Still having feeding troubles...

[deenz]

Dd2 is now 7 weeks old, and for about 4 weeks now I've been having trouble feeding her.  For a couple of these weeks she also had slow weight gain, but this seems to have come right now. 

She will start the feed ok, but then a couple of minutes later (sometimes up to 5min) will start pulling off the breast, then wanting to go back on.  This progresses to getting upset with crying (I usually burp her when she won't go back on the breast which sometimes helps for a bit), arching her back etc.  She can get extremely upset, looking like she wants to latch on, but not (probably crying too hard).  She likes to be up on my shoulder, which usually calms her right down.

We suspected silent reflux, and she was on Gaviscon Infant for over a week.  However I stopped it yesterday as I could not see any difference.  I don't think it's over-active let-down as she does this usually after the initial let-down.  She feeds pretty well when she's sleepy.  The last feed of the day is usually the worst with the most crying.

Any ideas??  I am going crazy with this stressful feeding time.  It's supposed to be the one time when babies don't cry right?!

Dd2 also still has jaundice, in case this makes a difference.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Hmmm...I'm not too sure... You said the weight gain was slow.  Is it possibly a supply issue?  The flow might actually be too slow for her so she gets impatient, particularly later in the day when your supply is down a bit. And it also still sounds a bit like reflux to me, but I'm not an expert on that...

[deenz]

The last couple of times we've weighed her weight gain has been good - 150g in 5 days each time (bf babies should gain between 100-200g per week). 

Sometimes I do think she's getting angry because she's impatient for more milk.  But other times she's doing this when the milk is flowing (so we end up with milk everywhere if I'm not quick enough with a cloth!).

I suppose there could be more than one issue happening though!

[Lel]

Hi this is my first time on but my 8 week old has developed exactly the same thing this week. Milk flowing well two or three minutes in and starts pulling off and fussing. Can burp him and it improves temporarily then off we go again. Any ideas ? Like you its making feeding time really stressful

[deenz]

OK - I had another thought - I got what I can only presume is my period back at about 5.5wks pp.  This sort of coincides with when the drop in weight gain started, and also dd started waking more frequently at night for about a week.  Do you think this could be related?

Also - is it normal to get your period back that early when ebf'ing?  With dd1 it was at 5.5m, a couple of weeks before starting solids.

Anyway, I don't think that relates to the fussy feeding though.  I'm just trying to see the 'big picture'!

Sorry Lel, I'm obviously no help here!

[annamum]

Denise, period can definitely affect how they nurse. First of all, some say the milk is changing its taste at this time, secondly, your supply goes down a day or two before. Then, your dd is just probably entering a growth spurt at 6 weeks which combined with your period doesn't make things easy for either of you.

Your period really came early, are you sure it is a period? I remember that I bled after delivery on and off for some time but can't be sure how long it lasted. Maybe Stacy will know more about it. And yes, your period can come early, some women just have bad luck  :cry:. And it can be different with each child.

As for your original question, I don't really know what could be a correct answer. It could be that your milk flow slows down and she wants it faster, then gets worked up crying and is unable to calm down so refuses again. Is she maybe a spirited baby? Anna was doing the same but honestly, at that time I knew so little that I didn't know what she was doing and what I was doing either. We eventually survived it. Oh, and the worst were evenings.

Lel, it could be a slow or too fast milk flow, these both can affect how they nurse. You can read more info here: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html

[Lel]

Thanks for the ink to kellymum - very helpful. Still fussing but using some of the tips on that site to persevere ! If I get any further I'll let you know !!

Lel xx

[GraceKellysmom]

As for the reflux, the Gaviscon may not be enough to help or make a difference. In the states, they will prescribe more effective drugs, but I've heard/seen that it is not the case elsewhere. Can you petition to try something else?

And yes, getting your period will lessen your supply. Have you been supplementing at all? It is so unusual to get it back that soon, but I have a friend who has twice now. And low supply will cause the problems you've been talking about, but if it is every feed whether there is milk or not, I am leaning towards reflux.

Reflux takes time to appear, for the erosion to happen. That is why it gradually gets worse. The "she is happy on my shoulder" makes it likely.

And you're definately reading hunger cues, not feeding her before she is hungry or when she is starving? Either makes a fussy baby.

