Author Topic: 6 week  (Read 6929 times)

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Offline cymonguk

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« on: November 08, 2005, 09:28:42 am »
Our dd is in her 6th week, and suddenly everything has gone a little haywire..

Previously she would feed alst thing at night between 11:30-12:30 and then sleep till around 5:30-6:00, suddenly she has started waking up every three hours and wants to feed for an hour plus.

My poor wife is absolutely exhausted, Phoebe has never been a great sleeper during the day, but we have got used to this and because she slept 5 hours at night we could survive.

She did sleep for three hours late last night, unfortunately my wife took this as an opportunity to "do things", so she didnt sleep then.

Is this to be expected around now? Will she go back as before herself or do we need to start putting more effort into giving her a stricter schedule?

Offline Katet

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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2005, 09:52:05 am »
Sounds like a 6 week growth spurt... very normal. If she is bf she should offer as often as possible in the day time - to build up supply... if bottle feeding increase the amount offered.
 It usually lasts about 3 days & if it hasn't settled in 4-5 then post a question again.
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Offline cymonguk

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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2005, 16:02:56 pm »
Well she seems to have got over this, she is back to her normal routine of 5-6 hour sleeps at night.

However we are still haveing lots of problems with her sleeping generally this is an example day:


12-5 - Sleeps (in our bed (yes I know :()
5-6 - Feeds
6-9 - Sleeps
9-11 - Awake, gets fussy, obviously shattered but cant get to sleep
11-12 - Sleeps fitfully (on my wife)
12-4 - Awake mostly, gets grumpy obviously overtired still
4-6:30 - Sleeps (on my wife)
6:30 - 9 - Awake, lots of crying and being grumpy
9-10 - Sleeps
10-12 - Awake

During her awake time she probably only is active for 20 minutes at a time then she will want to feed, and then she is grumpy

Phoebe is inconsolable when she starts crying, the only way I have found is to put her into her sling, and this will sometimes help.

Obviously the night time sleeping is great, and means we get some rest especially my wife, but during the day she just doesnt seem to be able to sleep.

I am considering a miracle blanket to stop her fussing so much, but I know she isnt keen on swaddling when we have tried it but that may be down to the technique we have used.

She is a bit of touchy/spirited baby from what we cn tell so far.

But I wouldnt swap her for the world, her smiling and coos when I get home are worth those hours of crying and walking back and forth...

I think she would be better sleeping on her own if we could do it, but she just wont stop crying even with shh/pat

Offline Katet

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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2005, 20:38:43 pm »
How long is she awake before you put her down for a sleep. do you feed her on waking? I would keep her up no more than an hour possibly only 45mins - including feed time... sounds to me like she is overtired.
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Offline joceyjaime

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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2005, 21:04:56 pm »
Sounds to me like she is overtired too.  I'm amazed because your schedule looks identical to how our baby's was until this week when we started EASY.  He was so grumpy and cried all of the time.  He was constantly fussy and I was going out of my mind.

When our baby was 5 weeks old we were desperate, we got the BW book and read it.  Then, we got him out of our bed and started putting him down for a nap much more quickly after his feed so that his awake time is about an hour to an hour and 15 minutes.  At first that seemed so short to me but I guess they need a lot of sleep because he goes right down for his nap now. 

It took a couple of very rough days to get him to go down for a nap without being held while he slept.  But, now that he is on EASY, he is much happier and our home is much more calm.   It's worth the rough couple of days adjustment.

Good luck!

Offline cymonguk

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Thanks for the suggestions so far
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2005, 09:53:43 am »
however can I ask for more advice?  :roll:

Yesterday basically we had a bit of a break down  :(

My wife had had a really bad day with Phoebe, and we had a blazing argument, to be honest I wasnt particularly helpful  :( , but its as frustrating for me as it is Karen..

We have made up now :D , and we know we need to try to sort this out, but we are still stuck on the how.

Yesterday was pretty much the same as shown on the schedule above except she went to bed last thing earlier but hardly got any sleep from 1pm-9pm! She is a bit sniffly at the moment and cant really breathe as well as she should which doesnt help at night right now.

The other issues are that Phoebe almost always feeds to sleep, this results in her sleeping on Karens chest, except at night (when she sleeps in our bed). Thus Karen yesterday didnt get changed all day, hadnt had a shower/brushed her teeth, and cant have any "you" time. When Phoebe falls asleep with Karen she will wake up as soon as you move her or within 5 minutes (yesterday evening I took her and Karen went for a shower and within two minutes she was awake).

When she is going to sleep, she is really fussy, she will bob on and off, part crying, etc so we know she is knackered besides being awake for 8 hours.

We cant even get to the stage of using the breast pump to help because Phoebe is permanently attached, mind you Karen tried last night and Phoebe actually rather seemed to like the noise of the electric pump it sent her to sleep... lol.

We know Phoebe is capable of sleeping on her own as for the last two weeks after a thirty minute car journey she has slept in her car seat for 2-2.5 hours (I know this is not ideal, but it would be a long story why this is better for her than waking her up after two hours). So it is obvious she can sleep without being attached, as long as she falls asleep on her own.

