co sleeping arrangement change...any one else have this?

[Baby Chase's Mom]

has anyone gone from co sleeping with their baby to putting their baby in a crib / cot?

If so, can you shed some insight on how to go about it correctly....I have read Tracy's book, but wondering how others managed through this difficult time.

[teezee]

just these past few weeks i have started putting her in her crib to nap, and since yesterday started putting her in her crib to sleep at night...this took a very long time! alot of pu/pd but it eventually worked - like a charm i may add - she slept all the way til her dreamfeed which hasn't happened in a very long time. i did get advice from one of the mod's on this site that i should do it all at once day time and night sleep but i couldn't bare doing it all at once - it was alot for me to take also   :cry:  and she was going to sleep ok until i switched the night sleeping and had to do pu/pd FOREVER it felt like but she eventually went to sleep on her own.  we have alot of family out of town so dd has to be comfortable sleeping in her bed but in other place too...good luck...let me know how u guys are doing with it!

[Baby Chase's Mom]

Sounds like you have had a difficult time too, so happy to hear that things are working well for you now. 

I think I am confused with the pu/pd method as I was trying that with my ds yesterday, and we both were frustrated and crying.  How exactly did you do it with your dd? 

Thanks for sharing, it means a great deal to me.  I am trying to do too many things at once and getting nowhere!

[teezee]

a big lesson i learned is do things one thing at a time - your lo will be too confused is rush and do everything at once!  with sleeping i would go through her routine - put her in her crib and let her watch her mobile (had to get her to like her crib again so i let her have some A time in there during the day too), take her out and swaddle her with one arm out, give her paci and teddy bear (she just started with the bear and loves how soft he is always rubs her face with him!), rock her and sing to her for about 2 min (sometimes she is drowsy sometimes not)(in the beginning always drowsy tho) and kiss her forhead and put her in her crib.  then i leave the room, if she starts crying i listen for the 'mantra' cry and general fussing - i only go in if she sounds like she absolutely needs me (really escalated panic cry) and then i'll go in and try to soothe her in her crib ie tell her it's ok, put a hand on her belly (won't sleep on belly so can't put it on back)(it's very hard not patting or rubbing - i have to re-learn things as well here!). if she doesn't calm down with that then i pick her up until she stops crying (been trying to learn not to pat or sway back n forth and just stand there - sometimes i will walk around tho) when she stops crying i immediately put her back down ALL THE WAY to the mattress and put my arms by my sides even if she starts crying again then i will pick her up again until she falls asleep i do this.  and usually after the first couple time of pu she gets really outraged and after five min of crying while holding her she'll calm n go to sleep. and don't under any circumstances make eye contact - i always have my eyes closed and just peek at her so she doesn't think it's play time.  it is tons of hard work - first night took me over 2 hrs but the second night she went down no problem at all - woke up almost 2 hrs later and took her a half hour of pu/pd and she was asleep until her dreamfeed and only woke up once after that!! drastic improvements from the last few months in just two days!  sorry so long but i hope i have helped some!  let me know how things are progressing if this is what u choose to focus on!

[Baby Chase's Mom]

Tawnya,

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. 

i will give this a shot and see how i make out.  did you do this for naps as well?  the problem with naptime and this is that following EASY, by the time he will get settled to rest, its time to eat again and it screws up everything!!!

the hardest part I have is hearing him cry, it breaks my heart because he gets so outraged.  i feel like he is going to hate me or think i am abandoning him. 

will keep you posted.

[Baby Chase's Mom]

I just re read what you had written earlier and realize that you ARE doing naps as well....sorry about the question in the last post.

I forgot to mention about the PU/PD method that I had attempted that for nap time a day or so ago.  I tried but didn't follow through because his screaming was too much. (I will have to get over that...it's just that he is such a passive baby and so relaxed, that it is so hard to hear him cry)   But what I had been doing was when he was screaming in the crib, I would pu and then let him relax, pd and even before he was fully on the mattress he started screaming again.  How long do i wait to pick him up again?  (you mentioned long enough to put your hands by your sides, right?)  So then this will continue until he tires himself out, right?  Does it matter if it is hard crying, or do I just continue with it?  How long is too long to continue this, perhaps he cries for two hours or three and is not tired...keep trying?  Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be sure I am doing this correctly before I attempt again. 

