without making any noise. He really resisted that so I gave in and rocked him. He slept for 25 mins then was awake crying again. He fought even harder the second time around but he is now back to sleep.
Putting him down when he is *almost* asleep is what starts the uncontrollable crying and I really can't handle it - he has to be sound asleep to be put down and I am trying to eliminate carrying him around his room for 20+ minutes while he is fussing.
I am so discouraged. I never thought he would nap in his crib so at the beginning of this when I was nursing him to sleep and then he'd sleep close to an hour - sometimes more - I was feeling a lot better. The naps are getting shorter and shorter and the more tired he is, the more upset he gets and then so do I!!
Where do I start??? He starts to fuss as soon as the lights go out and he knows nap time is coming. When the fussing turns to crying I just don't know what to do!!

[CaedensMama]

Here is one thing I did that helped get us past holding to sleep and going to sleep without being held - though I still sit by him till he relaxes and is almost asleep - depends on his mood how long I stay.

I started putting him to bed in our bed and laying right next to him. I swaddled him and would put my hand on his chest or stroke his body and let him fall asleep. The first few times he screamed for awhile and then whimpered and then finally fell asleep - took about 30 minutes the first day or so - every nap. Then it started shortening and within a week he was usually asleep within 5-10 minutes with just a few cries or whimpers. I would then leave him and let him nap on our bed and when he went to sleep at night I would move him after about 30 minutes into his bed.
After doing this for about 2-3 weeks, he was napping well and going to sleep well I moved to his bed and did the same thing, but instead of laying with him I just stood or sat there. Still putting my hand on his chest or stroking him (pu/pd and pat/shush was too much all together for him, just doing one thing seemed to be what he needed)
Now - I lay him down, talk a few minutes, maybe a little stroking or placing of hand on his chest and then I leave. Sometimes he will go right to sleep and sometimes I stay till he is more asleep and sometimes I leave and comeback if he cries and hold my hand there. But he is doing much better.

For us - this worked well - Caeden was about 3 months when I started. He is almost 5 months now. So I don't know if it is something that would help you or not, but thought I would share!

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi there! I feel your desperation, I was just in a similar place about 2 weeks ago. I slipped in accidental parenting. My lo had lots of tummy issues, so we rocked and held him until he fell asleep. It was so hard to get him to sleep. Once he was asleep, and we laid him down he woke up and the whole process started all over again. I am new mom so I dont know if this will be much help, but here is what I did.

1. I bought the miracle blanket.
I realized my son longed to be in the womb and need to be swaddled to feel comforted. The first night he slept from 10:30 to 6:30!

2. I bought a pillow that raised his head a bit and also acted as a wedge.
He loves this. I am not sure if it is the extra padding, helps with reflux, or adds to the swaddled effect.

3. I watched him like a hawk looking for his sleeping cues.
Once I saw one, I started the wind down routine.

The next steps were gradual for us. I took one chunk at time.

4. Started a wind down routine.
For about ten minutes, I would swaddle him, take him in an almost dark room, and whisper lullabyes. I only did this until I felt he was ready for the sleeping routine. Then there is no talking. In the beginging he cried. I just shhh real loud, rocked vigously, and patted. I stopped rocking when he stopped crying, but continued the other 2 things.

5. I rocked, shh, and patted him for a few days until he was asleep or close to it. Then lowered him into the bassinet (sort of tilted on his side to alleviate the falling sensation) and continue shh, patting and maybe rocking the bassinet. I only did this a few days.

6. When I felt that he was liking the shh and patting, I gradually elminated the rocking and just shhh and patted him. The rocking time gradually got smaller.

7. Now I shh and pat until he almost asleep. Then lay him on his side (using the wedge) in the crib and shh and pat. I do this until he is all the way alseep. To be sure I do it for about 10 to 15 minutes after I think he is asleep. This is key to ensure that he stays asleep. It might not seem to work at first, but keep trying it will work.

8. Be consistent! Find the routine that works for you and stick with it. Babies like to know what comes next and love routine.

Also, if your lo wakes up aroud the same time every nap, beat him to it. Start patting and shhh just before the time he usually wakes. I still have to do this becuase my son sometimes wakes after 45 min.


This takes a lot of time at first, but well worth it in the long run. It has been a couple of weeks and now my son knows that when I swaddle him it is time. Dont get me wrong though, things aren't perfect he still cries a little, but it is far better that it used to be. I know it seems as though there is no end in sight, but just keep your chin up it will get better. Get tracy's 2nd book, it is more detailed with her advice.

I am sorry for the chapter book. I hope something helps.

[debandbrian]

I really appreciate the chapter book!!
Still not much progress getting over this hurdle of having to rock him to sleep. I just tried putting him down drowsy and he started to cry and kick so I picked him up immediately and rocked until he fell asleep.
But I am going to keep at it and hope that eventually he'll just fuss instead of full out cry, and then maybe the sh/pat will work. I can't bear to stand next to him and watch him cry!!