Can anyone help with how we break this down into smaller steps to break the reliance on feeding to sleep, and then getting her to sleep on her own. I have tried shh/pat but she seems to be able to scream louder than we can shh  :x, and then she starts almost choking  :( . I have to say my wife does not like to hear her scream anyway so it makes it difficult.

I love her to bits but Im worried this could be starting to cause problems for Karen (I dont think its got to PPD yet), but Im worried that much longer with this might cause some depression.

I have tried swaddling her but Im not sure we did it right, but she really seemed to hate it.

Someone mentioned they had a rough couple of nights, can someone explain what this might mean, what stages we might expect I can then share this discussion with my wife, and hoefully she can see there is light at the end of the tunnel??

Thanks

Simon

Offline cymonguk

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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2005, 11:20:48 am »
We feel Phoebe is missing out, because only occasionally does she get to play, sometimes she will sit happily for 20-25 minutes in her ring cooing at her toys but because we change her when she wakes up (insists my wife), then she is fed because she is hungry, then she is tired or cross or asleep, she doesnt seem to have any fun time, when we went to my mothers after the half hour journey and 2 hour sleep, she is a lovely thing quite happy to play with Nanna and Grandad, but then she gets grumpy because she is tired cant get off to sleep and we have to leave because she screams the place down.

Offline cymonguk

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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2005, 16:29:42 pm »
I have been readin the latest BW book, and there are various recommendations, I have been and bought a miracle blanket today to see if that will help.

Currently I have to say that because she feeds to sleep then this is a problem, I know my wife might be reluctant to break this as she will fear that Phoebe just wont go to sleep full stop (indeed she has cried for 15 minutes whilst trying other things), but I guess we need to put some activity in between her feeding and going to sleep.

We also tend to have her downstairs when she is feeding, should we go upstairs or should we feed her downstairs then take her up to her room, where its nice and dark and quiet to do the four S?

I guess we also need to try and do an EASY plan, the question is at 6 weeks should we be going for a three hour easy plan or four? Say we choose four and she feeds for 45m, then plays 45m, then she should sleep 2.5 hours (including everything), what do you do after 2.5 hours and she is still asleep? What if she wants more feeding?

Aggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  :shock:  :D

Offline cymonguk

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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2005, 17:36:44 pm »
Phoebe has only had 1.5 hrs sleep in the last 10  :shock: . My wife is definitely close to breaking point now. :cry:

I can see this is going to be a long night

Offline Mom2katiebug

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Long reply...
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2005, 20:00:31 pm »
I can relate to the incredible love you feel, but also being drained, frustrated, sleep deprived and wondering exactly what I got myself into and if/when life will resemble something normal ever again.

I'm stumbling through this with our lovely daughter, Katie (3WO), so I'm no expert, but here's what I would recommend:

1.  Keep Phoebe awake while she eats.  We've turn the lights on, unwrap Katie, move arms/legs, talk to her, and even used the wet washcloth (that one just seemed cruel, though) to keep our sleepy eater awake and finishing a bottle.  She's generally takes 20-40 minutes to finish a 3-4 oz. bottle. 

2. I definitely agree with changing AFTER eating.  Katie will almost always wake up during a diaper change - even if it's just to a drowsy state.  Better than full asleep in my opinion.  Then we go straight to sleep.  The diaper change is all the activity Katie can handle most times.  (Evenings are her more alert periods where we can study each others faces, take a bath, sing with dad, etc.)  However, even with the diaper change she still looks for the bottle (just needs a nip or two) when she's overtired.  We've been working on it for a couple of days and sometimes it's good - she'll go to sleep in 5-10 minutes; sometimes it's 45 minutes of full-on crying. 

3.  Katie is used to being held to sleep (sometimes with bottle, like at night; sometimes just being walked around).  My attempts to go "cold turkey" to the crib have been met with crying fits.  I swear she just knows when we get close to the crib sometimes and starts crying!  So, just today, I thought it might be a good transition step to use shh/pat while she's in my arms.  It's actually more like a shh/bounce.  We definitely have a bedtime/naptime routine that we follow:  draw the shade, say goodnight to the dog, start our lullaby music and sit very still in the rocker.  I don't rock the chair or make eye contact, but I do bounce her a little bit to mimick the pat and I do the "shh".  My theory is that it if she gets used to the pat/shh in my arms, it will make the transition to the crib easier if the pat/shh already is part of the routine.   Would LOVE feedback on others if they think this might be effective.

4.  Swaddle Phoebe anyway.  Our little Katie needs to be swaddled - those flailing arms and legs are just way to distracting for her.  Katie will sometimes struggle and fight against it and sometimes I have to re-swaddle her a few times but I think overall it really helps.  Let me know what you think of the Miracle Blanket - I just ordered our third brand of swaddle blanket because our little Houdini seems to get out of everything!

