Forgotten how to self Soothe??.....

[Katw]

Hi there,

I am wondering if anyone else has gone through this with their LO?

I started BW when DD was 5 weeks and spent a good 2-3 weeks ' sleep training' her. It worked and for a couple of months she would put herself to sleep for naps and at night ( generally).

However for the past 6 weeks or so, the evening sleep has been a constant struggle and now days are going downhill too.

It's as though she's forgotten how to soothe herself to sleep. Does this happen or did she never learn it in the first place?
I only ever did sh/pat and not pu/pd as she is swaddled and if I pu then her swaddle comes undone. Also she never full on cried so didn't think she needed pu. Now though sh/pat does not seem to have any affect either, its as though she has forgotten what it means!

If anyone has any suggestions to help put her back on track that would be great. DH thinks if we go back to shushing in night etc that we are going backwards and teaching her to be dependant on us to get her to sleep again - is this correct or will abit of sh/pat sort her out???
Thanks in advance for your help!!!

[Maddy's Mum]

Hi there,

Can you give us an example of DDs routine with feeds and naps so we can see whats going on.

Many thanks
Dee
x

[Katw]

Hi
Thanks for your reply. Here is our general routine, it depends on if she has swimming or her baby sign classes, as on those days I get her up earlier so she can sleep before going.

Wake - now about 6.15am ( try to get her back a sleep until 7am with a re-swaddle)
Eat- 7am BF , then solids about 7.45am
Sleep - 8.30am ( trying to go until 9am but if she wakes earlier than 7am this is difficult) until 10.30 or 11am
Eat - 12pm solids
Sleep - 1 or 1.30pm until 3pm ish
Eat - 3pm ish BF
Eat - 5pm - solids
Bath , Bottle Bed etc starting 6.30pm and then sleep should be 7pm but this is where the battle starts.

On days she wakes earlier we try to get her to have a catnap but she refuses this most of the time now, even with me shushing for about 20-30mins.
I know she's tired when its bed-time as after her milk she starts rubbing her eyes and putting her head into me, but the minute I lay her down to swaddle her she's full of beans again.

She has always been quite hard to get to sleep and she rarely sleeps in the car and never in her pushchair but its just getting worse daily now.

Its as though she's forgotten how to put herself to sleep and we need to teach her how again!

Thanks for your help - sorry this is long but I wanted to give you as much info as poss!!!

[Katw]

Forgot to add - we do the DF at about 10.30 or 11pm, she takes 7oz of formula and then goes through until the morning - this has only been since she was on solids twice a day.
Thx

[GG]

By bedtime, she's overtired, which is why she's putting up a fight.  There's a pretty large gap between the last nap and and bedtime.  At her age she should really be getting a catnap so that she makes it to bedtime w/o a fight.

You said she doesn't take that last nap.  When you put her in her crib, does she put up a fight or is she cooing and playing?  If she's whining or generally being unhappy, then she definitely needs the nap.  Of course, if she's not crying, you shouldn't do PU/PD.  Just put her in her crib and leave her be.  What does she do?

Also, I'd suggest making sure to wake her if she sleeps past the 2 hour mark in the first nap.

[Katw]

Thanks for your reply.
It's so hard as a few weeks ago I posted as she wouldn't go to sleep and just kept smiling and laughing when we went in and I was advised that she could be ready to drop the catnap.

But I think you're right and shes not, as yes she is totally overtired by bedtime and I know she wants to sleep as she's always rubbing her eyes.

However if she has the catnap at say 5pm , when will she have her tea? Should I move it to 5.30pm? But then I'm worried she won't want her milk at bedtime.

I guess it'll take a while for her to accept the catnap again as she's used to not having it.
Do you think once she has it , it may help sort out bedtime? Should the catnap just be about 20-30mins at that time of day - I always get worried that she won't sleep at 7pm if she only woke up at 5.30pm?

And yes she does fight the catnap and kicks off, I normally try for about 20mins and then give up and get her up, guess I'll just have to keep going but for how long??

Sorry for all the questions but any help would be great!
Thanks

[GG]

I'd say put her down for her nap in her dark room.  If she decides she wants to play, leave her alone in there for the duration of the wind down and the nap, so until 5:30 PM.  Then just go in there and bring her out.  If she absolutely won't nap, at least you can have her in a very low-key environment which may help her relax enough so that she makes it 'til 7 PM.  The nap should definitely not last longer than 20-30 min, and not past 5:30 PM.  By that time of day she should be tired enough so that she'll sleep by her regular bedtime or at least 30 min later.

If you put her in her room and she's fussy, again leave her in there until she starts to cry, at which point you'll have to do PU/PD.  I would think that, after a few days, she'll go down for that nap, though, you never know with little ones, especially if she's as spirited as my ds.

As for the tea question, I'm not really sure.  We don't do that here.  Do you really give the baby tea?  :?:  If so, what kind?  (this is just for my curiosity, not a BW question. 

I hope this helps!  Some babies can be pretty stubborn!

[Katw]

Hi Georgia,

Thanks for your reply and your help!

It seems all sleeps have gone wrong now and she is finding it hard to sleep for any of them, which I guess is due to be overtired all the time as she's missed so many catnaps!

I'm going to start from today with bringing the catnap back in. She woke at 6am today so went back to sleep at 8.30 but didn't sleep until 8.50, so I put her down at 12 and again no sleep until 12.25pm. Both times I have had to help her to sleep but with sh/pat , is it ok to continue with sh/pat rather than pu/pd, as I have never used pu/pd and sh/pat seems to be working for now?
Will she learn to put herself to sleep again or will I always need to do sh/pat, I am assuming she justs needs a gentle reminder of how to do it?

As for tea, thats her solids she has ie veggies and water! I guess you probably call it dinner or supper!!??? It's definately not a cup of tea!!.....

Thanks for your help and I'm going to make sure to perservere with this sleeping again as I know she can do it!! I just need to find the willpower and stubborness I had from last time!
Thanks again

[GG]

Pat/shush is fine if she responds to it.  Definitely easier than pu/pd in my book!  She may be overtired, like you said, which is why her sleep schedule is off.  Keep at it.

:oops:  Dinner!  Oops.     She can do it a little later if she actually goes down for a nap.