Feeding Trouble, Hungry then cries during feeding!!

[rubysoda]

My baby girl 8 wks had a genarally good first 6 weeks and even sleeps 10-7 but for the last two weeks has been crying for feed (as before) and then screams as if in pain when given the bottle. She'll take an ounce then cry, then another ounce  and cry and it is taking over an hour to get through 5 ounces. We had a great 3 hr routine but now it is all over the place and even her daytime sleeping has been affected. Tried load but to no avail ... gaviscon, colief, infacol, thick milk as I thought she may have a reflux prob ... GP quick to dismiss as she has gained loads of weight and seems otherwise healthy. She just seems to be getting more and more fussy! Any advice?

[teezee]

in my experience with reflux, i would suggest that u perhaps get a second opinion on the reflux, as it could be silent reflux.  my dd did the same as your lo, only i was ebf.  want to eat all the time and cry in pain when she did.  your lo is gaining weight b/c they don't realize that overeating hurts them more, they just want to be soothed the only way they really know how right now - by sucking! my lo was only 5lbs9oz when she was born and trippled her birth weight within the first four months due to reflux! so try again with perhaps a different dr.  i know i had three or four ppl tell me there was nothing wrong with my lo, until one day i couldn't let her cry anymore as she was crying for days and barely eating or sleeping when i took her to emerg and they finally gave her something instead of just sending us home with a pat on the back.  you are her parent, go with your instinct!!!  if u feel something isn't right with your baby - u are probably right!

[rubysoda]

I did think it was a silent reflux but the dr made me feel like I was just jumping to my own diagnosis and i should just leave her be if she seemed otherwise healthy, can the prob get worse the longer it is left?

[Mariek]

Hi Ruby

What flow teats are you using? It might be that you need to move to a faster flow one - she could be getting frustrated if the milks not coming as fast as she'd like (it's like getting slow waiter service in a restaurant!! ).

You can always give it a try and switch back if it doesn't solve the problem.

If you really do think it's a reflux issue then can you ask to see another GP at your practice? The GPs in the UK are really slow when it comes to the issue of reflux (mostly) so you might have to stand your ground if you think that is the problem.

love

[rubysoda]

i moved from level two to level three teats  to see if it made a diff but she just carried on the same, i prayed it may work but it didn't .... what does variable flow mean, could that make a diff? Also with silent reflux do they swallow and cough frequently, even when not feeding? I'm just desp. seeking advice on what others may think or have exp themselves!!

[teezee]

if your lo's prob is in fact reflux the prob will get worse...it started with fussiness for my dd then it was constant crying - everyone said it was colic but i don't think a baby that just has colic cries 20 out of 24 hours in a day and never sleeps until absolutely exhausted!  alecksandria did cough and swallow alot with silent reflux b/c the acid just goes up the throat and they swallow it, and with my own experience with reflux which i get occassionally i do cough to try and get it out of my throat b/c it does burn.  with silent reflux they swallow it before they have a chance to actually throw up, which is why they have greater than normal or average weight gain compared to other babies with reflux.  a few other signs to look for are back arching when feeding, if lo is happier upright and not laying down..actually u may want to try lowering the crib at the foot so it is at a slant, or what i did was let her sleep in her car seat and keep lo upright especially after eating (for a half hour or so).  if u have tracy's book u may want to look up reflux as she gives some ideas as well, if not the reflux board here is a great support and very informative.  hope lo is feeling better soon!
tawnya

[Lee-Stuart-Joshy]

My baby Josh is identical.

I have practically been laughed at by a horrible midwife and a doctor as i thought it may be reflux.

I found no results in any medication either, the only thing that seemed to work was gripe water but now i have cut that out too.

Some days he takes his bottle fine, other times he cries cos he is hungry then screams like he is in pain and i have basically been told to leave him to it.

Although the doc did say to give him LITEERALLY one drip of a squeezed orange into his mouth before a feed as it will loosen his bowel.

I know how you feel about routines, feeding and helplessness and all i can say is that your not alone...  I have no answers unfortunately as i am in the same boat as you, but at least you know there are other babies out there the same.