Thanks for all of your help...I am so glad that I posted, I don't feel so alone with this issue.

[teezee]

if dd is crying that hard as soon as i start putting her back down, i let her lay there for a couple seconds and do it all over again...and again...and again.  if it is running into feeding time i would imagine that u would feed lo and relax for a min and then try again.  i have been really fortunate in that dd has gone down for naps pretty well and we don't have a long 'initiation' to nap time...until today...after she was asleep for half hour woke up screaming and did pu/pd for about half hr and she slept another hour.  don't know if i mentioned this but make sure u stay in the room until lo is fast asleep.  after they are overtired as they are falling asleep their bodies jolt and this wakes them up (especially if it is long past naptime and they are overtired), as they fall deeper into sleep the jolts subside and then they can sleep on their own.  as long as ur lo doesn't mind having your hand on him i'd leave it there so u can try to keep his body a little more stable and still when the jolt happens.
i learned EASY is a guideline - i too have stressed about getting dd off track.  but if for a few days it has to be AEASY or whatever it ends up being than so be it!  go with the flow!  just make sure you are not nursing to sleep, and if he does gently wake him up for 5 min or so and then try putting to sleep again.  i know, i know, it is very tempting to put lo down as they are already sleeping - but u really don't want to break any more bad habits.

the crying bit has been hard on me also cuz dd is such a happy girl but u have to realize that u are not abandoning your lo and that by doing pu/pd u are showing your lo that u are there and that he can do this on his own...eventually  n that's why u have to stay in the room until he is completely asleep.
if u don't follow through than lo will realize this and keep crying until u cave - so if u start - see it through to the finish or it will be even more confusing for him and more frusterating for u.  the crying sometimes continues for what seems like forever but once he realizes that u aren't abondoning him, and he feels confident and secure he will go to sleep.
hope i answered your questions - good luck again - hope to hear from u soon!  :wink:

[Baby Chase's Mom]

I owe you the biggest thank you!  You have saved my sanity!   Sorry this one is long again!

My husband and I decided that this weekend we were going to try the pu/pd method this weekend as he is off.  After getting your last post, we decided to try it for ds nap this afternoon.  OMG - It WORKS!  It took Chase approx 30 min to settle, it was hard and I think I did it right.  I didn't make eye contact like you mentioned and if he was quiet crying I walked away from the crib but stayed in the nursery.  If it was hard crying I would pick him up, not say anything (is that ok to not speak?) and stay in one place and hold him, once he stopped a bit, I would lay him back down.  I didn't count how many times i picked him up either, perhaps I should have?  My husband came with me to offer moral support, it is sooo hard to hear him cry!  And my husband sat back in the rocking chair and was going to take over if he needed to....but I DID it! 

We are planning on trying it tonight for night sleeps as well.....do you suggest this?  I know that you mentioned you started with naps and then did the nights and that a mod had mentioned to do it all at once....from your perspective, should I try this tonight too? 

I feel like the happiest mother on earth now....if only i could get him to nap for more than 45 min I will be laughing! 

Thanks ever sooo much!

[teezee]

i'm soo glad i could be of some help!!  now your lo is doing better and mine is getting crazy on me...today i felt sharp little edges on the bottom of her mouth and would not go down at all for her catnap...kept opening her mouth extra wide for the soother and chewed it - thought she was gonna swallow the stupid thing!
anyway - just a word of warning from what i've read whoever puts lo to sleep should be the one to do pu/pd...so it's consistant.  i think it's totally awesome u have a dh that offers so much support!  on second thought i guess if he's just in the room for support, and lo doesn't see or hear him it probably would do no harm, and probably is better for u... 
if i were u i would do it all at once day and night time sleep - it's probably the easiest transition for u, dh and lo.  i didn't do it all at once b/c i didn't have a supportive dh around like u do who will get up and have patience in the middle of the night if needed - so with that i would go for it girl!...my dh would say she wants to play and play with her at ungodly hours of the morning...
you are supposed to go in and try to settle in the crib first - don't know if that's what u did or not?...put your hand on him and speak gently if needed. You can talk in a very soft, soothing voice to settle ds if needed if he's that worked up, but if he didn't need u to, than that is great too.
anyway, feels wonderful to be able to make these great strides doesn't it?!  and u should be very proud of yourself - u did a great job!  just don't get discouraged if you have to take a few steps back from time to time.
btw - my lo has been getting up today after 45 min (usually a two hour napper twice a day) but she slept better last night so i don't know if she woke b/c she didn't need anymore sleep or just couldn't soothe herself b.c her teeth were bugging her. i went in and did pu/pd with her...that's when they generally go through a sleep cycle and probably not able to soothe themselves back to sleep...how much does your lo sleep at night?  is he happy when he wakes from a nap or does he seem like he needs more rest after just a short while?? how old is your lo? hope your night goes as great as this afternoon!!!!                 

