so many questions so little answers!

[travis's mum]

My DS is now 4 months and has been doing 45 min naps since 3 months so from that age I decided to work towards 4hr easy. To get to 3.5 was quite easy, but getting past that is causing a bit of bother :?  Also we had a problem with night wakings as I tried to drop the 4am feed ( i thought it was habitual) turns out he was really hungry. Everything seems disorganised especially at night time.

I decided recently to drop the dream feed as it was suggested to me that if it is after 11 it becomes a night waking in it self my DS still wakes twice a night to feed :shock: . Shouldn't he be sleeping through or at least on one feed a night?

During the day I extend his naps by going in and gently patting him when he wakes some times he goes back to sleep sometimes it can take over half an hour to get him back to sleep

To be honest I can't work out what would be the best method and feeding schedule at night, dremfeed or no dream feed? and if so at what time should be his last feed because if its just before he sleeps he's not hungry till 11.30ish.

He is bottle fed he drinks up to 7 bottles in the day becuse he refuses to go without the 4am feed :shock: . He uses a dummy so go to sleep at nap times but not at night. And even the odd time when he does, he spits it out when he's asleep. Oh yes and angel textbook last time I checked.

E-7am (Wake) 3 oz doesn't eat to much still full from last feed)
A-
S-8.45 (whinges alot have to distract h9im by singing to keep him up till    this time) battling 45 min naps

E-10.30 but at times gets hungry earlier because of last feed being so small)5/6oz
A
S- 12 ( not always succesfull of keeping him awake if only had a short sleep will get VERY grumpy by 1.15min A time

E-2. (5/7oz)
A-
S-3.30/3.45 Depending on earlier naps

E-5.30 (5/7oz)
A-
s-6.30 (sometimes not always posible sometimes we go for a walk with the buggy just to relax and conserve energy for bath)
A-7pm bath
E&S 7.30/8 but usually 7.45 drinks 3/4oz

E-12 (wakes alone 5oz)
E- 4/5 am (wakes alone 5oz)

hope this is enough info would love some help with the schedule try to keep activity time reasonably low key but listen to his cues (moans :roll: ) use activity mat sometimes singing, tummy time and back time.

Ps would prfer it if he woke at 8am any ideas?

Thanks for taking the time to read all this.

[corrina01]

I am on the same schedule as you 3.5 hr EASY.  Don't try to keep him up if he is tired. My DD is now 5 months and I was battling 45 mins nap time from 3 months, but my DD sleeps so easily now.  I don't have suggestions for night feeding as my DD dropped this when she was about 3 months.  Heres my schedule

E   7.00am  Feed 4.5/5oz
A
S   Between 8.30 and 8.45am for about 1.45 or 2hrs depending on when she goes to bed

E   10.30am  Feed  5/6oz
A
S   Between 11.45 and 12.15 she sleeps for 2hrs then this is her best sleep

E   2.00pm  Feed normally 6oz
A
S  3.30pm  Sleep for 1.30

E  5.00pm  Feed normally about 4/5oz
A  Bath
E   6.30pm Feed 2oz
S  7.00pm

DF at 10.00pm  normally 4/6oz

Wakes at 6am  I put her dummy in she goes back to sleep till 7am

I was struggling to keep my DD awake for 1.15hr at 4 months.  She can now be awake from 1.15hr to 1.30hr. 

I think he is overtired and will only do 45 naps, so put him to bed earlier.  This worked out for me, just read his cues and when he is tired just put him to bed and maybe he will drop his night feeds soon, as he gets some more sleep during the day.

Good luck   

[Deb_in_oz]

I decided recently to drop the dream feed as it was suggested to me that if it is after 11 it becomes a night waking in it self my DS still wakes twice a night to feed  . Shouldn't he be sleeping through or at least on one feed a night?

what time were you giving the dream feed?  the aim of the DF is to feed between 10pm and 11pm (your choice of time) with the hope that instead of 2 feeds between 11pm and 7am you will end up with 1 feed in the night and eventually none int he night (there is no way to predict when that will happen and it is true that the Df is not for everyone) Tracy states not to give the DF after 11pm because then it is itself a nightfeed. eventually you want all your feeds to be between 6/7am and 11pm and then when DF gets dropped they will all be in the 12+ hour period (ie 6:30am - 7:30pm)

there really is no "should" at this age - 4 mo is still considered a reasonable age to need a night feed and without the DF it is possible to end up with your current scenario for a while longer.

i suggest you try the DF at 10:30 (or 11pm if you/Dh are willing to stay up) and see if he continues the 4-5hr period of sleep which would mean you would end up with a feed between 2-3am or so.  this way he is likely to then make it to 6-7am ready for a morning feed.

the aim would be that over the next few weeks or even month or 2 depending on DS  :wink:  the 2-3 am feed woudl push out further and eventually drop.