Lee x

[rubysoda]

Lee, has your baby outgrown the symptons? If so, how long did it take? Do you put the crying down to general fussiness, wind, reflux, colic ....you sound ok abot things now whereas i feel at my wits end with it all. x   :cry:

[ryan's mum]

in my experience the dr's here in the u.k are quick yo put it down to colic as they don't understand reflux.it sounds like silent reflux, and yes it will get worse if not treated.gaviscon can take up to 2wks to see a difference.silent reflux is harder to diagnose,just because you're baby gains weight it doesn't mean it's not reflux (we also had this problem ).the symptoms of silent reflux are what you describe.fussines eating , constant wet burps,gurgling when laid down,hiccups and many more.check out the reflux boards there are links there so you can see the many symptoms and see if you think yourself reflux is the problem.if you do then go with you're instincts and see another g.p if no joy ask to be refered tp a peadatrician.it's a long and hard journey without the help.we are still having problems at 2yrs old although we have battled all the way.it took mus 9mths to be taken seriously.
  you could check this site out.it's very imformative
http://www.infantrefluxdisease.com

[Lee-Stuart-Joshy]

No he has not outgrown it.  He had colic from two weeks to about 12 weeks and then we thought it hd gone.  Now it may be back with avengence but we are not sure, as he is good at getting rid of wind, but he just cries in the evening.

As for reflux, i am so confused.  I have been laughed at by a health visitor saying that there is no such thing as silent reflux although this is the same cow who said that she firmly believed that colic was caused by inadequate parenting from the mother?!!?!!

Colic is quite a well known 'illness' that everyone knows little or nothing about but it does have 'medication' which will apparently work, however we tried everything only to find that gripe water was our only salvation and little salvation at that.

Reflux however is an 'illness' that medical experts know little about and are constantly trying to put down under colic.
This leaves us parents in despair...

I cant get gaviscon or anything on prescription so im left feeling useless and a lot of the time trying to manage happiness, tears and all sorts because i just dont get the support.

Im honestly not ok about it.  I dont think i have post natal depression but im certainly not coping well all the time.

Half the time i dont know what to do with Josh.  We have now cut out his gripe water thinking maybe this is upsetting him, and we also might change his milk - the problem is, its all trial and error.

Im just going to keep on at the doctors and just keep trying to get them to take me seriously whilst trying everything i can to find an answer myself.

Lee x

[krice]

Hi Lee and Ruby,

I can sympathize with your situations.  DS would screem, wince, arch his back, and generally fight during a feed.  The first 7 weeks were 'hell'.  Like your LO's DS continued to gain weight (by leaps and bounds actually) but mealtime was a nightmare.  Have either of you read the Reflux 101 post in the Colic, Reflux & Crying forum?  I checked off all of the 'symptoms' that DS had and then went into my doctors armed with the information.  At first they wanted to do nothing, but I persisted, I wanted something done and was determined that they would do something. 

In the meantime, if you suspect reflux may be your culprit try elevating their matresses and change table pads.  Be sure that after they eat, they 'sit upright' for about 20 minutes afterwards.  I hated to do this because we had to feed more frequently, but smaller meals also helped.

I wish you both the best of luck.  I remember how stressful those times could be.

[ryan's mum]

Lee.
       it sounds as though you having a really rough time and so is you're LO. i was in you're situation for 9mths.our h/v is useless aswell.she always said it was colic and we were wishing ryans first few monhts away just to outgrow it ,we didn't really enjoy it.everytime we saw her or a dr they gave us a different age he woul outgrow it.when our LO nor us could take anymore we booked an appointment with a different dr and demanded a peadatrician referal (they can't refuse )we got as much imformation on reflux and the symptoms ryan had and took it with us.one visit and we got gaviscon prescribed.then ryan was put on zantac but still we had problems.this took us 9mths of suffering and ryan spending most of the first months in a carseat and being pushed in his pram.
       our peadatrician has now admitted he doesn't have the experiance in reflux and the meds to prescribe anything stronger so we demanded a G.I referal.we are currently on a 4mth waiting list to go to Alderhey in liverpool (40miles away )
      i can't wait to ease ryans pain and suffering.
 gaviscon did help us in the beginning but when we cut feeds as he got older he wasn't getting enough gaviscon.have you tried a pharmacy in case you can get it over the counter ?
    wish you both luck , i know how you are feeling when people with lack of experience try and cover their own backs and throw it at us as a first time parent who knows nothing!!!!!!!!!