It's just amazing how different night time is - I have made a conscious effort to put him down wide awake the past couple of nights, and he has fallen right to sleep without a peep. Same thing in the middle of the night - he has one feed sometime around 5 - and if he's still awake at the end of it I put him down awake and there hasn't been any crying there either! Maybe it's the darkness - though his room does have black shades, it's dim, not dark, in the daytime -or maybe he is just more calm/tired.
I don't know, but I'll just keep at it. We've come this far and I'd really like to get there!!
Thanks again for the advice -
Deborah
 :roll:

[sa]

may be try doing winddown 20-30 mins before nap time. sit together with some soft toys, tell a story, sing a song. wait till he gives you some sleepy cue - rub eyes, big sign ... etc.

rock him a little if you want to, when he yawns, put him down to bed. in the first few days, may be you can wait till he yawns twice. then gradually you can put him down more awake.

hth

[sadiebean]

My little one fussed when going upstairs and sitting on the rocking chair in his room because he had negative associations about naps (from crying during pu/pd and trying to extend short naps). Also, he fusses more a) when he has already fallen asleep and I put him in bed, and b) when he is really tired. All of these things sound like issues for you, if I'm reading right.

A few things have worked for us to make naps a peaceful event (if not yet a long enough one  :wink: ):

1) Spending time in his room with the shades up, playing, so that he has more than just a naptime association.

2) A very gradual (which does not mean long) winddown:

 -- begins when he is JUST getting tired... (it is never too early! you can always extend the winddown time, but you can't undo overtired)

 -- includes time in his room with the shades up, us looking out the window singing his naptime song quietly one time. Sort of tricks him into mellowing out IN his room, and makes the flow to the crib more gradual.

( ** if he's overtired, because his last nap was too short, or I just missed the boat, first I'll lay down with him in our room, bright and sunny, before even going into his room, and sing his nap song. My thinking is it gets him laying down rather than in my arms, but doesn't jog his naptime memory and cause a meltdown. Again, sort of tricking him into mellowing out. Then move to sitting in the chair in his room.)

 -- Then, I stand up and start singing his song again, and place him in the crib. I lay my head on his chest (because he often reaches for me anyway) and cuddle with him and keep singing it.

 -- Then I pick my head up and if needed, I sit in the chair near his crib, put my head right near him, but out of reach (I give my fingers if he's reaching) and keep my hand on him. I'll sing the song again... or shh/pat (** I found ssh/pat the most helpful in the beginning when first training him to sleep independently)... or just pat... or just keep my hand on him. Or if I can get away with it, I'll just put the side of the crib up, strock his face and touch his chest, tell him I love him and to sleep well.

All of this seems to help him sort of "end up" mellow and quite sleepy in his crib with him barely knowing how it happened.

phew! sorry for the book -- hope there's SOMEthing in here to help you! Good luck!!
Ann

[Anya's Mommy]

Ok, I'm totally ready to pull my hair out.  We have a 5 month old daughter who sleeps GREAT at night.  She has a routine that she anticipates  -  bath, bottle, sleep, every night the same thing at appr the same time.  She does very well with a 10pm feeding, and then goes thru till appr 5am.  BUT, she's a tiger to go down in the day!  Fights and cries.  Exhausting.  Some days I'm lucky if she sleeps 2 hours.  I try 'reading' her tired cues, but heaven knows, they mean nothing at all when she realises she has to go sleep.  When she does fall asleep, it's the 30-45 min thing.  I think I'm answering myself here  -  she needs a daytime routine like she has a night time routine, right?  Which begs the next question  -  how long does it take for a baby to 'learn' a new routine??  She has no daytime routine.  Why could they not just come with a manual, or even a little 'gauge' on their arms or something so you can know when they are 'full' or need more to eat???  Oh, why not??

[Mom2X&F&V]

And I thought I was the only one on the edge... my 5 mo old wonīt nap but 30 to 45 min, and just before eat time she falls asleep or is completely irritable. Itīs been 2 days that I put her on a nap routine, eat at 7 am sleep at 9, eat 11, sleep 1, but it has been worse each day. She still wakes up at 45 min mark or even 30 and when I tried to put her back to sleep again she cries and cries as if someone was hurting her and it even sounds like a tantrum. I am on the borderline of desperation and do not know what else to do as Iīve tried pat and pu and paci which she hates, the only way she falls by herself is in her grandma swing, but I  donīt wanna make this a parental mistake I could not repair later. So please please, just someone tell me that someday sheīll get over the 45 min and she would sleep more, and that naps wold not be a nightmare please? Why is it that some babies sleep all day long with no need of help and others need help and even with help they sleep just a little? I am really really stressed out a lot and on a bad mood with her... please help us!

