night waking

[clairejrogerson]

hi..this is all a bit new to me so will try not to ramble. I have 15 week old (second daughter) and she has since approx 6 weeks old, been waking for 4am feed. this is STILL happening. she is on 4-hour EASY, again approx,  as the routine is often disrupted by school runs with my eldest daughter so very hard to stick to as a result. but I do my best. her naps have shortened as seems to be normal at this age to 45 mins and am having a very hard time lenghening them as my 3-year old needs me too and so cannot stay with the baby to soothe her for 20 minute periods. so her day naps are often short or disturbed by having to get in the car and she is still waking for the 4am feed. this week started her on baby rice, which she loves, but no sign of the 4am feed dropping. she feeds well in the day and is like clockwork on the 4-hour mark for the feeds. am at a loss now. I find it impossible to straighten out because I have to interrput her routine frequently to pick up/drop off her sister. help! any suggestions?? am at my wits' end.

[danna]

I don't really have an answer for you, but wanted you to know that you are not alone.  I am in the exact same boat as my 1st dd is 4 1/2 and in preschool.  I find that driving her to and fro negatively impacts dd #2's ability to really nap.  She gets lulled to sleep a bit too early b/c of the motion and it's making naps a nightmare.  She'll only nap for 35 ins.  Occasionally, I can get her to extend the nap by resettling her, but that is touch and go.  My other dd needs me too, and I can't stand around and resettle dd #2 for 25 mins.   

Eventually, dd#2 will be able to stay awake longer and her naps will get longer.  I've done my best and am now just deciding to accept what I've got. 

By the way, have you tried "topping off" your lo right before her bed time?  I generally stick to the 4 hr easy for my 5+ mos old dd, but she is hungriest in the evening so I feed her around 6 (a small bottle 2-3 oz) and cereal/fruit.  Then at bedtime, 7:30 ish, I nurse her (in another room so that she is not being "nursed to sleep").  My lo also gets a dreamfeed at 11pm.  As a result, she usually sleep thru til 7am.  Do you do the dreamfeed?  Have you considered topping her off before bed?

Best of luck to you.

[Meg's Mom]

Sorry you have such trouble, can you post your schedule and dc#2 school run ...maybe we can help or try  :?

[mommyof2boys]

I too have two little ones--although school runs aren't an issue as my eldest is not yet 3.  However, I still can't stay with the baby for 20 minutes while he's running around, so ...

When my lo (now 4 months) wakes at the 40 minute mark, I run up there and stick the paci in.  Sometimes it takes 7x, sometimes 1, but he almost always goes back to sleep within 20 minutes.  I wake him when he's been in bed for two hours (although I'll get him up earlier if he slept another whole cycle after the paci intervention but falls short of 2 hours). My goal is to teach him that its still nap time and that he won't be getting up early.  Perhaps you could try this for the naps you can do at home?

BTW, I'm not a big paci fan--my lo doesn't use it at night or to go to sleep--but this is the best compromise I can think of to keep my sanity and his naps decent while keeping my 3 year old safe.

As for the 4am feed, it sounds like your lo is "stuck".  Have you tried going in about 10 minutes before four, rousing her slightly but not completely, and thus "restarting" her clock before she wakes up?  Do it on a night after some major cluster feeding and a dreamfeed so that real hunger is less of a possibility.  Let us know...

[clairejrogerson]

hi..thanks for all your replies!
our daily schedule is sthg like this:

*4am feed for Sienna(baby)
*830am into car to school
*9am feed+ baby rice for Sienna
*10am nap
*10.45/11am wakes but still tired and try to settle her with paci..sometimes works, sometimes not
*11.50am into car to pick up Jemima (3 1/2 year old)
*1pm+ baby rice  feed fro Sienna
*2pm nap
*2.30/45pm into car for Jemima's classes/playdates
*4pm feed+ baby rice for Sienna
*4.30/5pm leave classes+playdates approx
*5pm nap sometimes dependent on where we are
*6pm bath
*6.30pm feed+ bed - goes down by 7pm without a problem - in fact needs to be in bed by 7pm or gets into a real state
*11pm wake her for dream feed
and so it starts again.

in terms of restarting her schedule, how does that work? I have read about it but am unsure how to actually put it into practice? I would SO love to find a way as she is barely taking 60/70 mls of milk at the 4am feed..

Jemima will be at school 9am-3pm as of January so should make things alot easier re naps but I'm worried that by then we'll be in a cycle of 1 hour naps and so will be really hard to change that habit.

thanks for your help![/u]

[Meg's Mom]

I think the wake to sleep is a great idea for the 4am feed - see the announcement at the top of this forum.  I also added a sticky on the same topic - both go into great deal.

I have had a look at your schedule.  Boy #2 has a busy schedule!  I wanted to ask one more question:  The A times seem to change quite a bit: 1.5, 3.0, 2.25 or 3.0+  is there a reason for that?

Finally, 3-4month / 45min nap thing!  My LO started it then too - she is a reformed 45min napper :-).

From 0-3 months babies work on organizing their night sleep. From 3-6 they work on organizing their day sleep. What is happening is biological and is a normal blip.  Not that it makes you feel any better.

IME, you have 3 options (most outgrow it by 5-6mos):
-try to extend the short naps via wake to sleep or shh/pat
-just go with it and adjust EASY to fit the short naps
-very, very gradually extend A time - if your LO can handle it, but this is not always recommended as they get overtired so easily.
-wait until 4mos and extend A time when you move to 4hr EASY.

If i were you i would try extending nap 1 to 10.15 and pulling nap 2 back to 1.30.  The reason she maybe doing the 30min nap is by this point she is overtired and even if she wanted to sleep longer you need to wake her to leave for Jemima's classes/playdates.  So by starting it earlier both issues are addressed.

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions.

[clairejrogerson]

thanks for that..pulling the nap times back actually is a potential solution as her A time post-feed is pretty short usually  - she gets grumpy quite quickly - so I think I'll try it and see.

our schedule should calm a bit once my eldest hits her full days in school too making this transition a whole lot easier!