[ryan's mum]

also our peadatrician said a change of milk wouldn't help.i know ryan is older than you're lo's but he even told us on our last visit just to stop giving him milk altogether,"he doesn't need it " when i get my h/v nagging at me to give him more.give him milk shekes ,add milk to his foods, he's not getting enough. ryan only drinks one bottle in the morning and he enjoys it so i'm not depriving him of that. all i can say is do what you have to ,to make them comfortable.i did all the accidental parenting but in time it has corrected.i used to rock ryan to sleep evry nap and bedtime.to this day i still stay in the room and stroke his head till he sleeps and if he is really restless i share a bed in his room with him.he only needs comforting.

[Lee-Stuart-Joshy]

Thats really ressuring to hear you know.  Its heartbreaking seeing him like this. 

I am definately going to go tomorrow armed with lots of info to throw back in her face as soon as she makes a ridiculous outcry.

I am really going to try to get something done because it just is not fair.

Josh sleeps on his tummy (so apparently im classified as allowing a baby to sleep knowing that he is at a high risk of cot death, hence a bad parent), anyway he cant sleep on his back.  He used to when he was teeny with the matress elevated but we've found that his tummy is great cos he just brings up wind without even trying and gets a good nights sleep.

Since cutting out the gripe water, he seems to be taking his bottles better and still bringing wind up - conincidence or a good day - im not sure.
I just keep thinking that if my poop (sorry to be crude) looked how Josh's does (dead runny - sorry again) then i would have tummy pains too, so i really think i might just change his milk to put my mind at ease.  Its worth a try...

I keep getting told not to worry and that he will grow out of it and that by the time he goes onto solids, he will be much better - lies?  Or again - do they not have a clue and just continue to palm me off with absolute crud?!

[Lee-Stuart-Joshy]

And its also good to know that other people rock their bubs to sleep for naps and eve!!!!!!!!!  I am not a failure 

[rubysoda]

I too am now starting to just think "it must be me" but something is def not right. I will push again with docs and stay in touch about wot they say, its her strange swallowing and terrible hiccups that really make me belive there is a reflux issue...that along with screaming during feeds...just worried she may get long-term damage if acid is coming back up...i wish someone could help us!!

[Luke-n-Me]

Have you read my announcment at the top of this forum Dysphagia/Fussy feeders......., see what you think, the problem sounds familiar to me, not only did DS#1 have the problem, now my DD#2 has it (2.5 mos)!!!  It's more common than you think!

[mattandcindy]

First-Nancy congrats on baby #2. I have been away awhile and didn't know you had #2.
It DEFINITELY sounds like Silent Reflux. Abigail has silent reflux and I am an emergency room nurse and it took me 9 weeks to convince the doctors to take me (a nurse!) seriously. You need to be persistent. The weight gain means nothing. The only thing it means is that you are a good mother and persistent and conscientious about feeding him. The doctors tried to give me the same story but I just kept going back and changing doctors until someone took me seriously. Now (at almost 9 months), the Pediatric GI specialist has told me that Abigail has one of the worst cases of reflux he has seen. So obviously the general peds don't know much!
A really good website is http://www.infantreflux.org it helped me tremendously when I was trying to arm myself with info for the docs.
Abigail was finally diagnosed at 9 weeks and continues on meds to this day for reflux. The doctor says she is nowhere near weaning off her meds yet. And she had all the same symptoms as your LO.
Sorry to hear you are struggling with it. You can PM me anytime with questions, complaints, rants, etc.
Good Luck at the doctor tomorrow!