[mom711baby]

Oh, I wish I had an answer for you, but I am just writing to say that I am having the same problem with my daughter.  She sleeps great at night, but she doesn't nap well.  The naps seem to be getting worse.  I need a good naptime routine as well.  But everything I try seems to stimulate her too much.  I have tried just holding her and humming and even standing/swaying for a while, but she will just not go down!  Do I just need to keep trying the same thing (swaying and humming) and soon she will get it?  I feel like I have been doing it forever, and no progress.  Please someone help us...how long does it take for a naptime routine to work? 

Thanks,
Emily
mom to Madeline
7-11-05
textbook with a little touchiness

[spacecat4]

Some suggestions for those of you having a hard time with naps...
At 4 and 5 months (according to TH and my experience) baby should be on a 4 hour instead of 3 hour routine--where the naps are lasting around 1 1/2-2 hours--OK so how do you get there?
Here are some suggestions:
When they are eating make sure they are getting a full feed--make sure they refuse more--make a new bottle if necessary if you are FFing.
Don't give them a bottle or breast just because they are crying--if they have eaten well they don't need it-you are only teaching them to use food as a pacifier and not as nourishment. (Use a paci if necessary)
If they are crying and you know they are fed and changed and not in pain, then you know you can deduce they are tired! And they NEED to sleep--it is not your fault they are crying--they are just tired and the solution is sleep (keep telling yourself this to stay strong!)
Most babies this age can't stay awake more than 2 hours at a time--so start looking for those sleep signs an hour after they are awake (sooner if they haven;t napped well) and then start that wind down ritual.
Move back the bedtime to 7ish. You can do this gradually in 15 min increments if there is resistence. I know this sounds crazy, but the longer and better they sleep at night the better they sleep during the day and vice versa. TH recommends the "dream feed' at 10pm, but we haven't needed that since he was about 3 months old (he sleeps from 6:30pm to 6:30am)
When they wake up after 45 min--dont rush in-this is a natural sleep pattern. We had to train Nate to get back to sleep with a combination of CIO (for about 5 min) and Pick up put down. This doesn't happen immediately, but you should see progress in a few days (where it takes less time for them to go back to sleep) the important thing is to remain persistant and don't take them out of the crib (except when P/u P/D) until the full nap time has passed. Also don't hold them too long-put them back down teh second they calm down--they will cry--this is OK, they need to learn how to fall back to sleep on their own, you are there for moral support.
For those of you trying to ween them of sleep props--like yourself--the getting into their crib is a good idea since that is where you want them to learn to sleep. At first you may need to stay there the entire nap so you can be there when they wake up. Eventually take yourself out of the crib, but stay in the room. And then work your way into leaving the room after they are fully asleep
Be patient and persistent--don't give up after only a couple of days and try something else--give it at least a week and I promise you will see results!
We've been at it for 5 months and we still have our harried days-but overall it has consistently gotten better!
I hope this helps!
Good luck!

[Anya's Mommy]

Hi Ladies! 

Thanks for all of you inputs!  What I see as a common thread is consistency and just biting of the bullet for a week or so.  We are going to give it a go. 

Emily, the routine that works for Anya at night is that I don't let her sleep after appr 5pm.  She has a bath at 6:30pm, then in her room with soft music and in my arm, she gets a bottle.  Normally she falls asleep in my arm and I put her down and she stays asleep.  If she is still awake at the end of the feeding, I try to rock her, and if she is not asleep after 5-10min. or so, I put her down and close her door.  Normally, she'll cry a bit, I'll go and put her dummy back, and then she falls asleep.  I do wake her at 10pm for a 'dream feeding', and then she'll easily go to 5:30am.  The 'dream feeding' used to be at 11pm, but we SLOWLY, over about 3 weeks, made our way to 10pm.  This all seems to work well for her. 

It took her about 2 weeks to get used to this routine, and we started it when she was about 2 months old.  It took longer than 2 weeks to wean her off the 2 am feeding!!!  Now my biggest 'problem' is this nap-thing she has going on!  Geez.

Once again, thanks to all you ladies that sent 'help'! 

Annette, Anya's Mom

[mom711baby]

Hi Annette, thanks for the reply about your night routine.  We have a similar night time routine, but Madeline is not in bed until 8:30, and I am thinking it might help to move her bedtime up to around 7:30.  I will start moving it up tonight.
Madeline used to be able to take a short nap here and there and wake up happy, but lately she's been waking up a little cranky...and it is so hard to get her to go back to sleep after the short naps.  She will not tolerate pu/pd...and pat/ssh just stimulates her.  The one thing that works (rarely) is to give her a paci.  I hate the paci!!  I have tried letting her soothe herself by fussing/grunting, but the fusses just kind of escalate.  Now she absolutely refuses her afternoon naps, and I know she is tired.  Oh well, I'm babbling...I just can't seem to find anything that works.  Maybe the earlier bedtime will help a little.
Thanks again for the replies and for letting me vent. 

Emily
mom to Madeline
7-11-05
textbook/touchy