[Baby Chase's Mom]

It is hard when they only nap for 45 min!  I can totally relate to the teeth coming in, poor lo!  Chase is chewing his soother too!  How many teeth does she have?

So far the night is going well.  We were out a birthday party for my neice and got home a little after his regular bedtime, he fell asleep for the five minute car ride home, but woke up after we arrived in.  I still can't seem to break the habit of feeding him before bedtime.  (He doesn't fall asleep on the breast, thankfully) Next, I put him into his crib, did pu/pd for about 5 minutes, and he was out very quickly.  Likely very exhausted   He has had his df at 10 (did it this early as he is notorious for eating every two hours so I didn't want to get in there too late to do it and have him already awake) and that's where I am at right now.  Will have to post tomorrow morning to let you know how it goes.  Thanks again for the support and advice!

Chase is 5 months old last week and because we had been co sleeping up till tonight, he would eat every two hours but would be in bed with us from 7:30 - 7:30 am.  Tonight will be the first night he will be away in his crib all night...will miss him, but this will be much better for him down the line. Lately he seems very unhappy after his nap, like he needs more rest.  Perhaps tomorrow I will put him down for his nap and if he wakes at the 45 min mark, I will go do PU/PD with him and see how that goes.
How about your lo?  You said her naps were going great up until today (1.5 - 2hrs?) when does she do her catnap? 

Here I have written so much again...sorry:)
I'll write you tomorrow if I am not too exhausted:)  LOL

[teezee]

unfortunately she doesn't have any teeth yet, they just seem to be popping up and down off and on - today a felt a little sharp edge in her mouth but that's it, she ended up having a bit of a fever tonight and was soo miserable - poor lo! and of course when she's not feeling well there's no one like her mommy  :wink: she would cry whenever i was out of her sight!  anyway she skipped her catnap today but usually she's up from her afternoon nap around 4 and eats then goes down for catnap between 5 and 5:30 and sleep til 6 or so, and goes to bed 7:45 or 8--that's the goal anyway.  have u ever gone to the june/july post on the boards here?  there are some really nice ppl alot of times going through the same things with their lo's..it's nice talking to ppl who understand first hand what u are going thru    her naps have been great the last month and a half or so - mostly 2 hrs - nice cuz mommy can get a few things accomplished with her sleeping so nicely - until today - let's just hope that this passes tho!  i have started feeding her cereal again (stopped b/c of bad gas, not sleeping at night) and after 2 days she's gassy again so i think we'll just stick to the veg's and fruits now.  have you had any probs with solids if u have started them???  poor girl - gas, teething - what a horrible world :!:
dd does not sleep well on car rides either - once in awhile she'll fall asleep but usually she's just too nosy!
y do u have to feed him before bedtime??  i was in the 'habit' of cluster feeding dd in the evening mostly because when she was diagnosed with reflux the doctor said to feed her smaller meals more frequently, which i did but i don't think i needed to continue as long as i did b/c the meds were helping and reflux was under control.  actually, just this past week i stopped feeding her every two hours in the evening, and it seems to work better for her.  i think she takes more in, and it sustains her longer through the night - she hasn't been waking in the night half as much as she used to    so maybe after u do pu/pd for a little while and that gets sorted out u will have a new baby mission!...or u could start now spreading it out a little bit (15 min or so) at a time so he doesn't really notice - myself i went cold turkey and cut out a feeding and she was cool with it maybe urs will be too?!
btw i think i have written more than u in every post so don't say ur sorry lol so many ppl on the boards have helped me tremendously - just feels good to be able to have done the same thing for someone else!!  it says ur from sw ontario? where from if u don't mind me asking...hope ur ds has made it thru the night - at least most of it!