S-8.45 (whinges alot have to distract h9im by singing to keep him up till this time) battling 45 min naps

i really suggest you go by his cues rather than trying to "keep him up" - if he is tired and you keep him up longer to stick to a timetable all that happens is he gets overtired and sleeps worse / 45 min nap (although 45 min nap can happen without overtiredness, by your description it sounds like he is ready for 1st nap earlier)  It is very common for babies to have a shorter A time for the first A period - it is almost like an extension of night sleep, so at 4  mo if he is tired between 1hr 15 - 1hr 30 (or whatever the timing was) i woudl get him to bed so that you act "in his window"

would prfer it if he woke at 8am any ideas?

to be honest, it is hard enough getting most babies to sleep until 7am (see how many of them wake for the day between 530- 6:30am...) and i have no experience with late starters beyond 7/7:30 so not sure if there is any trick to that - i think it comes down to how hard you want to push the issue - since he is not sleeping thorugh the night i don't really think it is an issue worth exploring IMO because i would focus first on getting the night feeds reduced over time and see where he ends up naturally and then address morning start time.

i think that it sounds like he is not 100% ready to change to a 4 hr EASY and i woudl just gradually adjust - he sounds like he could benefit from some feeds being 3, 3.5 or 4 hrs depending on the time of day.

[travis's mum]

Thank you so much ladies for your speedy response, I really appreciate it. I was under the impresion that the reason for the 45 min naps was because he was going to sleep too early therfore I needed to extend his awake time in order to extend his sleep time.  I was wondering in fact just today how I spent the first 3 months trying to look out for his tired cues and get him to bed on time only to egnore them at 4 months :?

It's all a bit confusing really. But I think I will start putting him to bed when he starts fussing.  And i will try to give him his last bottle at 6.30 pm so that he is hungry for his dream feed at 10.30 (any later is just inconvenient for us). We'll see how we get on from there.

Thanks again ladies lets see how I get on.

[corrina01]

Keep us updated on how your DS is getting on 

[Deb_in_oz]

hi travis's mom

the thing about EASY is that you really have to adapt it to your lo/situation, so sometimes you try one tactic (ie extending A time) and when you see how the results are (after at leats a few days or weeks depending on lo) you decide whether it was the right path for you.  you might find that you can extend the A times later in the day, but not that first one for a while so you work with what your lo needs.  see if following his cues results in a better morning for you.

i think we each have to find our instincts and trust them when implementing changes - as we are the ones at home with lo we can observehow things are in reality... when other members / moderators offer advice it is obviously all done in theory based on our previous experience / knowledge of EASY, etc but there are so many factors thatplay into what wil work in each case...

A time is probably the biggest pain in the butt for most of us as it is such a case of trial and error - as many kids as there are with the same problem (short naps) there are many variations on the "correct" answer - some need to lengthen A time, others need to shorten it  :?  and only thorugh trial and error can you really figure out what works for you. 

let us know how it goes

[travis's mum]

Once again thanks ladies, and thanks debinoz for your advice.  Yesterday we had to put it down for a really bad day :cry:  after extending his awake time too much he slept for 45min woke up very upset and was almost imposible to but down to sleep, this continued throughout the day. Even to the point where he just refused to nap and I had to bring him down stairs and give in.

I guess this is what you mean by seeing what works for us, you didn't need sharp observation skills to see that extending his awake time so much is not the way to go :wink: .

We didn't manage the last bottle at 6.30 instead it was 7.30 (to help get him to sleep :oops: ) therefore he woke at 12, and then 3 had to give him the dummy he slept till 5 gave him another bottleand he slept till 8. But I am exhasted this morning.

One last question, do you think if he wakes during the night after only 3 hrs after his last feed, I should feed him or offer him the dummy and see if he wakes again?  I thought it was a bit unreasonable to feed every 3 hrs (especially at night) at his age.

Tomorrow we are going to the London for a week to see my family I hope we don't steer to much off track.  My aim is to feed him the same time every day (I'm going to use your times corina1 as they were very similar to mine and mean you get the dream feed on time) and bedtime routine same time every day. Any tips for travel?

Once again thanks ladies.

[corrina01]

I would try giving him his dummy and see if he settles, if not give him a feed, try to wean him off at least one feed during the night.

Sorry I have no tips for travelling as my family live locally.