[deenz]

I'm not sure it is/was my period - am having more spotting for the past few days...  someone said (on Pregnancy and Childbirth board) that they also had this, and were told it was just hormonal, and may or may not indicate that I'm ovulating again.

No, I'm not supplementing.

The fussiness seems to be a bit better at the moment...  not for all feeds anyway.  Seems worst when she is tired, but best when she is sleepy (if that makes sense!). 

I think Gaviscon is usually the first 'drug' to try, and if that's not effective then they will try Losec or something like that. 

Not sure about reading the cues right!  I am waking her mostly every three hours during the day, so she may well not be hungry then sometimes.

My mum says I was the same as a baby, and it just 'went away' at about 3 months.  Another friend also had the same...

I am wondering also about the fussiness due to milk slowing down...

You've given me things to think about - thanks.

[priscillawhite]

I am having the exact same problem. Mine little guy is also 7 weeks and I am having a tearful time trying to feed. Just like you, he feeds great in the night but days are difficult and the last feed before bedtime is the absolute worst. He may feed for a minute or two than freaks out and when I put him on my shoulder he starts eating at his hand like he's starving. I even tried a bottle and it had the same result so I know its not my milk. This also started around his second week. He is not sleeping through the night at all and wakes up every 3 hrs and then around 2am he wakes every hour. Please help me !!!!!

[GraceKellysmom]

How often is he eating during the day?

What is he like during his awake time?

Is he easy to get off to sleep or hard?

[Luke-n-Me]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents.  I have a post under the bottle feeding forum re:  Dysphagia/fussy feeders....you may want to read that.  I posted it there (and in colic/reflux) as I bottle fed my first born.  However, I bf DD (2.5 mos) and I started to notice the same symptoms with her a few weeks ago.  Things only got worse as she wasn't emptying my breasts and I ended up with mastitis several times ( I produce tons of milk), so I finally admitted that the same thing was happening with DD.  I had a swallow study done and hers turned out okay, but it wasn't an accurate picture as she really didn't cooperate.  She screamed every time we put the bottle in her mouth and part of the study was done via syringe, which feeding from a syringe is very different from the suck/swallow activity of eating.  I noticed more of a problem with bottles (which is how the study really has to be done), but she really wasn't ever a good nurser, she bobs on and off constantly and basically started to refuse my side that makes extra milk and has a fast flow.  Breastfeeding is more baby-paced than bottle feeding which can make breastfeeding somewhat easier for these babies to tolerate than bottlefeeding (though that's not what it sounds like in this case-your lo screams with BF, mine only screams with the bottle).

Since the study was negative and I knew there were still issues the speech therapist and I decided to try to thicken her bottle to a nectar consistency anyway. There was some improvement, but it wasn't great.  THen, reluctantly, I began to thicken to honey consistency and she's doing great.  It does make breastfeeding tricky, so what I do, is BF for middle of the night feed, first thing in the morning and last thing at night.  All other feeds I either give a bottle of EBM or of formula thickened.  That way you can be sure that they are getting the extra calories they need during the day and aren't waking at night to feed-which will happen as they eat better sleepy, so they will want to wake to eat at night-and just because they didn't get enough cals. during the day!  The pumping can become a pain, but it's worth it for the sake of your baby getting the nourishment that they need.  I have weaned from one feed (by dd gets 6 feeds/day), so I BF 3x's and pump 2x's and give a bottle of formula 1x to give myself a break.  I may end up weaning one more pumping session, but that's personal preference. 

SOrry this is lengthy and it may not even be your issue.  But, just wanted to add what I'm doing, and give details while I had some time (kids in bed).  Let me know if I can help!  I hope things get better!

[deenz]

Thanks for that Nancy.  I had already read your post on the dysphagia.  The thing is that this also happens at night time feeds, but then she's not usually sleepy at night time feeds... mmmm.  Anyway, I am waiting for an appt with a pediatrician, and hopefully they will know more than my regular dr.  The weird thing is that on the Gaviscon her weight gain is much better than without.  Even though it's not making a difference to her feeding behaviour.

Everyone reckons she'll 'grow out of it' at 12 wks - apparently I was the same as a baby...  so it's really not long to wait if that's true (she's 9wks on Friday).