[Baby Chase's Mom]

How was your dd last night?  Did the fever go down and she have a good rest? 

I left off at 10 pm.  things were good until 11:30 at which time I went up and offered the paci and did pu/pd for about 10 minutes...not bad.  Went straight back to sleep until 2:00am~!   I couldn't believe it!!!  At two I went in and offered the breast, which he took the full one.  And I put him back down after a diaper change...No pu/pd!!!  Was fantastic.  I had noticed that his little arms were very chilly, so I changed him into an undershirt with long sleeves.  (Currently we are using undershirts, sleepers and a sleeping bag called gro bag)  Well the gro bag doesn't have sleeves.  Next thing i know it's 5:30!!!!  Wow...so I go in and pick him up not sure what I was going to do but then felt his arms...they felt like ice.  everything else on him was warm.  I wasn't sure what to do, my dh thought maybe bringing him to bed this one last time and going to get a heater this morning might work.  So I brought him to bed with us at 5:30 and he slept until 8:30.  My dh got this heater this morning and we are set for tonight, so I hope I haven't screwed up our hard work. 
Naptimes today are still relatively short...although the PU/PD time is drastically shortened...I CAN'T believe it!  he napped this morn from 9:30 to 10:30 and then again at 12:20 to 1:30 (getting better) Ihad to go in at 1:00 and do PU/PD with him once.   
EASY is becoming better I have to say, if I can just get him to work on napping a bit longer.  The whole put your hand on him before he wakes up at the 45 min mark doesn't really work for me.....he senses I am there and wakes right out of a deep sleep.  Plus I would like to get it down to only three naps a day, 2 good ones and a catnap like you have done with your lo. 

I have another question for you.....when you do PU/PD during the night, my biggest concern is that he may be hungry....like last night at 11:30, I knew it wasn't hunger because he had his df at 10, so that was too soon to eat again....so he went back down till 2.  At 2, I simply just fed him and assumed that he was hungry....do you suggest to do PU/PD at that time as well? 

I will definitely go on the june/ july forum...I didn't even know there was one...can't wait to try it out.  BTW, I am from Kincardine. 

Long winded again....curious to hear how your day has been going....

Thanks a million again

[teezee]

dd didn't want to sleep at all last night although after i gave her advil she slept fine - had her dream feed and then slept til 5 and then slept til 8:30 so i am a happy mommy all in all!  today was ok - naps have been horrible the last few days, i'm sure it has to do with the teething but we're just winging it, and hoping they come in soon.
 congrats on your night!  seems like your lo has easily adapted!  i'm soo happy for all of you 
 his naps seem to be better than when we first started talking, which is good - rome wasn't built in a day - even small steps are great strides for your lo!
 if ds is taking a full feed at 2 than he may still need that feeding at his age.  if u can somehow get more calories (bm) in him during the day he may cut out that feeding by himself.  i have started pumping and giving her an extra ounce or so after she feeds (i read it somewhere here on the boards) since she hasn't been eating as well (again, due to teeth i am sure), she's just too nosy and doesn't like to not see what is going on everywhere so i found topping her off a little after a feeding has helped.  i don't recall if u had started solids yet but i have been giving her a little bm in a cup and she just started drinking with a straw (it's so cute and she's soo proud when she does it    ) and that's how i get a little more milk in her also to wash down whatever she's eating.  it seems to be working well as she has been sleeping soo much better than she has for months now!  like u said though, if u just fed him and he's getting up than u r pretty sure he's not hungry do pu/pd, if he starts not taking a full feed when he gets up at two than i would start doing pu/pd then too...do remember he will have a growth spurt at six months - and some have it early (like my dd..) and will probably start getting up in the night for more food - but i do suggest trying to get more in the daytime, and spreading out feedings to 3 and a half to 4 hours at least so feedings will sustain him longer.
  hope the night goes well for you hun!...and tell Chase i am very proud of him!

[teezee]

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html

someone gave me this link on here yesterday...i think u may find it useful - it helped me understand things a little bit better as far as how dd was eating/should be eating/about adding solids etc.

[Baby Chase's Mom]

Thanks for the link, I have read it and find it very interesting....will keep it to refer to.  Any teeth thru yet??

