Which problem do I fix first?

[tokarchik]

I have a 5 and a half month little girl who not only takes 35-45 minutes naps throughout the day but she also still wakes 2 times a night. Her last nursing is at 7pm and she sleeps until somewhere between 2am and 3am, where I feed her again and she sleeps until 6amish. I used to be able to put her right back in her crib at 6 where she would sleep again until 7.30am. Now she stays awake from 6. Which problem do I tackle first, the night wakings or her short naps?

After reading tracy's book I think I need to take care of her daytime routine first and then her nights should be easier to correct. Although to fix her night waking it sounds like I should be bringing in her daytime feeds to give her an extra feed during the day as well as using the P.U. /P.D technique.

This I find a little confusing though as she was very successful on the 3 hour easy but since I've tried transitioning her to the more appropriate 4 hour easy for her age her short naps turn the "easy" into more of an "aeasy". If I start using pu/pd to try and lengthen the daytime naps, would I then be taking a step backward by bringing them back to 3 hours to eliminate the night feedings?

Also, I haven't started using pu/pd because after the 45minute nap she always wakes up happy and is talking to herself in her crib for the next 10-15minutes. Do you still try pu/pd if they wake up happy? I have tried staying in her room during nap time to judge when she is coming out of the deeper sleep but she just seems to get annoyed with my hand on her back and then it makes it worse and she actually wakes up cranky and fights me to get up.

Any advice you have to offer on this topic would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Melissa

[Meller]

Great questions I have the same problem with my son, 9 weeks old and won't sleep longer than 45min. And in the evening he won't sleep either untill bedtime. I don't really understand the hand on the back thing..he just wakes up even more when he sees me. I tried the PUPD but I think I did it wrong I rocked him till he fell asleep then put him back down...only worked once!

Mel

[kendallnangie]

I think that the 2 of you actually have seperate problems.

Melissa, This is confusing because on one hand if you can fix at least one of the night wakings, the days will more than likely smooth out, however You could have the same effect going the other route. We chose to get the nights squared away because at the time, it really seemed like a quick fix, fortunately for us it was, we did the wake to sleep method and it was a matter of days before shewas sleeping from 8-6.....I waited a week and did the wake to sleep method to stop the 6am waking.
As far as the short naps are concerned, that is almost always because of overstimulation. How long is she staying up? At 5.5 months I would say that if it is longer than 1.5  - 1 .45 hours the it is too long.  I would try really hard not to force the 4 hour routine. she may not be ready. Don't let it bother you if you go backwards because the key here isn't to stay on track with a book but to do what is best for your baby.
what does you EASY day look like and maybe I can help a little bit more.

Mel, Your LO is a little too young for PU/PD  At nine weeks I would only let him stay up for about an hour. I know that doesn't sound like much but he needs a lot of sleep.  try the pat shhh method for him and see if you have any more luck. the hand on the back I think gives him a sense of presence, so that he doesn't feel abandoned....he may still cry at this point but the key here is to not leave him alone ...try not to give into rocking him to sleep too often because it can become a prop. Comfort him for sure!!! but don't overdo it :wink:
What does your easy look like? I kow that it can still be difficult to say at his young age, but roughly, what is your day like?
By the way It sounds like he is overstimulated as well. cut down his activities, such as too many toys, playmats swing etc....try that for a week and see if it helps.

hope that was helpful to you guys I have gone through all this stuff twice and have wanted to quit I can't count how many times...In the end I am glad I stuck it out!
Angie

[Meller]

Well usually he is up at 7 or 8. He gets tired soon so usually down within the hour. He sleeps for 45min-1hr. he's awake till I feed on the 2 1/2-3hr schedual. Some more wake time then down for a nap. Once again 45min-hr. This goes all day till around 5 or 6, Keep in mind his last nap is usually aound 2-3, he won't go for a nap till I feed him again around 7-8 then he sleeps till DF at 10-11. He wakes around 4-5 to feed then sleeps till morn.

We have put him in his crib for all sleep since day one without rocking just laying him down.

When he is awake he is content and happy. I don't put him in a swing- he does'nt really like it. So usually happy by himself on floor or in bouncy chair. I play with him alot 1 on 1, Or a play gym that hangs over top.When I put him in bed I swaddle cuddle for a couple min. then lay him down. When he is tired he usually settles within 5-10 min, with paci, sometimes I go back in to put it back in. He only gets it at nap and night.

I guess you could say I am not very strict on the EASY. A few things I think are important that I do do are..(correct me if I'm wrong)

-Establish a morn feed
-Have wake time before sleep
-Establish a night feed
-don't rock to sleep
-try to maintain 2 1/2-3hr feed

I know he is still so young so I don't want to rush things. Sometimes I feel like I am. Do you have any suggestions when it comes to flying with him. We cannot feed discretely so I really don't want to nurse him. Do you think a soother would be fine enough? Thanks for all your advise!
Mel

[CanadianMom]

Are you doing a df?  This gets Liam - also 5 1/2 mos to sleep 7 to 7 with a dream feed @ 10:30.
Lisa

[tokarchik]

I tried incorporating the dream feed for 2 nights in a row but then instead of my long 7 hour stretch from 7pm til after 2am Anneka was now feeding at 7pm, DF at 11pm, wanting to nurse again at 2am and then 5 or 6am. It felt like a huge step backward, does anyone think that she would have eventually eliminated the 2am feed if I had have continued the DF for a few more nights in a row?

As far as her easy is concerned this is her day:

Wakes at around 6am (Iwish it could be 7am!) Nurses
Has awake time until almost 8am
Naps for 45 minutes
Wakes then eats cereal, I tried feeding before this nap but she is just too tired.
Awake time until about 10:30 or 11am (sometimes she will have a nursing snack at around 10am but never a full meal)
Naps from 11am for 45mins
Nurses when wakes
Activity time for a long stretch as this is normal the time I'm running errands and picking up her sister from pre-school.
Will sometimes nurse again at around 2pm but often lasts until after nap.
Naps at 3pm, so far I've been successful at combining 2-3 naps at this time, each 35-45 minutes long. She will wake up crying from the first 3pm nap but with a short rock I can usually place her back in her crib and she'll gladly go back to sleep.
Wakes betwen 4pm 5pm, eats a vegetable at around 5.30pm
Bath at 6.30pm and in bed by 7pm.

I know from the sound of her routine it must sound like she just needs to have more awake time like her afternoon stretch but this just hasn't worked during the mornings, once she's up for more than 2hours she gets really miserable and constantly squirming and whining.

Anything anyone could offer?
Thanks Melissa

[CanadianMom]

Melissa

I would try to give her cereal before her am nap.  Liam will take cereal about an hour after he is finished a bottle (he is 20lbs).  Then try putting her down for a nap.  If she wakes after 45 min, I would try to just let her have A time until 10 or close to 4 hours and then nurse her - you will probably find that she is more interested.  It may be that the cereal is too close to the nursing. and then I would give her more cereal at around 11:30 and then try to have her nap.
E - nurse  6 am
A
E 7- 730 cereal
S 8
Y
E10 nurse
A
E 11:30 cereal
A
S 12
Y
etc

I would also incorporate the df - it did take Liam a little bit to get rid of the 2 am feed, but with most things it takes at least 3 days to incorporate something new.
I hope this is helpful.
Lisa

[kendallnangie]

melissa,
I think you might have to try to fix the night first, or treat the 6am waking as another night waking. especially if you want the day to start later. I do not think that she needs more awake time I would guess for it to be less, that is usually what the short naps mean. are you watching for her sleepy signs? I know they can be hard to miss....keep your eye out. It kinda sounds lke that since you think she needs to stay up longer that maybe you have already tried that, and maybe that is why she is getting up early, which is bad because then the vicious cycle starts of feeding before the right times sleeping at the wrong times etc... it is very hard to stop.
Try putting her down sooner for her naps.
Angie