5.  If you haven't tried a paci, give it a whirl.  It may buy you a few minutes of calm, or at least less intense crying. The BW books say that it's okay for the first few months. 

6.  Your wife may want to explore pumping and bottle-feeding the breast milk.  I can't offer a lot of thoughts here, because we're bottle-feeding (milk supply issues).  But, when I was trying to breast-feed, Katie would always resist the bottle and paci after she had the breast.  Major drama for the next couple of feedings.  Pumping is a good alternative for us so she can still have some breast milk, dad can help with the feedings giving mom a break (for a shower, walk, nap or just a sanity break), and it didn't cause problems with subsequent feedings. 

7.  Always remember and remind your wife that she is a great mother and you are a great father.  Support each other during all of this. 

8.  Two quotes that I remember when my LO is bawling is that:
a) All babies cry.  And, it doesn't mean you're a bad parent.
b) No baby every died from crying.  (Although I think maybe a parent or two might have  :D )

9.  I don't know how long all of this will take.  We're in the midst of it now and, there are good feeds/bad feeds, good and bad naps/sleep.  Maybe someone else can provide some guideance on how long.  The books say an average of 3 days.  But, they also say that it takes less time/retraining the younger your baby is. 

10.  Last item, I promise.  Some of the best parenting advice I've gotten is that you have to do what works for the family (part of the BW philosophy).  Some things clearly aren't working for the whole group and it might take some tears (from baby, mom and dad) to get to a better arrangement.

Good luck.  Hope others have some more suggestions.
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Offline Mom2katiebug

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A couple of more things...
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2005, 20:16:32 pm »
Did you say that Phoebe is Touchy/Spirited?  From other posts, I've read that T/S babies don't like to be swaddled.  I'm not sure what the parents do to keep the arms/legs from being a disruption...

Also some other parents have posted that shh/pat actually stimulates their babies - not soothes!  So, see what works for Phoebe.  Some other soothing things we use for our LO includes a gentle rub/caress of the top of her head (like smoothing her hair) and if she gets overtired, rubbing her eyebrows will help her relax and it forces her to close her eyes.

Finally, when we were making the transition from our bed to her crib (during the first week), I considered sleeping with Katie's bedding for a couple of nights to get our scent on her sheets.  I thought this might make it seem more like our bed.  I didn't actually do it though, so I don't know if it would help.

Gotta go.  My boss is calling again!
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Offline Jaime

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Re: A couple of more things...
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2005, 20:20:38 pm »
Quote from: Mom2katiebug
I've read that T/S babies don't like to be swaddled.  I'm not sure what the parents do to keep the arms/legs from being a disruption...

they don't like it, but boy do they need it!!!  believe it or not, when they're that little, the ones who fight it the most really benefit from it.  you might want to try the aussie swaddle - instructions are at the top of this forum.

you've gotten some great advice so far.

your wife is an amzaing woman and a fantastic mother.   :D
Jaime
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DS - Touchy/Grumpy

Offline cymonguk

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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2005, 23:34:47 pm »
OK well tonight hasnt been the best...

7-8 : Wife asked if we could take her out in the car to try and buy some sleep for her and baby, I agreed, reluctantly (not tho too my wife), on the basis she needed something. We drove for an hour 10 mins. Phoebe slept for an hour or so.

8-9 : She fed on my wife
9-11: I swaddled phoebe tight, in miracle blanket, put her over shoulder and into her room (which has a nice low light), she started to drop off, then woke up again, so i took her into our room, and sat down. She cried for a few minutes on and off with me shh/patting, and my wife came in, i was expecting a huge argument, but sh said tracey had done it for 17 mins once, so i carried on, after 13 mins she started nodding so i put her down.

She smiled and fell asleep, so i carried on shhh-ing, but i knew it wouldnt last, she woke up and cried and i sshh-d her back off then two mins later she screamed, so ihad to pick her up, she nodded off so i put her down as she was going and repeated the last sequence  :roll:

I have to say she has now fed to sleep on my wife, i know, but i think we need to make a clean start tomorrow. Im going to try and get a holiday for weds so i can help for a full day.

Should we try to cure both problems of her feeding to sleep and sleeping on us/in our bed, or should we cure just one? I know we can crack the feeding to sleep if we want, the putting down is going to be harder...

Offline cymonguk

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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2005, 23:35:54 pm »
Oh and thankyou for the ideas and help, i am using them, hopefully we wont go insane...

Offline cymonguk

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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2005, 23:44:56 pm »
The miracle blanket does work, she wasnt overly impressed at first, especially when getting her into it, but once she was wrapped and over my shoulder she was quite happy.

She still fought tho, but its great for a number of reasons, during feeding she normally scratches karen to death, or hits her and fusses a lot. Not with the MB.

Phoebe did get her legs out but Im not convinced I have done it right.

Certainly better than a normal blanket much easier to get her in, and control her arms.

I have to say I do feel a little mean as she is now finding her hands pretty consistently and sucks them to death, however this is not a good thing as it does not soothe her yet. She gets annoyed they arent giving milk!