It helps sooo much to have someone to talk to.  Yesterday wasn't too bad, his afternoon nap got longer to 1 hour and 15 min.  Getting better. 
Today has been good, except that we had a family function this aft that screwed up his naptime...it's hard to keep it consistent all the time around the holidays.  This morning the nap was good....about an hour and then he woke, went in and did PU/PD for 35 min!!! but he went back to sleep for another hour.  (Question for you....if I continue to do PU/PD with his short naps, eventually might he get to the point where he just continues to sleep for the two hours as he should be? You're lucky that your dd has been napping for that long!  (well up until recently, but getting teeth is understandable!)  lots of love to the lo!!!

Chase has also been going 4 hours between feedings now....(it was my mistake before with the two hr feeds during the day, as I kept pushing the food on him before..causing him to snack....I was worried about weight gain.  (who am I kidding he is 23 pounds, 9 pounds 3 oz at birth) anyhow, now he eats big every 3.5 to 4 hours)  I haven't started him on solids yet...no pablum.  My dh is a walking allergy and asthma case and the doctor said to wait until he is 6 mos  to avoid possible allergies.  Although I am pretty excited to start solids with him!

Another question for you....if I feed Chase for the last time at 6:00 pm and he is going 3.5 to 4 hrs between feeds, at what time do you think I should df him?  I would think 9?  just checking....trying to make sure I understand this whole thing...

i hope your day went well and that she is feeling a bit better:)

[teezee]

nope, no teeth through yet - still just very white under the gum ... but they are red and swollen today too, and as much as u could tell she was uncomfortable she was in a GREAT mood all day too!  She even napped for her usual two hours(no catnap tho - but i can live with that) and went to bed pretty good.  we had company all day long - very tiring for all of us - but she loves all the attention!
  ideally that's what is supposed to happen - they learn to soothe themselves through the sleep cycle transition and u don't need to go in and assist using pu/pd.  is your lo going to sleep when he first shows sleep signs?  rubbing eyes, yawning, etc? (of course when there are fam functions, etc it doesn't always happen - but for the most part, most days?)  just want to make sure he isn't overtired going down for naps cuz that can throw things off for u also.
You certainly have a big boy on your hands!!!!!!!!  dd was 5lbs 9oz (just a l'il peanut) and is now i'd guess about 16lbs or a little more - will find out tomorrow at the doctor's...
 if ur dh has allergies, maybe u should wait even a bit longer to start solids?.  it is alot of fun watching them try things for the first time and everything, but would it be better for him?  if u do decide to at six months, just go very slow (and start with cereals) - but i am sure u know that - sorry.
they say to give the dreamfeed no later than 11 - sometimes i cheat and go with 11:30 or so just so she'll sleep a bit longer through the night.  it's supposed to be earlier so it doesn't create habits of night waking.  as long as he's not waking up before for a feeding i think 10 would be ok, depending of course on what time u go to sleep yourself.  if he can make it til 10:30-11 and u are up than do that.  either way, whatever works for u!
  so since naps are getting better, has he been waking up happier?? being able to stay awake longer without getting tired and cranky?
it's so awesome to hear everything's going well still - your dh must be happy too!..i'm glad for you that he is 'on board' with the baby whisperer methods and is there to support u!..my mom has finally started to understand that this is the way i'm going to raise my child - and that it's working for us..now i just have to convince dh, he's just a big softie when it comes to dd and always caves in...ttyl

[Baby Chase's Mom]

sorry i didn't write yesterday, hardly had time to even look on here, let alone do any posts

Thank you for all of your advice and I really have enjoyed chatting with you.  You have helped our family sooo much.  Chase is back to the happy go lucky little guy I have.  It is nice to be following a routine these days and nice that he is able to fall asleep on his own.

I would like to join that June / July forum you mentioned but I can't find the link for it, where do you go? 

I am getting Chase weighed today too, would love to hear how much your dd weighs now and when her teeth finally emerge!  Thanks again for everything and feel free to email me anytime.

[teezee]

u can find it in the easy forum...or if u look at posts since your last visit u should be able to find it in there.  all is well at dr appt dd is 15lbs 6oz - still small in comparisson to your lo!  teeth have made a couple little slits in the bottom gums but still no sharp edges - soon i imagine though...can't wait to get back to our normal routine - although it's not too bad now considering.  anyway, again, glad i could help and feel free to email me anytime also and i will see u around the boards i am sure!  :wink: